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What Happened

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How could we let a 10 point lead slip ?? , no leaders on the pitch when we needed them , think C Poland should of been took off sooner ,PD was waiting nicely for the ball coming to the goal chance , Poland made a stupid dive to spoil the moment, then he shot for impossible angle on his weak side when we needed a score , really think we need to find a solid mid field , We have lovely footballers when we are winning but not enough players to step it up when the is in the melting pot , this was our year to reach Ulster final and again we are found wanting
Any thoughts ?

BannGael (Down) - Posts: 40 - 15/11/2020 18:52:22    2309500

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Replying To BannGael:  "How could we let a 10 point lead slip ?? , no leaders on the pitch when we needed them , think C Poland should of been took off sooner ,PD was waiting nicely for the ball coming to the goal chance , Poland made a stupid dive to spoil the moment, then he shot for impossible angle on his weak side when we needed a score , really think we need to find a solid mid field , We have lovely footballers when we are winning but not enough players to step it up when the is in the melting pot , this was our year to reach Ulster final and again we are found wanting
Any thoughts ?"
The main goal of the year, promotion to Division 2, was achieved - but the result today leaves a real sour taste in the mouth. For me, there are a few question marks on Tally after that loss. Some of the decisions were very confusing - and to be blunt just didn't work.

Big question - why was Liam Kerr taken off? I don't subscribe to Tally's post-match comments that he was fatigued, he was a real menace when he was on the ball and his removal allowed Cavan to focus on negating Mooney. I hope Shealan Johnston will be a top county player in a few years - but to throw him in when the game was in the melting pot like that was misguided - no one can argue he brought the same impact Kerr did.

If Tally thought he was a game changers - why not give the lad a run out in the Fermanagh game - why bring Ryan Johnston on, watch him have a very good impact but then wait until the 67th minute in today's game?

No doubt a lack of leadership and some individual errors* contributed massively to essentially a capitulation, but I thought decisions on the sideline were puzzling to say the very least. I mean why was the kick-out strategy not changed when Cavan were clearly dominating the middle?

Would be interested to hear what other people felt - what were the thoughts on the year? I'm still trying to figure out what we are/how good we can be.

*I wouldn't blame Poland for trying to score with the dive, he did what he thought was right - but I have to say I have never been impressed with him at county level. We still need a few nasty players who stand up to be country when the tide has turned.

AnDunCeanada (Down) - Posts: 97 - 15/11/2020 19:04:07    2309508

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Replying To AnDunCeanada:  "The main goal of the year, promotion to Division 2, was achieved - but the result today leaves a real sour taste in the mouth. For me, there are a few question marks on Tally after that loss. Some of the decisions were very confusing - and to be blunt just didn't work.

Big question - why was Liam Kerr taken off? I don't subscribe to Tally's post-match comments that he was fatigued, he was a real menace when he was on the ball and his removal allowed Cavan to focus on negating Mooney. I hope Shealan Johnston will be a top county player in a few years - but to throw him in when the game was in the melting pot like that was misguided - no one can argue he brought the same impact Kerr did.

If Tally thought he was a game changers - why not give the lad a run out in the Fermanagh game - why bring Ryan Johnston on, watch him have a very good impact but then wait until the 67th minute in today's game?

No doubt a lack of leadership and some individual errors* contributed massively to essentially a capitulation, but I thought decisions on the sideline were puzzling to say the very least. I mean why was the kick-out strategy not changed when Cavan were clearly dominating the middle?

Would be interested to hear what other people felt - what were the thoughts on the year? I'm still trying to figure out what we are/how good we can be.

*I wouldn't blame Poland for trying to score with the dive, he did what he thought was right - but I have to say I have never been impressed with him at county level. We still need a few nasty players who stand up to be country when the tide has turned."
Would agree Tally got couple of things wrong, would of had Ryan on sooner instead of the younger brother who is a great player and still under 20 next year , was a big ask of him today , also need few players to take it to the edge in games like this to grind out a result,

BannGael (Down) - Posts: 40 - 15/11/2020 19:20:42    2309535

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Massive problem was our kickouts in second half, we knew Cavan has a bigger and stronger midfield but every kick went to midfield which they cleaned up which in turn put us massively on the backfoot so our first half running game could not be done in the second half.
Kicks should have been mixed up with short kicks etc, we just didn't know what to do so management has to look at themselves here especially in the second water break this could have been sorted.

we missed 3 goal chances, 2 in first half and the poland hand which was falling to Devlin ( massive moment in game )

Plus point first half was outstanding, was a joy to watch, serious fit team here and it has a bright future which will get better especially playing in div 2 next year and we will have 3/4 lads back from traveling.

