Westmeath Forum

Minor Footballers

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Replying To Thechick:  "Is there any talk of Westmeath going to 13/15/17 instead of 14/16/18 for next year ,this comes up every year. Seemingly Croke Park sent out letters to county boards looking to push for it but its a decision that the clubs have to make, it cannot be enforced. I was told Longford are adamant they are remaining as is. We in Westmeath were told that its only ourselves and Longford left in Leinster(holding up progress) but I was told that overall there are 20 or 22 counties still using 14/16/18 age groups and some of the ones that did change looking to go back ???"
Usually when Croke Park say jump, our county board say 'how high'?

We even voted for that ridiculous Tier 2 proposal

valley84 (Westmeath) - Posts: 1791 - 06/11/2019 20:22:26    2248179

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Replying To valley84:  "Usually when Croke Park say jump, our county board say 'how high'?

We even voted for that ridiculous Tier 2 proposal"
Valley. The County Board is made up of Club delegates. Did your Club delegate support the Tier 2 proposal? We all have a voice through our Clubs. The Tier 2 proposal was long overdue.

midfield9 (Westmeath) - Posts: 54 - 07/11/2019 11:07:26    2248246

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Replying To midfield9:  "Valley. The County Board is made up of Club delegates. Did your Club delegate support the Tier 2 proposal? We all have a voice through our Clubs. The Tier 2 proposal was long overdue."
Agreed that the Tier 2 proposal was accepted by the Clubs via their delegates, No point blaming the County Board for this decison. According to media reports it seems that Tyrrellspass was the only club opposed to the proposals for Tier 2.

With regard to the U14/16/18 situation, my feeling is that if its not broken, there's no need to fix it. I think if the Minor age is changed back to U17 at club level there will be a much higher and earlier drop off of players who on leaving the U17 age group will see the step to Senior level as too much. No issues with U17 at County level, that would only affect a handful of players comapred to club level. In a time of trying to encourage lads to stay with their clubs and play football, particularly when they are leaving school, moving to college, discovering a whole new social scene, the possibilities of losing players at club level will be increased if the U18 age group is changed back to U17.

tazz (Westmeath) - Posts: 52 - 07/11/2019 13:59:40    2248302

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Replying To tazz:  "Agreed that the Tier 2 proposal was accepted by the Clubs via their delegates, No point blaming the County Board for this decison. According to media reports it seems that Tyrrellspass was the only club opposed to the proposals for Tier 2.

With regard to the U14/16/18 situation, my feeling is that if its not broken, there's no need to fix it. I think if the Minor age is changed back to U17 at club level there will be a much higher and earlier drop off of players who on leaving the U17 age group will see the step to Senior level as too much. No issues with U17 at County level, that would only affect a handful of players comapred to club level. In a time of trying to encourage lads to stay with their clubs and play football, particularly when they are leaving school, moving to college, discovering a whole new social scene, the possibilities of losing players at club level will be increased if the U18 age group is changed back to U17."
Agree with everything that you say about retaining team age groups as they currently are.
Retention of players after finishing underage football vital for any clubs viability.
Underage county delegates would be in favour of keeping the current status quo but pressure has been previously applied from the senior county officials to go with 11,13, 15 & 17.
The minor county board is appearing to be less relevant with less decision making power and that is a big pity as both Niall O'Brien & Michael McHugh have done a good job with all that happens at underage.

Convert2 (Westmeath) - Posts: 19 - 07/11/2019 16:38:12    2248357

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Changing to U13.U15.U17 would be a huge mistake. There are 2 reasons why it is being pushed. 1 is because it is easier to run competitions if there's no clash between levels. U16 and u18 compettions are delayed due to U17 county. 2nd reason is to completely seperate juvenile and adult competitions to avoid clashes. In my view neither reason is sufficient to justify the effect the change would have on U18 players. They would have to play adult competitions whether they're ready or not and there's no way to fit a meaningful U19 competition into the calender.

midfield9 (Westmeath) - Posts: 54 - 07/11/2019 17:48:43    2248382

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Talking about U17, reading 4 different Club match reports from recent U20 games and they all have U17 players named on their starting teams,players that played in this years U17 Championship, My understanding was that once U17 came in a player had to be 17yrs or older on the 1st of Jan to play adult football, or are the rules different for U20 ?? is u20 not classed as Adult??

