Mayo Forum

Pat Holmes and Noel Connelly Statement

(Oldest Posts First)

I know I may well be in a very small minority but I still fully support the players in insisting that their views are not just heard, but acted upon. If a manager or management team are making decisions that are poor, in the eyes of senior players, in respect of the overall objective, (SAM) then in all counties and indeed clubs, those senior players must do what they can address the issues. The Martin Conry report in its advice that the County Board take full control of all fundraising leaves more questions than answers, but surely this has now been sorted. I think the 2 lads were doing a fine job and should have been let continue, but It's not what I think that's matters, it's what the players think. Also, I think the charge that "outside influences" were at play is a bit odd, considering the controversial way Pat and Noel got the start with McStay, in many eyes, treated poorly. On one point, however, I agree 100% with the managers, and that is in relation to AOS going to Sunderland, as part of a TV program. There is far too much of these distractions tolerated in Mayo. If the players were under extra pressure this year as a result of these events, it is going to be multiplied in 2017. Perhaps Rochford can transform the emotion into an even greater effort and improve the team by a point or two.

martinjoe (Mayo) - Posts: 434 - 17/12/2016 20:16:43    1940697

Link

Player power destroys teams, I saw this in my club where players called the shots because their 'Daddy' was the manager, they refused to come off the pitch when playing poorly or injured, they had this idea that there is no team without me, what happened then was lads on the bench saw what was going on and knew they wouldn't get a game so they walked away from the club, eventually the big shots had to retire from playing but there was nobody behind then to take their place and the club had to forfeit games, management manage teams, players play, that's it, the job of the captain is to listen to players opinions and tell the manager the problems and it's up to him to ignore or heed of it

riverboys (Mayo) - Posts: 1389 - 17/12/2016 21:33:31    1940716

Link

Really depressing stuff.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 10417 - 18/12/2016 15:59:16    1940813

Link

Replying To riverboys:  "Player power destroys teams, I saw this in my club where players called the shots because their 'Daddy' was the manager, they refused to come off the pitch when playing poorly or injured, they had this idea that there is no team without me, what happened then was lads on the bench saw what was going on and knew they wouldn't get a game so they walked away from the club, eventually the big shots had to retire from playing but there was nobody behind then to take their place and the club had to forfeit games, management manage teams, players play, that's it, the job of the captain is to listen to players opinions and tell the manager the problems and it's up to him to ignore or heed of it"
The senior players, as far as we know, are for the most part All-Stars, some of them on many occasions. Surely they should have a big say. A lot of this has also to do with AOS and what his best position is. I understand that the new manager allows some big decisions to be called by the senior players, and while this probably cost them the All Ireland, it is still a welcome development.

martinjoe (Mayo) - Posts: 434 - 18/12/2016 18:40:45    1940837

Link

Posting here because the thread on the main page is going down the dubs vs Mayo arguments about this years all Ireland.
A lot of the posters from mayo and elsewhere talk about certain players, but the only one that is mentioned is Aidan o'shea. Who else was involved? Seamus O'Shea? Dillon? Higgins?
It's ok getting rid of managers as long as you got out and win. Mayo didn't. They didn't win Connaght. Maybe the players have to look within themselves......there's only some much managing and coaching that can be done. It's up to the players to get over the line. Are Mayo better now than under H/C, I'm not sure.

The_Fridge (Tyrone) - Posts: 1792 - 18/12/2016 21:06:40    1940862

Link

Replying To martinjoe:  "The senior players, as far as we know, are for the most part All-Stars, some of them on many occasions. Surely they should have a big say. A lot of this has also to do with AOS and what his best position is. I understand that the new manager allows some big decisions to be called by the senior players, and while this probably cost them the All Ireland, it is still a welcome development."
martinjoe if you believe that then you need to look at successful winning sides. The manager manages and the players play. Players cannot be seen to interfere in team selection and especially as widely as has been suggested.