Do agree with we need to find a midfielder badly.

Still in shock tho.

Yourjoking (USA) - Posts: 532 - 15/11/2020 20:07:49    2309580

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For me it was a combination of three things;

1) Referring decisions - What was the Down kickout hopped for at the end of the first half? The resulting Cavan free was for literally nothing that i could see.
Down's running game was negated in the second half by "half fouls" which were never called. I recall one instance when a the Cavan No.4 literally fell over in front of KMcK and they got a free. Down players objected and it was moved up. Score.

I know it might seem like sour grapes but GAA refs are predisposed to trying to level up games. Its in their DNA and always will be but it is still incredibly frustrating and in my view it helped Cavan regain a foothold in the game.

Kickouts;

This has been a perennial issue for Tally. I live abroad and the last live game I seen Down play in the flesh was against Louth in Newry last year and they were completely at sea in midfield and the keeper was clueless in his strategy. Down lost this game and promotion as a result of it.

Fast forward a year and a half and we are still struggling in this area. We are a small team with speed. Surely in this day in age with tacticians and strategies we can work something in which we retain more than 70% of our own kickouts? (bearing in mind Dublin and teams of that elk regularly retain 90% +)


Individual errors;

I know no one wants to blame any players but responsibility must lie with the forward line in the second half. One key moment for me was when Shelan Johnson could have called a mark on the edge of the "D" but played on and dropped it short. If we scored that we would have went 5 up. Cavan went down the field and scored to reduce the deficit to 3 points.

Key moment in the game.

Other shooting errors from Poland, Flynn stand out. Know your role, give it to the shooters.


In all it was a wonderful roller coaster of a game and a lot to be positive about. Our pace and power was mesmerising at times and if we could prefect a kickout strategy or find a decent midfield partnership we could be a threat to most Div 2 teams.

Much to be positive about but it is one that we left behind.

SouthLDN_Spud_Murphy (UK) - Posts: 8 - 15/11/2020 20:15:21    2309583

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Replying To SouthLDN_Spud_Murphy:  "For me it was a combination of three things;

1) Referring decisions - What was the Down kickout hopped for at the end of the first half? The resulting Cavan free was for literally nothing that i could see.
Down's running game was negated in the second half by "half fouls" which were never called. I recall one instance when a the Cavan No.4 literally fell over in front of KMcK and they got a free. Down players objected and it was moved up. Score.

I know it might seem like sour grapes but GAA refs are predisposed to trying to level up games. Its in their DNA and always will be but it is still incredibly frustrating and in my view it helped Cavan regain a foothold in the game.

Kickouts;

This has been a perennial issue for Tally. I live abroad and the last live game I seen Down play in the flesh was against Louth in Newry last year and they were completely at sea in midfield and the keeper was clueless in his strategy. Down lost this game and promotion as a result of it.

Fast forward a year and a half and we are still struggling in this area. We are a small team with speed. Surely in this day in age with tacticians and strategies we can work something in which we retain more than 70% of our own kickouts? (bearing in mind Dublin and teams of that elk regularly retain 90% +)


Individual errors;

I know no one wants to blame any players but responsibility must lie with the forward line in the second half. One key moment for me was when Shelan Johnson could have called a mark on the edge of the "D" but played on and dropped it short. If we scored that we would have went 5 up. Cavan went down the field and scored to reduce the deficit to 3 points.

Key moment in the game.

Other shooting errors from Poland, Flynn stand out. Know your role, give it to the shooters.


In all it was a wonderful roller coaster of a game and a lot to be positive about. Our pace and power was mesmerising at times and if we could prefect a kickout strategy or find a decent midfield partnership we could be a threat to most Div 2 teams.

Much to be positive about but it is one that we left behind."
Disappointing today but I think the team is going in the right direction. I more confident in staying in div 2 next year that I was 2 weeks ago. We still need to add a few players to the team particularly at midfield . Hopefully liam Middleton , Ryan McAvoy and cormac o rawe get a chance in the league to develop in this area. Tally will know that we need to develop a winning mentality in Down which has not been there for 26 years. We need to learn to manage out games when we are in front.