Westmeathgeal (Westmeath) - Posts: 45 - 07/11/2019 20:13:56    2248429

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Why not do both. County Meath run the traditional U12/14/16/18 league & Championship from Feb-Aug. Then from Aug-Nov they run U13/15/17 leagues. It means that, for example a strong 14 year old U14 player then becomes a weaker U15 player which will help him when he steps up to U16 the following year. It also means the weak U14 13 year old becomes the stronger U13 footballer. More football for Juveniles as a result also. There is still plenty of underage football being played in Meath at this time of the year as a result. I brought this up at a County Board Juvenile planning session in 2018 but that was the last I heard of it. Westmeath mentality of a 6-8 month juvenile calendar is in the past. Give kids matches!!!

Boarderboy (Meath) - Posts: 92 - 07/11/2019 23:40:55    2248473

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Replying To Boarderboy:  "Why not do both. County Meath run the traditional U12/14/16/18 league & Championship from Feb-Aug. Then from Aug-Nov they run U13/15/17 leagues. It means that, for example a strong 14 year old U14 player then becomes a weaker U15 player which will help him when he steps up to U16 the following year. It also means the weak U14 13 year old becomes the stronger U13 footballer. More football for Juveniles as a result also. There is still plenty of underage football being played in Meath at this time of the year as a result. I brought this up at a County Board Juvenile planning session in 2018 but that was the last I heard of it. Westmeath mentality of a 6-8 month juvenile calendar is in the past. Give kids matches!!!"
It would be a good solution, but very hard on mentors involved with teams in two different clubs

Meath has a lot of dual clubs
Westmeath has one dual club
One of the main reasons the two sports seem to pull against each other at times in the county

Plus our minor board struggle to run off competitions as it is.

We should never have voted yes for the Tier 2 proposals as they didn't offer the winner a route back into the AI series which would have been a proper reward for the winner. In any other decade, reaching two Leinster finals would have been seen as a very good decade for Westmeath.
Soon there will be a Tier 2 for minor county teams. Where will our underage teams go then?

valley84 (Westmeath) - Posts: 1791 - 08/11/2019 13:52:20    2248572

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Replying To valley84:  "It would be a good solution, but very hard on mentors involved with teams in two different clubs

Meath has a lot of dual clubs
Westmeath has one dual club
One of the main reasons the two sports seem to pull against each other at times in the county

Plus our minor board struggle to run off competitions as it is.

We should never have voted yes for the Tier 2 proposals as they didn't offer the winner a route back into the AI series which would have been a proper reward for the winner. In any other decade, reaching two Leinster finals would have been seen as a very good decade for Westmeath.
Soon there will be a Tier 2 for minor county teams. Where will our underage teams go then?"
Westmeath has 1 dual club?? Cullion & Clonkill/Lomans?? Castletown/Malachys?? St.Brigids/Miltonpass,Tyrellspass,Rochfordbridge? Clonkill/The Downs? Raharney/Killucan?? Plunketts/Mullingar Shamrocks?? Ringtown/Castletown Finea Coole Whitehall?? Delvin/Delvin??!!

The_Fonz (Westmeath) - Posts: 146 - 08/11/2019 14:42:09    2248584

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Delvin is the only dual club in Westmeath, how can you not understand that? Naming two clubs and in some cases three in the post above. The mind does boggle at times. That said Delvin are muck

JohnyDuncan (UK) - Posts: 94 - 08/11/2019 16:07:39    2248610

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If you look at Under 14/16 hurling and football competitions that lead into your minor in this county for the last five years the same 3/4 clubs are involved in the finals in Division 1 each year in both codes. Yet almost none of the mentors/management of these teams are with the development squads bar one guy I know of who got involved this year. If these guys are working with the some of the best in the county and making finals/winning chamionships every year/second year should these guys also not be developed as well to upskill them to eventually manage county squads. Will they not go to the county set up???

Thechick (Westmeath) - Posts: 90 - 08/11/2019 16:21:52    2248614

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Replying To The_Fonz:  "Westmeath has 1 dual club?? Cullion & Clonkill/Lomans?? Castletown/Malachys?? St.Brigids/Miltonpass,Tyrellspass,Rochfordbridge? Clonkill/The Downs? Raharney/Killucan?? Plunketts/Mullingar Shamrocks?? Ringtown/Castletown Finea Coole Whitehall?? Delvin/Delvin??!!"
You proved his point. Delvin. 1 dual club.

jamsie (Westmeath) - Posts: 273 - 08/11/2019 17:02:27    2248620

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Replying To jamsie:  "You proved his point. Delvin. 1 dual club."
Killucan/Raharney are the one parish, so would be considered a dual.

