Dublin Forum

Do The Rest Of The Country Have A Point ? Where Do You Stand?

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Replying To clooney:  "Dublin can only field 26 on Match day same as everyone else they have got there House in order same as Kilkenny { Population 100,000} did in Hurling.

Of Course Dublin has advantages in terms of Population but it population was the main criteria for success then Dublin Cork & Limerick would win most All Irelands in both codes

If the GAA don't put in Coaches the IRFU & FAI will do so.

The GAA is in the entertainment business & moving championship matches from Croak Park will deny them millions that is needed for can be used for coaching kids.

Dublin happen to have a special team right now but Mayo & Kerry have ran them close sooner or later they will get beaten.

IMO the GAA & Dublin are lucky to have this Dublin Team as they are brilliant role models for the youth no bad publicity now."
Yes and to put it into context Swords alone has a population greater than 100,000.
It would be naive of anyone to think Avonmore in Kilkenny or Kerry group in Kerry werent giving those great teams the resources they needed to succeed.
as highlighted on the Sunday Gave per registered player Dublin is getting 4 to 6 times more funding that other counties.
Pat Gilroy's argument was it needed more funding between the canals to develop the game, and many hundreds of thousands in dublin weren't playing the game, this may be the case but many of the same people hes talking about unfortunately need human basic needs first sport second, he knows this too.
If the GAA were to take that approach based on population we should be channeling millions into London and New York as millions of people there arent playing the game either, and both teams doing poorly.


Look if youd like to reply please keep it to the topic, please dont make it personal, turf muncher nonsense etc.
And before I get nailed no offence intended to the disadvantaged areas of Dublin needing basic needs first, sadly this is a fact in our society today, not just Dublin but countrywide.

club51 (Mayo) - Posts: 343 - 08/12/2020 09:52:37    2320112

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Hi all, Donegal man in peace here. JoeSoap beat me to it with an awful lot of what he said. A lot of the issues aren't really within the GAA's remit to resolve. Better broadband and infrastructure west of the Shannon would hopefully mean that more of our youth aren't obliged to make the move down to the Big Smoke or even further afield. Alas, not something that can happen overnight unfortunately.

I think the idea of splitting Dublin up is ludicrous and pie in the sky stuff. Amalgamating weaker counties isn't a runner for me either. The GAA thrives on parish and inter county rivalry. Diluting that would undermine some of the essence of what the GAA is all about.

It's not always transferrable but if you look at other sports, take Serie A for example. Juventus have won about 8 in a row titles. You'd get laughed out of the room by the Agnelli's at any suggestion of breaking them up! In sport there will always be winners and losers, how many teams can realistically win the Premier League? About 4 currently. You could argue the same in the GAA. Like it or not, Dublin, Kerry, Mayo and a few others like ourselves, Tyrone and Galway genuinely would feel that given a decent crack they could win the All Ireland. Cork and Meath should be in that mix as well.

I feel that something needs to be done to help weaker counties, more funding certainly. But it isn't as straight-forward as just throwing money at it. You need intelligent qualified people, process driven, who can help the weaker counties improve structures from everything to youth development, S&C, nutrition etc. I would suggest that the GAA employ expert consultants regionally. Task forces or whatever label you want to put on them. Give the players the same tools to succeed that have worked so well in Dublin.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 7163 - 08/12/2020 15:41:26    2320287

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Replying To Lockjaw:  "Hi all, Donegal man in peace here. JoeSoap beat me to it with an awful lot of what he said. A lot of the issues aren't really within the GAA's remit to resolve. Better broadband and infrastructure west of the Shannon would hopefully mean that more of our youth aren't obliged to make the move down to the Big Smoke or even further afield. Alas, not something that can happen overnight unfortunately.

I think the idea of splitting Dublin up is ludicrous and pie in the sky stuff. Amalgamating weaker counties isn't a runner for me either. The GAA thrives on parish and inter county rivalry. Diluting that would undermine some of the essence of what the GAA is all about.

It's not always transferrable but if you look at other sports, take Serie A for example. Juventus have won about 8 in a row titles. You'd get laughed out of the room by the Agnelli's at any suggestion of breaking them up! In sport there will always be winners and losers, how many teams can realistically win the Premier League? About 4 currently. You could argue the same in the GAA. Like it or not, Dublin, Kerry, Mayo and a few others like ourselves, Tyrone and Galway genuinely would feel that given a decent crack they could win the All Ireland. Cork and Meath should be in that mix as well.