I dont think we would have stood a chance against donegal next week so Goodluck to cavan in the final... they will need it.

downtothecore (Down) - Posts: 312 - 15/11/2020 21:49:13    2309680

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You payed the best football I've seen this year in the first half, absolutely destroyed Cavan. They knew they had nothing to lose and came out flying in the second half. From then on Down couldn't cope with Cavan physically or mentally. It was quite embarrassing to watch to be honest, Down just ran up the white flag of surrender and let Cavan bully you.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9325 - 16/11/2020 03:09:12    2309759

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Down is a hurling county, time for the footballers to now support the hurlers

Antrimroad (Down) - Posts: 93 - 16/11/2020 06:46:34    2309766

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Replying To downtothecore:  "Disappointing today but I think the team is going in the right direction. I more confident in staying in div 2 next year that I was 2 weeks ago. We still need to add a few players to the team particularly at midfield . Hopefully liam Middleton , Ryan McAvoy and cormac o rawe get a chance in the league to develop in this area. Tally will know that we need to develop a winning mentality in Down which has not been there for 26 years. We need to learn to manage out games when we are in front.

I dont think we would have stood a chance against donegal next week so Goodluck to cavan in the final... they will need it."
I would agree that overall things are starting to trend in the right direction, but performances have been so frustratingly inconsistent under Tally's reign that I really don't know how to gauge what this team can be - and as a result how effective he himself has been.

Finding a county level midfielder isn't easy and ultimately he has to work with what he has, but what worries me is some of the things he has control of. For example kick out's have been an issue for a long time. From yesterday's performance, either that hasn't been addressed properly or the players just aren't picking it up. Tally said it himself in the post match comments that they knew Cavan were stronger in the middle so why and how did the constant long kick outs to the middle happen? It's either coaching or the player and if Burns can't execute the strategy then we need someone who can, regardless of how good a shot stopper he is.

As much as the 1st half was very impressive in the 2nd we were out performed and most importantly out coached. We need a plan B for when teams begin to figure us out, like Cavan did yesterday. And there are quite a few better teams than Cavan so they will figure out how to handle the speed game. To be fair to him, I know Tally and his staff have spent the last few years trying out players to build a multi skilled and adaptable panel (and are obviously still looking as per the Louth game). I don't know the chances of getting Darryl and Aaron Brannigan in are, I know Tally has talked to them - but they would make some difference.

Here's hoping the embarrassment will make all hands a bit hungrier and a bit nastier.

AnDunCeanada (Down) - Posts: 97 - 16/11/2020 10:04:30    2309812

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Replying To Ulsterman:  "You payed the best football I've seen this year in the first half, absolutely destroyed Cavan. They knew they had nothing to lose and came out flying in the second half. From then on Down couldn't cope with Cavan physically or mentally. It was quite embarrassing to watch to be honest, Down just ran up the white flag of surrender and let Cavan bully you."
This comment should be read out loud by Paddy Tally before the lads break for the season. I'm sure the lads were embarrassed so need to take a negative and use it as fuel for 2021.

AnDunCeanada (Down) - Posts: 97 - 16/11/2020 10:11:47    2309816

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Replying To Antrimroad:  "Down is a hurling county, time for the footballers to now support the hurlers"
The Hurlers were absolutely magnificent and deserve the full support of every Down football fan.

AnDunCeanada (Down) - Posts: 97 - 16/11/2020 10:12:35    2309817

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Consolation to Down on the loss v. Cavan yesterday. Losing a lead like that is a painful way to lose. That loss will be a character builder for the team, no doubt about it. As a neutral, was good to see Down v. Cavan, the real traditional rivalry in Ulster live up to its reputation. All the best to the Mourne until 2021.

Young_gael (Meath) - Posts: 432 - 16/11/2020 11:00:03    2309878

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Replying To Ulsterman:  "You payed the best football I've seen this year in the first half, absolutely destroyed Cavan. They knew they had nothing to lose and came out flying in the second half. From then on Down couldn't cope with Cavan physically or mentally. It was quite embarrassing to watch to be honest, Down just ran up the white flag of surrender and let Cavan bully you."
That's it in a nutshell.

We talk about the Down way, but for every Mickey Linden or James McCartan was a John Kelly or Paul Higgins well able to mix it any way but loose. Not to mention Barry Breen, Conor Deegans, DJ, Greg Blaney. They'd go through you rather than round you.

bricktop (Down) - Posts: 2481 - 17/11/2020 09:40:10    2310506

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Simple!

5/6 players playing on Sunday are simply not county standard plus a lack of intelligence on the side line how to protect a 10 point lead.

nosides (Down) - Posts: 237 - 17/11/2020 15:05:18    2310659

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Replying To nosides:  "Simple!

5/6 players playing on Sunday are simply not county standard plus a lack of intelligence on the side line how to protect a 10 point lead."
Have to agree 100% especially as tally is the so called master of defensive football!!

