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Div 2 Final - Down v Roscommon

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Lets be honest barring we get turned over at probably 1-20 against London our champi8onship starts june 20th against Sligo Ild imagine we are miles off championship mode at this moment compared to down who have to hit the ground running
I would be delighted if we won but it would delighted more if I seen a good performance from the likes of Mark Healy, Murray, Donie Smith, Kevin Higgins, Donie Shine, Compton lads who got run outs in the league but did nt feature overly I would love to see all these lads properly tested in a match to see where they stand coming into championship

OhtobeARossie (Roscommon) - Posts: 1475 - 23/04/2015 17:48:43    1716832

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Does anyone know the rules surrounding the 3 black cards = 1 match ban? For example, Kevin McKernan is one black card away from a suspension, does this stay with him for the rest of the season? Or, is he given a clean slate after a certain amount of games without receiving any black cards?

As for the starting 15, I wouldn't be surprised to see a few changes from the Laois game. Perhaps Conor Garvey and/or Aidan Carr to start? Two much required physical presences. I would certainly start Mooney in midfield again, alongside Peter Turley. His fielding was mistimed the last day, but he will get it right with time.

MourneArmy (Down) - Posts: 1787 - 23/04/2015 21:31:45    1716908

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No change in the team from Laois game.

I think McCorry thinks he has found his strongest 15. Barring injuries or suspension to others, and assuming things go reasonably well on Sunday, I don't think Garvey, Carr or Fitzpatrick will be starting in Derry.

spiritof1991 (Down) - Posts: 693 - 24/04/2015 11:24:03    1717046

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Suspensions

At all levels a Black Card results in a player missing the remainder of the game.

Additionally at Senior Inter County Level:

3 x Black Cards = 1 Game suspension

3 x Double Yellow Cards = 1 Game suspension

3 x Yellow followed by a Black Card = 1 Game suspension

OR

A Combination of all three (totalling 3) = 1 Game suspension

Only in senior inter-county league and championship games within the same year.

At All Other Levels:

3 x Double Yellows within 48 weeks = 1 game suspension

3 x Yellow followed by a Black card within 48 weeks = 1 game suspension

OR

A combination of both (totalling 3) within 48 weeks = 1 game suspension
The 1 game suspension is applicable to the next game in the Competition in which the third ordering-off occurred at all levels, except Senior inter-county League and Championship.

Deliberate v Accidental Fouls

A Card shall be issued only where the Infraction is deemed by the Referee to have been deliberate and not accidental.

neverafree (Down) - Posts: 456 - 24/04/2015 13:25:59    1717109

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"At All Other Levels:"

Who's going to count that at club level? Impractical rule.

GeorgyBoy (Down) - Posts: 37 - 24/04/2015 13:44:42    1717120

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Interestingly as we approach Sunday the odds are shortening on Roscommon and drifting for Down. Both teams even money on PP at the minute! So there must be a few in Roscommon or elsewhere who feel Roscommon will take the game seriously! I thought McCorry wouldn't change the team too much from the last day against Laois. I expect to see Caolan moved out to the middle after a while. In the league game Arthur's introduction led to a goal and a point so its good to know we can rely on him as an impact sub. Anyway great to get to Croker. An Dun abu

neverafree (Down) - Posts: 456 - 24/04/2015 13:52:00    1717123

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We were 11/8 against down before u21 semifinal which I presume paddy power believed we would win and be missing the 2 starters Smith and murtagh as well as Harney and Compton prominent subs had we beaten tyrone they as was the case last year in division 3 final would have been definitely not involved.
Right now having lost to tyrone no one knows which if any will be involved definitely missing is seanie mc dermott red carded
So that's why it's even both sides now it's not that there's money going on it's that no one knows the Rossie line out or even subs.

OhtobeARossie (Roscommon) - Posts: 1475 - 24/04/2015 15:55:56    1717176

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neverafree
County: Down
Posts: 433

Thanks for that!

MourneArmy (Down) - Posts: 1787 - 24/04/2015 16:18:30    1717191

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OhtobeARossie
County: Roscommon
Posts: 346

1717176 We were 11/8 against down before u21 semifinal which I presume paddy power believed we would win and be missing the 2 starters Smith and murtagh as well as Harney and Compton prominent subs had we beaten tyrone they as was the case last year in division 3 final would have been definitely not involved.
Right now having lost to tyrone no one knows which if any will be involved definitely missing is seanie mc dermott red carded
So that's why it's even both sides now it's not that there's money going on it's that no one knows the Rossie line out or even subs.