lowballplease (Galway) - Posts: 911 - 19/12/2016 10:05:45    1940905

Link

Martinjoe - it's ridiculous to suggest senior players making big calls is a welcome move.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 10417 - 19/12/2016 10:28:45    1940909

Link

Replying To The_Fridge:  "Posting here because the thread on the main page is going down the dubs vs Mayo arguments about this years all Ireland.
A lot of the posters from mayo and elsewhere talk about certain players, but the only one that is mentioned is Aidan o'shea. Who else was involved? Seamus O'Shea? Dillon? Higgins?
It's ok getting rid of managers as long as you got out and win. Mayo didn't. They didn't win Connaght. Maybe the players have to look within themselves......there's only some much managing and coaching that can be done. It's up to the players to get over the line. Are Mayo better now than under H/C, I'm not sure."
I would say they were better under rochford, kepted with Dublin all the way in two games whereas they fell away in he replay last year. We don't know what might have happened if h and c were managers this year would there have been an improvement we don't know we will never know. The majority of us in Mayo had moved on before these articles turned up almost as if to unsettle everything again!

Spoddgy (Mayo) - Posts: 657 - 19/12/2016 12:43:52    1940944

Link

Replying To martinjoe:  "The senior players, as far as we know, are for the most part All-Stars, some of them on many occasions. Surely they should have a big say. A lot of this has also to do with AOS and what his best position is. I understand that the new manager allows some big decisions to be called by the senior players, and while this probably cost them the All Ireland, it is still a welcome development."
The term "Player Power" is often used to try to undermine attempts by the persons who are probably better placed than anyone else, the players, to improve the performance of the team. AOS is not just another player throwing in his tupence worth, he is an exceptional talent, who has won Allstar awards in 3 different positions, and excelled on the international stage. What is/are the reason/s that players should not have a say? Reading between the lines it would seem that AOS was keen to see COS starting. When he did start, as a result of the manager choosing him freely, or as a result of pressure from senior players, he proved to be the nearest thing we have seen to what many believe is our weakest like, a natural forward, but one who is not afraid to work very hard when not in possession.

martinjoe (Mayo) - Posts: 434 - 19/12/2016 13:17:05    1940951

Link

The players should do their talking on the mfield. Let the Manager manage the team. A O Shea, A Dillon and others are great players but have yet to perform to full ability on the big day (AL Final) when they have a Celtic Cross medal in their back pocket , then they can give their say in how things were run and people will listen, but till then do their talking on the field on the big days. We will remember them better if they have an AL medal than for what they are doing now.

culmore (None) - Posts: 1398 - 20/12/2016 10:54:45    1941102

Link

Replying To martinjoe:  "The term "Player Power" is often used to try to undermine attempts by the persons who are probably better placed than anyone else, the players, to improve the performance of the team. AOS is not just another player throwing in his tupence worth, he is an exceptional talent, who has won Allstar awards in 3 different positions, and excelled on the international stage. What is/are the reason/s that players should not have a say? Reading between the lines it would seem that AOS was keen to see COS starting. When he did start, as a result of the manager choosing him freely, or as a result of pressure from senior players, he proved to be the nearest thing we have seen to what many believe is our weakest like, a natural forward, but one who is not afraid to work very hard when not in possession."
MartinJoe - Aidan O'Shea would be much more use to Mayo if he performed to his potential when it mattered most. His performance level's in All Ireland Semi's and Finals have been well below par.
All Stars aren't worth anything to this Mayo team.
The international game - would you cop onto yourself. It's irrelevant when compared to Mayo's quest for an All Ireland.
As for your comments on Conor O'Shea - I don't see him as being good enough for senior inter co football.