The_Fonz (Westmeath) - Posts: 146 - 08/11/2019 18:54:24    2248641

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There was one minor league match played before the leaving cert this year. So one minor league game played between February and July. Then some teams played 3 league games in 10 days. Before we look at introducing competitions at every level we should worry about getting the ones we already have running on schedule.

Wmeath2 (Westmeath) - Posts: 103 - 08/11/2019 19:22:35    2248647

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Replying To The_Fonz:  "Killucan/Raharney are the one parish, so would be considered a dual."
A lot of Killucan players don't play with Raharney though

valley84 (Westmeath) - Posts: 1791 - 08/11/2019 22:54:33    2248686

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Replying To Thechick:  "If you look at Under 14/16 hurling and football competitions that lead into your minor in this county for the last five years the same 3/4 clubs are involved in the finals in Division 1 each year in both codes. Yet almost none of the mentors/management of these teams are with the development squads bar one guy I know of who got involved this year. If these guys are working with the some of the best in the county and making finals/winning chamionships every year/second year should these guys also not be developed as well to upskill them to eventually manage county squads. Will they not go to the county set up???"
Mentors don't want to be involved with county squads.
Why? Firstly, find a pitch to train on.
You want to do gym work? Source a location and a coach to do it properly, along with finances for same.
3rd, get the resources needed to train the team on the pitch - balls, bibs
Get agreement for bringing squad to challenge games
Navigate the conflicts that the talented players have between club football, club hurling, school football, hurling, probably soccer and maybe rugby

valley84 (Westmeath) - Posts: 1791 - 08/11/2019 22:58:42    2248688

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Replying To valley84:  "Mentors don't want to be involved with county squads.
Why? Firstly, find a pitch to train on.
You want to do gym work? Source a location and a coach to do it properly, along with finances for same.
3rd, get the resources needed to train the team on the pitch - balls, bibs
Get agreement for bringing squad to challenge games
Navigate the conflicts that the talented players have between club football, club hurling, school football, hurling, probably soccer and maybe rugby"
You may have a point there regarding mentors not wanting to go into the development squads, this not due to not wanting to but more so not wanting to be involved with all the "red tape" and off the field short sighted stuff from the CB.
I know of one guy who said he was asked to help out with one of these squads a couple of years back and the first thing he noticed was they only trained every now and then so he tried to install training once a week every week. This lasted about three weeks and he was told one week to leave it for a few weeks before training again . When he asked why he was told the management team of the corresponding age in hurling had complained that the football was training to often.

Thechick (Westmeath) - Posts: 90 - 11/11/2019 11:36:21    2249032

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Juvenile football is in bad shape and to say otherwise is not facing reality. From under 12 down there is some hope now as it seems to be going in right direction. Above that there is a big problem. I wish all the county teams well at all age groups including adult but I can't fathom the number of 'back room' people in the new senior hurling set up. This is only going to divert resources from the other County sides. The county board seem out of touch lurching along from one year to another. I am sure they do their best but I can't see any new blood on the executives or committees these past few years with one or two honourable exceptions. New blood means new ideas, new innovations, joined up thinking. We are done with juvenile football and hurling for a good few weeks now bar a few delayed semis and finals. What are our neighbours doing. They are still playing. As someone earlier said a six month season for young lads isn't enough.

TToatler (Dublin) - Posts: 10 - 11/11/2019 12:09:23    2249043

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I wouldn't agree that from 12 up Football is in bad shape.By all accounts the Under 14/16/17 finals were very good. It seems that their are that many stories of mediocre set up's and penny pinching circulating that the most experienced mentors wont get involved and in some clubs they wont send in their players because they believe the players get better training with the club. Most the time its that there are good mentors in place but they find themselves immediately handcuffed ,they bring new ideas and examples of what other counties are doing but they get no hearing.
Lads will tell you that they get involved and are really excited about working with a county underage squad but they leave dejected after a year and will not go back. There are numerous examples of these guys in both codes in the county, they would tell you straight out "never again". When you ask them why its never a problem with the players, its always a frustration with the CB and a lack of vision. In most cases its the small things like Valley84 said pitches, gear, regular S&C, things other counties just Get,no questions.
The CB is just musical chairs with lads out of touch who believe its all about money, unfortunately nobody is bothered arguing anymore.

Thechick (Westmeath) - Posts: 90 - 11/11/2019 13:06:29    2249064

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Email through from Croke Park today. All counties must change to U13, 15, 17. Can have other age groups at the approval of Croke Park. I would love to see a survey of player drop off results over the next 5-10 years when this changes.

Wmeath2 (Westmeath) - Posts: 103 - 13/11/2019 19:51:36    2249525

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