Not so sure about that; Paddy Power would have used their 'experts' to price up or set the betting for this game initially. As more money is placed on Roscommon than Down in this case, Paddy Power will move to reduce their liability should Roscommon win, by reducing the odds on Roscommon and increasing their odds on Down(thus attracting Down bets)That's how bookmakers work.
In the case of Roscommon and Paddy Power I feel that the initial price up 11/8 was too generous towards Roscommon. They beat Down convincingly in the league. I realise the final margin was only four points but had Roscommon taken their goal chances in the first half it could have been 10+. Bar that red card their is no significant personnel change on either side Not saying Roscommon will win just that the market has decided they have a much better chance than the 'experts' at Paddy Power initially thought.
John Evans is an astute manager. Like a lot of managers they like to play down any hype and that is just what he is doing. But you can bet your couple of Euro (if you haven't already!) that the Rossie's will be coming out all guns blazing.

neverafree (Down) - Posts: 456 - 24/04/2015 17:31:27    1717220

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Disappointing performance yesterday. In truth, I feel most of our league performances have been disappointing, and disjointed. Granted it is going to take the management team time to get their ideas and philosophies across to the players, who looked clueless, but there really is no excuse for the lack of intensity, lateral and often inaccurate hand-passing, poor kick passing and at times extremely poor ball handling. I have heard a lot of Down folk saying that Jim McCorry's training consists of a lot of ball work. On the evidence I have seen throughout the league I find this hard to believe. Tactically, our system is no where near the levels we were under James McCartan. However, our defense is a hell of a lot better (despite conceding a high tally yesterday).

All-in-all I'm delighted with promotion, and I would've bit your arm off in January if I was told we would gain promotion but lose the league final. I'm sure we all remember what happened in the championship the last time we lost a division 2 final in 2010...

An Dún Abú

MourneArmy (Down) - Posts: 1787 - 27/04/2015 13:02:08    1717932

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Yeah disappointing but no great surprise. a few might mention Polands injury just before throw in and the harsh sending off etc etc etc but in truth we are a long way back.
There are a few positives. Collins has been a real find at corner back and we have one of the best players in Ireland in Kevin McKernan. Caolan Mooney is obviously not the finished article but will develop into a top player.
The bigger picture is very worrying and cant be denied. We haven't won a provincial title in 21 years and for a county of our history and traditions this has been disastrous. Strength in depth is very poor. We are physically too small. we haven't competed at minor level in 10 years so the quality hasn't been coming through. The attempts at establishing a centre of excellence like that in Tyrone and Derry have been a disaster and cost us a fortune. OK we have won promotion to div 1 but what does this really amount to? A few tankings next year I fear.
Time for the folk at the top table in Down GAA to take a long hard look at themselves!

lethaldrill (Down) - Posts: 18 - 27/04/2015 13:44:08    1717972

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It was the worst Down team i have ever saw and I have seen some bad ones they are years behind the top 6 teams in every way, on the pitch, on the sideline, and also at board level, WHAT DO WE DO??? I ain't got a clue how to start to put all right.

nosides (Down) - Posts: 236 - 27/04/2015 17:00:37    1718111

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As usual nossides you are the first to put the boot in after a defeat. Bit surprised at some of the other negativity though.

Can I remind you that Down have had 2 really good teams in their entire history, the early 6o's and the early 90's. The 40's & 50's and 70's and 80's were just as barren as the 00's and 10's. We have no right to expect to beat all before us year in year out. Down are not Kerry or Dublin.

Can I remind everyone that we played most of the game with 14 men ? (Again)

We also lost playmaker Poland just before the throw in.

Also, Roscommon are defininitely a coming side, They are big, fit and well organised and they'll certainly be playing in Croke Park again this year.


Postives from yesterday were Kane, Mooney and O'Hare who were all excellent on the biggest stage. With a differnt ref perhaps we would have a trophy in the cabinet today.

spiritof1991 (Down) - Posts: 693 - 27/04/2015 17:48:04    1718138

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Disheartening alright. Very like the league game in February in many ways. Like then the better team won and should have won by a much larger score but for a bit of dodgy shooting. I thought the game itself was of poor enough quality with a lot of basic handling errors/missed passes and poor shooting. Roscommon have some really quality players and yesterday Kilbride showed his class. He was too fast and powerful for any of his markers(I think Damien Turley could have done better here). The loss of Poland and Damien Turley from the starting 15 was a big set back. Apart from the periods when Mooney contested midfield I thought we were soundly trounced here, even the introduction of Peter Fitzpatrick made little or no difference although he did score a nice point.
I've looked at the second yellow card of McArdle's again and it did seem harsh enough. However by the letter of the law the referee was correct;
Noting Infractions