I feel that something needs to be done to help weaker counties, more funding certainly. But it isn't as straight-forward as just throwing money at it. You need intelligent qualified people, process driven, who can help the weaker counties improve structures from everything to youth development, S&C, nutrition etc. I would suggest that the GAA employ expert consultants regionally. Task forces or whatever label you want to put on them. Give the players the same tools to succeed that have worked so well in Dublin."
What about the system that the Ladies follow? A Senior, Intermediate and Junior Championship. Would teams benefit from playing in a championship that genuinely had a chance of winning? Would young players coming through be more incentivised if they thought they could get a big day out in Croker in an All Ireland - be it Intermediate or Junior. You could play the intermediate and junior finals on the same day - I am sure it would attract a huge crowd! The GAA could then focus on funding those championships and rewarding the finalists from the final gates etc. I suspect sponsors would be very happy to get their name on a jersey of a team competing in a final in Croke Park - so sponsors might get more out of it! Winners could be promoted and you could have relegation play off games etc. just like there is a club level!

Group 1 could contain the teams you mention above - Dublin, Kerry, Mayo, Donegal, Tyrone, Galway, etc....

ASaminthehand (Meath) - Posts: 320 - 08/12/2020 16:36:34    2320323

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Replying To Lockjaw:  "Hi all, Donegal man in peace here. JoeSoap beat me to it with an awful lot of what he said. A lot of the issues aren't really within the GAA's remit to resolve. Better broadband and infrastructure west of the Shannon would hopefully mean that more of our youth aren't obliged to make the move down to the Big Smoke or even further afield. Alas, not something that can happen overnight unfortunately.

I think the idea of splitting Dublin up is ludicrous and pie in the sky stuff. Amalgamating weaker counties isn't a runner for me either. The GAA thrives on parish and inter county rivalry. Diluting that would undermine some of the essence of what the GAA is all about.

It's not always transferrable but if you look at other sports, take Serie A for example. Juventus have won about 8 in a row titles. You'd get laughed out of the room by the Agnelli's at any suggestion of breaking them up! In sport there will always be winners and losers, how many teams can realistically win the Premier League? About 4 currently. You could argue the same in the GAA. Like it or not, Dublin, Kerry, Mayo and a few others like ourselves, Tyrone and Galway genuinely would feel that given a decent crack they could win the All Ireland. Cork and Meath should be in that mix as well.

I feel that something needs to be done to help weaker counties, more funding certainly. But it isn't as straight-forward as just throwing money at it. You need intelligent qualified people, process driven, who can help the weaker counties improve structures from everything to youth development, S&C, nutrition etc. I would suggest that the GAA employ expert consultants regionally. Task forces or whatever label you want to put on them. Give the players the same tools to succeed that have worked so well in Dublin."
Not sure you can really make comparisons with professional soccer to be fair. Players can still do well and earn big money moves to bigger clubs, so their personal achievements and earnings are still in their own hands.
Some clubs have a business model of selling players and that is how they operate, while players are not limited to being from a certain area - it isnt really the same thing.

To any dublin fan Id say put yourself in the other peoples shoes for a minute. What would your honest feeling be if you were from a midsize county in leinster and the gaa funded some - already powerful - county to being miles ahead of you and everyone else and they start dominating all round them. They have players who have never lost a single game, their one time star man tells of not even being able to make a v b matches. Then the gaa turn around and tell you that it was their volunteers all along that were making the difference, and so by extension, your own efforts in your club are what is to blame, not the cash or the coaches or the home advantage etc etc . Then their ex-manager goes on the tele and says that the solution is that everyone else should join up instead. If you are any ways fair-minded and self-aware, you will start to see the picture.

Many say, 'well it isnt dublins fault' when they hear this kind of argument. But it isnt the other county's fault either is it?
What is going to happen next is that people will start asking if dublin's success is any ways meaningful and that is harsh on the players, many of whom are great role models for the entire country. But that is just the reality of the situation, and while it is harsh on them, what has preceeded is even harsher on those who have missed out because of the gaa deciding it wanted all the dublin public's money it could get. Think mattie donnelly, peter harte, ryan mchugh, lee keegan, keith higgins - guys just as good as those dublin lads who will probably never get an all ireland medal because of it. Those are the lads who have given the most and lost the most because of it.