BannGael (Down) - Posts: 40 - 17/11/2020 21:33:25    2310862

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It was a strange game on Sunday - a complete turnaround by both teams - How Cavan went from so bad in the first half to so good in the second half and down did the opposite is beyond me. and i dont think it was all due to the elements. I'm a bit disappointed by Paddy Tallys blaming of the referee for the collapse though. Honestly i thought the ref was poor enough but he was equally poor for both sides. He definately made the wrong call for the mark that lead to Cavans goal and also failed to Give martin Reeilly a blatent advantage when he was in on goal in the first half. I thought the penalty was pretty clear cut. But Tally was giving out about the ref consulting the umpire who had a clear view of it. (If Sludden had done the same thing in 2010 the whole Meath/Louth Debacle (sheridans goal) could have been put to bed.)

indaknownow (Offaly) - Posts: 52 - 18/11/2020 15:50:10    2311108

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Replying To BannGael:  "Have to agree 100% especially as tally is the so called master of defensive football!!"
I think everything needs to be put into a bit of context. I do agree there are a probably a couple of players (no more imo) who for me have consistently shown that they aren't at county level - but I wouldn't write off the younger players especially those under fire in defence after Sunday.

In reality we were missing our captain and best defender and arguably the second best defenders in the county (Darryl and Aaron Brannigan) aren't making themselves available. Big players like Gerard McGovern and Niall McParland likewise. That's a hell of a lot of talent unavailable.

Bear in mind that Murdock and Fegan are playing in their first championship season, Laverty who was playing a different role and Guinness in their second. As much as I don't agree with how he managed the game on Sunday, I think Tally deserves credit for blooding and developing some talented players - who will, given time, hopefully become top county players.

AnDunCeanada (Down) - Posts: 97 - 18/11/2020 16:30:52    2311131

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Replying To AnDunCeanada:  "I think everything needs to be put into a bit of context. I do agree there are a probably a couple of players (no more imo) who for me have consistently shown that they aren't at county level - but I wouldn't write off the younger players especially those under fire in defence after Sunday.

In reality we were missing our captain and best defender and arguably the second best defenders in the county (Darryl and Aaron Brannigan) aren't making themselves available. Big players like Gerard McGovern and Niall McParland likewise. That's a hell of a lot of talent unavailable.

Bear in mind that Murdock and Fegan are playing in their first championship season, Laverty who was playing a different role and Guinness in their second. As much as I don't agree with how he managed the game on Sunday, I think Tally deserves credit for blooding and developing some talented players - who will, given time, hopefully become top county players."
Will the Brannigan boys ever wear the black and red, their older brother Aidan did. I'd love to see them plans and see how down would fair

Antrimroad (Down) - Posts: 93 - 18/11/2020 18:21:25    2311162

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Replying To AnDunCeanada:  "I think everything needs to be put into a bit of context. I do agree there are a probably a couple of players (no more imo) who for me have consistently shown that they aren't at county level - but I wouldn't write off the younger players especially those under fire in defence after Sunday.

In reality we were missing our captain and best defender and arguably the second best defenders in the county (Darryl and Aaron Brannigan) aren't making themselves available. Big players like Gerard McGovern and Niall McParland likewise. That's a hell of a lot of talent unavailable.

Bear in mind that Murdock and Fegan are playing in their first championship season, Laverty who was playing a different role and Guinness in their second. As much as I don't agree with how he managed the game on Sunday, I think Tally deserves credit for blooding and developing some talented players - who will, given time, hopefully become top county players."
Will the Brannigan boys ever wear the black and red, their older brother Aidan did. I'd love to see them plans and see how down would fair

Antrimroad (Down) - Posts: 93 - 18/11/2020 18:21:28    2311163

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Replying To AnDunCeanada:  "I think everything needs to be put into a bit of context. I do agree there are a probably a couple of players (no more imo) who for me have consistently shown that they aren't at county level - but I wouldn't write off the younger players especially those under fire in defence after Sunday.

In reality we were missing our captain and best defender and arguably the second best defenders in the county (Darryl and Aaron Brannigan) aren't making themselves available. Big players like Gerard McGovern and Niall McParland likewise. That's a hell of a lot of talent unavailable.

Bear in mind that Murdock and Fegan are playing in their first championship season, Laverty who was playing a different role and Guinness in their second. As much as I don't agree with how he managed the game on Sunday, I think Tally deserves credit for blooding and developing some talented players - who will, given time, hopefully become top county players."
Given the fact we losted a 10 point lead against a average Cavan team , this shouldn't happen I honestly think Tally got it wrong he losted the run of himself , as for saying about the Brannigan brothers , these lads not interested so we have to work with what's available, as I said earlier a losing a 10 point lead is no exceptable at this level

BannGael (Down) - Posts: 40 - 18/11/2020 21:17:03    2311226

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