The reality is that players shouldn't have an input into team selection. It's a managers job.

pdempsey (Mayo) - Posts: 1313 - 20/12/2016 10:57:40    1941104

Link

Replying To martinjoe:  "The term "Player Power" is often used to try to undermine attempts by the persons who are probably better placed than anyone else, the players, to improve the performance of the team. AOS is not just another player throwing in his tupence worth, he is an exceptional talent, who has won Allstar awards in 3 different positions, and excelled on the international stage. What is/are the reason/s that players should not have a say? Reading between the lines it would seem that AOS was keen to see COS starting. When he did start, as a result of the manager choosing him freely, or as a result of pressure from senior players, he proved to be the nearest thing we have seen to what many believe is our weakest like, a natural forward, but one who is not afraid to work very hard when not in possession."
what international stage? The challenge match v australia or the american football?

lowballplease (Galway) - Posts: 911 - 20/12/2016 15:54:11    1941193

Link

Its embarrassing being from mayo and people still coming out and saying what Holmes/Connelly did was wrong. They were 100% in the right. Obviously people outside the county on this site don't know what is going on in the Mayo dressing room. However there are people here who go to every mayo game and obviously know nothing about football and are blind to whats going on.
Firstly its obvious from the article that players got david clarke dropped. If this is true then Rochford may not be up to the job in my opinion.
Secondly i have zero pity for the players. The players who sat back and let this go on knowing how wrong it was shows their mentality and mindset. The are clearly just happy to wear the jersey and get the bag and be part of the setup. Those who did nothing are as bad as those who did.
Mayo people are the laughing stock of the country and rightfully so, and i am a mayo man. I wont ever go to another Mayo game again.

Mayo4sam1983 (Mayo) - Posts: 3 - 20/12/2016 16:22:01    1941198

Link

Replying To lowballplease:  "what international stage? The challenge match v australia or the american football?"
I am also struggling to see where he got his 3rd All Star in 3rd different position when he only received two?

Anyway a bit of a mess really what has happened but I don't blame the two lads they were shafted big time last year in favour of a more professional management team and to supposedly better the team, Has this happened? I personally from the outside looking in think Mayo have gone back under Rochford.

They had a poor league this year and just avoided relegation, They lost their provincial crown getting beaten for first time in years in Connacht and then stumbled over Fermanagh, Kildare,Westmeath, Tyrone and Tipperary. Against Fermanagh and Tyrone especially could have been beaten on both days only for a refereeing error awarding the peno and Tyrone shooting themselves in the foot kicking so many wides. Against Dublin they never got into a winning position like they did in 2015 and It has to be said Dublin were a lot poorer in 2016. The defensive plan was put in place by H&C when they deployed Moran in it during 2015 so what exactly has Rochford improved? This is not a rant at him but Mayo fans seem to think they players were dead right and they have improved, I see the total opposite. Majority of Mayo players played worse in 2016 too, DOC,COC and AOS all had pretty poor years in comparison to 2015.

Cuckoosinging (Roscommon) - Posts: 992 - 20/12/2016 16:42:02    1941209

Link

Replying To pdempsey:  "MartinJoe - Aidan O'Shea would be much more use to Mayo if he performed to his potential when it mattered most. His performance level's in All Ireland Semi's and Finals have been well below par.
All Stars aren't worth anything to this Mayo team.
The international game - would you cop onto yourself. It's irrelevant when compared to Mayo's quest for an All Ireland.
As for your comments on Conor O'Shea - I don't see him as being good enough for senior inter co football.

The reality is that players shouldn't have an input into team selection. It's a managers job."
HI all.
If Mayo are to win an All Ireland the Manager has to have full control of the team and situations.The players need to consentrate
on playing and remain focused on Winning the All Ireland.Point in case is with ourselves in Donegal Players having to much say and
doing what they wanted until Jim Mc Guinness arrived.you either played by his rules or you were not on the county panel end of storey.
Players done what they were asked or (told) and changed their attidute and sucessess followed as we had our most sucessful period in our whole history.Jim stood up and dealt with situations and with Kevin Cassidy been the high profile player to feel the wrath of what jim considered stepping out of line in 2012 in which Donegal went on to win the ALL ireland..
Mayo need strong Management