HardCase (USA) - Posts: 53 - 10/12/2020 15:18:42    2321068

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Replying To HardCase:  "Not sure you can really make comparisons with professional soccer to be fair. Players can still do well and earn big money moves to bigger clubs, so their personal achievements and earnings are still in their own hands.
Some clubs have a business model of selling players and that is how they operate, while players are not limited to being from a certain area - it isnt really the same thing.

To any dublin fan Id say put yourself in the other peoples shoes for a minute. What would your honest feeling be if you were from a midsize county in leinster and the gaa funded some - already powerful - county to being miles ahead of you and everyone else and they start dominating all round them. They have players who have never lost a single game, their one time star man tells of not even being able to make a v b matches. Then the gaa turn around and tell you that it was their volunteers all along that were making the difference, and so by extension, your own efforts in your club are what is to blame, not the cash or the coaches or the home advantage etc etc . Then their ex-manager goes on the tele and says that the solution is that everyone else should join up instead. If you are any ways fair-minded and self-aware, you will start to see the picture.

Many say, 'well it isnt dublins fault' when they hear this kind of argument. But it isnt the other county's fault either is it?
What is going to happen next is that people will start asking if dublin's success is any ways meaningful and that is harsh on the players, many of whom are great role models for the entire country. But that is just the reality of the situation, and while it is harsh on them, what has preceeded is even harsher on those who have missed out because of the gaa deciding it wanted all the dublin public's money it could get. Think mattie donnelly, peter harte, ryan mchugh, lee keegan, keith higgins - guys just as good as those dublin lads who will probably never get an all ireland medal because of it. Those are the lads who have given the most and lost the most because of it."
Hows it going Ewan ? :-)

superbluedub (Dublin) - Posts: 2354 - 11/12/2020 09:55:45    2321269

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Replying To HardCase:  "Not sure you can really make comparisons with professional soccer to be fair. Players can still do well and earn big money moves to bigger clubs, so their personal achievements and earnings are still in their own hands.
Some clubs have a business model of selling players and that is how they operate, while players are not limited to being from a certain area - it isnt really the same thing.

To any dublin fan Id say put yourself in the other peoples shoes for a minute. What would your honest feeling be if you were from a midsize county in leinster and the gaa funded some - already powerful - county to being miles ahead of you and everyone else and they start dominating all round them. They have players who have never lost a single game, their one time star man tells of not even being able to make a v b matches. Then the gaa turn around and tell you that it was their volunteers all along that were making the difference, and so by extension, your own efforts in your club are what is to blame, not the cash or the coaches or the home advantage etc etc . Then their ex-manager goes on the tele and says that the solution is that everyone else should join up instead. If you are any ways fair-minded and self-aware, you will start to see the picture.

Many say, 'well it isnt dublins fault' when they hear this kind of argument. But it isnt the other county's fault either is it?
What is going to happen next is that people will start asking if dublin's success is any ways meaningful and that is harsh on the players, many of whom are great role models for the entire country. But that is just the reality of the situation, and while it is harsh on them, what has preceeded is even harsher on those who have missed out because of the gaa deciding it wanted all the dublin public's money it could get. Think mattie donnelly, peter harte, ryan mchugh, lee keegan, keith higgins - guys just as good as those dublin lads who will probably never get an all ireland medal because of it. Those are the lads who have given the most and lost the most because of it."
Yeah true enough it's maybe not as valid an argument comparing pro sports with the GAA.
I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but my point is that it's not just as black and white as giving so-called weaker counties a big pile of money and hoping things improve. There seems to be this big push to split Dublin or not give them any funding at all. It needs careful consideration & a genuine will to address the inequality.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 7163 - 11/12/2020 15:50:16    2321381

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Replying To ASaminthehand:  "What about the system that the Ladies follow? A Senior, Intermediate and Junior Championship. Would teams benefit from playing in a championship that genuinely had a chance of winning? Would young players coming through be more incentivised if they thought they could get a big day out in Croker in an All Ireland - be it Intermediate or Junior. You could play the intermediate and junior finals on the same day - I am sure it would attract a huge crowd! The GAA could then focus on funding those championships and rewarding the finalists from the final gates etc. I suspect sponsors would be very happy to get their name on a jersey of a team competing in a final in Croke Park - so sponsors might get more out of it! Winners could be promoted and you could have relegation play off games etc. just like there is a club level!