1. To hold an opponent with the hand(s).
2. To use the fist on or around the body of an opponent for the purpose of dispossessing him of the ball.
3. To charge an opponent in the back or to the front.
4. To charge an opponent:
i. Who is not in possession of the ball, or
ii. Is in the act of kicking the ball, or
iii. If both players are not moving in the direction of the ball to play it.
5. To charge an opponent for the purpose of giving an advantage to a team-mate.
Noting Infractions remain unchanged - Two Notings result in a Caution (Yellow Card) with a third resulting in an Order Off (second Yellow, followed by Red).
We are lacking in midfield- bar starting Mooney or return of Gordon there doesn't appear any other solutions. Its the main cause for our defeats.
The centre half back position hasn't been figured out yet. in fairness to McCorry he has tried out a number of players here O'Hanlon, Madine, McArdle, Devlin and I think Peter Turley played spells there but non have impressed in that position. Aidan Carr and Garvey have both been tried here before and they seem better suited to the wings. McKernan played there in 2010 to good effect and was also a scoring threat.
On a positive note I genuinely believe the forwards given the right supply of ball are dangerous. Mark Poland has come on leaps and bounds this year (away from the CHF position) and has that bit of class and goal getting ability than can turn a game.Granted a fully fit Martin Clarke at CHF would be an unbelievable boost but this looks unlikely this year. So who to play in CHF if McKernan is moved back? The full back line has operated well during the league particularly Turley and Collins and they look fairly settled. I wouldn't be too downbeat after yesterday. We are missing 1 or 2 players (Clarke being one and the other being around 6"4 and answers to the name of Dan) of being a really good team.

neverafree (Down) - Posts: 456 - 27/04/2015 17:52:58    1718142

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To be honest I think Jim McCorry needs to look at the whole situation , all defensive and no plan of going forward at speed , after the 1st 5 minutes or was plain to be seen midfield was a losing battle , P Turley was so busy giving orders to order players on marking up instead of contesting for the ball , has Jim no plan B for kickouts. ! ! , Also really think big Dan Gordon should be approached by management for the struggling midfield , as for up front we have no target man , needless to say , Benny should also be approached to fulfil that role , Benny still miles ahead of any forward in Down , !!!!

topdownfan (Down) - Posts: 555 - 27/04/2015 21:59:10    1718260

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Of course it would be great to have the Dan Gordon, Benny Coulter and Ambrose Rogers of 2010 involved.

Unfortunately it is 2015 now.

I'd to go back playing myself, but it's not realistic.

spiritof1991 (Down) - Posts: 693 - 28/04/2015 10:39:35    1718331

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spiritof1991
County: Down
Posts: 606

1718331 Of course it would be great to have the Dan Gordon, Benny Coulter and Ambrose Rogers of 2010 involved.

Unfortunately it is 2015 now.

I'd to go back playing myself, but it's not realistic --- If you are over 6" and can catch a ball I'd keep your phone close! lol

I'd usually be of the same opinion myself, but I think the lack of a midfield is a priority. He may not be the player he was but if Dan could offer even a competitive half of football then it may give us the edge. On Sunday Down's best spell came when Mooney pulled out and competed in midfield. We won a few breaks and looked dangerous. After the sending off, Mooney rarely left the full forward line and we lived on scraps. There are very fine lines between winning and losing. Sometimes the best managers have to 'break their own rules' to achieve success(you only have to look at the Down team 1991 to know that).

neverafree (Down) - Posts: 456 - 28/04/2015 13:38:31    1718465

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down simply weren't good enough. very disappointing. the boys will be more disappointed than anyone. they are the ones out in all weather busting themselves. hoping it will all click come championship

offtheground1 (Down) - Posts: 128 - 28/04/2015 14:03:54    1718484

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Roscomman are well known to be the biggest team in Ireland. Even so we were competing well enough before and for some time after the sending off. We were in the game right up to their goal

Today, its more about the breaking ball than the high clean fielding we got from Dan Gordon - who was/is an exceptional talent I agree.

Poland contributes a lot to picking up "Dirty" Ball so no need to panic and we won't be playing Roscomman every week.

I'd go with Mooney and Fitzpatrick at midfield against Derry, who are a lot smaller, with McKernan at CHB. The rest need to more agressively compete for loose ball which was the real thing we lacked last day, especially after McCardle went off.

spiritof1991 (Down) - Posts: 693 - 28/04/2015 16:22:23    1718585

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