ballwinners (Donegal) - Posts: 9 - 20/12/2016 17:22:53    1941229

Link

Replying To ballwinners:  "HI all.
If Mayo are to win an All Ireland the Manager has to have full control of the team and situations.The players need to consentrate
on playing and remain focused on Winning the All Ireland.Point in case is with ourselves in Donegal Players having to much say and
doing what they wanted until Jim Mc Guinness arrived.you either played by his rules or you were not on the county panel end of storey.
Players done what they were asked or (told) and changed their attidute and sucessess followed as we had our most sucessful period in our whole history.Jim stood up and dealt with situations and with Kevin Cassidy been the high profile player to feel the wrath of what jim considered stepping out of line in 2012 in which Donegal went on to win the ALL ireland..
Mayo need strong Management"
Vincent Hogan called it right in Mondays indo. Holmes and Connelly had every right to do that interview with Breheny. The players mentioned need to analyse their stats in the All Ireland finals they have played in. Players as part of team selection is a joke. Are Mayo players professional in their approach and attitude? We often hear top county players claim that they are as professional as their Premier League counterparts. Point of information for the top Gaelic players in Cork and Mayo...........Shankly,Paisley,Busby,Clough,Revie,Ferguson were top class professional managers who never allowed players to pick the team,they also got rid of top players who disagreed with their management style. Thats professional.

Brinsley Swartz (Mayo) - Posts: 2225 - 21/12/2016 11:54:33    1941390

Link

Replying To ballwinners:  "HI all.
If Mayo are to win an All Ireland the Manager has to have full control of the team and situations.The players need to consentrate
on playing and remain focused on Winning the All Ireland.Point in case is with ourselves in Donegal Players having to much say and
doing what they wanted until Jim Mc Guinness arrived.you either played by his rules or you were not on the county panel end of storey.
Players done what they were asked or (told) and changed their attidute and sucessess followed as we had our most sucessful period in our whole history.Jim stood up and dealt with situations and with Kevin Cassidy been the high profile player to feel the wrath of what jim considered stepping out of line in 2012 in which Donegal went on to win the ALL ireland..
Mayo need strong Management"
Aggree whole hearty with your comments.
Managers manage and these players should not be getting ahead of themselves with their opinions. There was never controversy in Kerry with the three o Shea brothers or Tyrone with the Kavanagh's and that's why they walk around with all irelands because they never got in the way of management.

Crossgaa (Mayo) - Posts: 548 - 21/12/2016 17:22:15    1941479

Link

Replying To Cuckoosinging:  "I am also struggling to see where he got his 3rd All Star in 3rd different position when he only received two?

Anyway a bit of a mess really what has happened but I don't blame the two lads they were shafted big time last year in favour of a more professional management team and to supposedly better the team, Has this happened? I personally from the outside looking in think Mayo have gone back under Rochford.

They had a poor league this year and just avoided relegation, They lost their provincial crown getting beaten for first time in years in Connacht and then stumbled over Fermanagh, Kildare,Westmeath, Tyrone and Tipperary. Against Fermanagh and Tyrone especially could have been beaten on both days only for a refereeing error awarding the peno and Tyrone shooting themselves in the foot kicking so many wides. Against Dublin they never got into a winning position like they did in 2015 and It has to be said Dublin were a lot poorer in 2016. The defensive plan was put in place by H&C when they deployed Moran in it during 2015 so what exactly has Rochford improved? This is not a rant at him but Mayo fans seem to think they players were dead right and they have improved, I see the total opposite. Majority of Mayo players played worse in 2016 too, DOC,COC and AOS all had pretty poor years in comparison to 2015."
" then stumbled over Fermanagh, Kildare,Westmeath, Tyrone and Tipperary "

That was some stumble!

unclegerry (Mayo) - Posts: 1204 - 04/01/2017 14:51:54    1943045

Link