Group 1 could contain the teams you mention above - Dublin, Kerry, Mayo, Donegal, Tyrone, Galway, etc...."
Don't see that happening,, yes Croker is Croker but playing on front of 70 000 empty seats is not my idea of a big day out. Its just me personally but I'd rather play on a packed smaller venue.

Intermediate or junior all Irelands will not receive any promotion. I mentioned in an earlier thread that most extra media coverage outside of the Sam Maguire Cup will go to the women's game in the coming years.

There's only so much hype to go around.

And splitting up the all Ireland will not stop Dublin winning them.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 276 - 11/12/2020 21:58:51    2321478

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Replying To Lockjaw:  "Yeah true enough it's maybe not as valid an argument comparing pro sports with the GAA.
I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but my point is that it's not just as black and white as giving so-called weaker counties a big pile of money and hoping things improve. There seems to be this big push to split Dublin or not give them any funding at all. It needs careful consideration & a genuine will to address the inequality."
No one has even identified the problem not alone addressed a solution. Dublin GAA will never agree to a split unless its it part of a comprehensive analysis of problems. You cant stop funding to one county because one code is successful, how the hell do you do thst without ending up in court! Whatever happens it has to be agreed by Dublin

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4548 - 13/12/2020 17:13:44    2321951

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Replying To arock:  "No one has even identified the problem not alone addressed a solution. Dublin GAA will never agree to a split unless its it part of a comprehensive analysis of problems. You cant stop funding to one county because one code is successful, how the hell do you do thst without ending up in court! Whatever happens it has to be agreed by Dublin"
The problem has been identified though. The funding can be, and has been, measured exactly to dublins run of success. They are on record to say that they see themselves as more of a province when getting funding.
I agree that you cant stop funding, but then you probably cant start pumping funding into one team just because they are a top 4 team rather than a top 1 team. Yet, that is the position we now find ourselves in, and amazingly, nobody went to court...
The truth is it doesnt need to be agreed to by dublin, if it comes down to it. Being a county, they get the same vote as leitrim or anyone else. If the dubs keep up the attitude of, basically, 'f the lot of youz', they will just alienate the rest f the country. Nobody is going to just stay there and keep taking kicks. Ask yourself, would dublin do it?

The bottom line is dublin are talking out of both sides of their mouths a bit. They want to be a province when funds are spoken about, but when they are competing they want to be a county. At some stage, someone is going to say, you cant have it both ways. Is it smart to wait for that to happen?

HardCase (USA) - Posts: 53 - 17/12/2020 19:56:32    2323268

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Replying To Lockjaw:  "Hi all, Donegal man in peace here. JoeSoap beat me to it with an awful lot of what he said. A lot of the issues aren't really within the GAA's remit to resolve. Better broadband and infrastructure west of the Shannon would hopefully mean that more of our youth aren't obliged to make the move down to the Big Smoke or even further afield. Alas, not something that can happen overnight unfortunately.

I think the idea of splitting Dublin up is ludicrous and pie in the sky stuff. Amalgamating weaker counties isn't a runner for me either. The GAA thrives on parish and inter county rivalry. Diluting that would undermine some of the essence of what the GAA is all about.

It's not always transferrable but if you look at other sports, take Serie A for example. Juventus have won about 8 in a row titles. You'd get laughed out of the room by the Agnelli's at any suggestion of breaking them up! In sport there will always be winners and losers, how many teams can realistically win the Premier League? About 4 currently. You could argue the same in the GAA. Like it or not, Dublin, Kerry, Mayo and a few others like ourselves, Tyrone and Galway genuinely would feel that given a decent crack they could win the All Ireland. Cork and Meath should be in that mix as well.

I feel that something needs to be done to help weaker counties, more funding certainly. But it isn't as straight-forward as just throwing money at it. You need intelligent qualified people, process driven, who can help the weaker counties improve structures from everything to youth development, S&C, nutrition etc. I would suggest that the GAA employ expert consultants regionally. Task forces or whatever label you want to put on them. Give the players the same tools to succeed that have worked so well in Dublin."
" You could argue the same in the GAA. Like it or not, Dublin, Kerry, Mayo and a few others like ourselves, Tyrone and Galway genuinely would feel that given a decent crack they could win the All Ireland. Cork and Meath should be in that mix as well. I feel that something needs to be done to help weaker counties, more funding certainly. But it isn't as straight-forward as just throwing money at it. You need intelligent qualified people, process driven, who can help the weaker counties improve structures from everything to youth development, S&C, nutrition etc. I would suggest that the GAA employ expert consultants regionally. Task forces or whatever label you want to put on them. Give the players the same tools to succeed that have worked so well in Dublin"

This.

Splitting Dublin or even removing Dublin completely from the argument won't help Leitrim or Sligo win Connact, or Cork win Munster, and big bad Dublin certainly didn't hinder Cavan from winning this year's Ulster.

A lot of people have, over the last few years, decried the provincial championships as being dead (except Ulster perhaps) and that they should be scrapped. How about making them stronger, as Lockjaw alludes to? It would then feed into making a better All-Ireland championship.

dubdec99 (Dublin) - Posts: 174 - 18/12/2020 14:46:12    2323445

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Replying To dubdec99:  "" You could argue the same in the GAA. Like it or not, Dublin, Kerry, Mayo and a few others like ourselves, Tyrone and Galway genuinely would feel that given a decent crack they could win the All Ireland. Cork and Meath should be in that mix as well. I feel that something needs to be done to help weaker counties, more funding certainly. But it isn't as straight-forward as just throwing money at it. You need intelligent qualified people, process driven, who can help the weaker counties improve structures from everything to youth development, S&C, nutrition etc. I would suggest that the GAA employ expert consultants regionally. Task forces or whatever label you want to put on them. Give the players the same tools to succeed that have worked so well in Dublin"

This.

Splitting Dublin or even removing Dublin completely from the argument won't help Leitrim or Sligo win Connact, or Cork win Munster, and big bad Dublin certainly didn't hinder Cavan from winning this year's Ulster.

A lot of people have, over the last few years, decried the provincial championships as being dead (except Ulster perhaps) and that they should be scrapped. How about making them stronger, as Lockjaw alludes to? It would then feed into making a better All-Ireland championship."
Well said Dec

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 1439 - 18/12/2020 20:40:39    2323515

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Just popped over to wish you all the best tomorrow evening.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 1439 - 18/12/2020 20:41:34    2323516

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Replying To CiarraiMick:  "Just popped over to wish you all the best tomorrow evening."
Fair play Mick, much appreciated.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 3906 - 19/12/2020 12:00:31    2323690

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Replying To CiarraiMick:  "Just popped over to wish you all the best tomorrow evening."
Thanks Mick

dubdec99 (Dublin) - Posts: 174 - 19/12/2020 12:56:31    2323716

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Replying To avonali:  "That was a disgusting post. The hatred of all things Dublin is shocking. That was a Meath fan who is notorious for his anti-Dublin outpourings. .
Over on the Kerry forum Dub fans are openly referred to as 'The Hun'-you can guess the rather simplistic association of all things Dublin with something that is not quite Irish.. Individual players are called names that don't bear repeating. It's only 3 or 4 of them : most Kerry folk are fair and you'd hate to generalize. If you argue with them they resort to snide remarks and insults. It's utterly pathetic but what can you do?"
. If you argue with them they resort to snide remarks and insults. It's utterly pathetic but what can you do?"

Not all of us, you'll find I posted on the Dublin page congratulating the few that have reached eight medals.

I have often said, yes that a divide and imbalance exists.. but you'll also find me quoting in several occasions that this divide and imbalance is not the players fault - so don't generalize...

Horsebox77 (Kerry) - Posts: 5068 - 20/12/2020 22:11:28    2324871

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I would hate to see Dublin broken up , there is no better feeling over coming the odds and beating Dublin in their own back garden .

Fair play to Dublin they have taken the money and invested it very wisely and are successful in most grades , one would wonder about the process being made at minor level and in hurling though , but all in all very well done.

The real bad guy here is the GAA themselves, they have built a stadium that our traditional game cannot support i.e. only Dublin can provide the attendance to secure Croke Park's financial future, it has created the Dublin monster but unlike the scottish league which is a two horse race , the GAA is just show jumping now because the GAA have failed to invest /plan for a rival for Dublin .

Unless a real plan similar to the "blue wave" is put in place for the rest of the country the game and attendances in croke park will decline

ballyshannon (Donegal) - Posts: 153 - 19/01/2021 13:04:02    2328055

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