Mayo Forum

Decision to drop Clarke????

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Replying To Agaacultural:  "I feel for Hennelly, both he and Clarke have had a good tussle for the No 1 Jersey.
Poor decision from Mgt to play Hennelly, after not having played since the Galway game.
It is time to look at Flanagan now, as was very impressed with him during the course of the U21 campaign.

The stats always tell a story, however I feel that decisions based on emotion and gut feeling are the best ones to go by.
For example, if the case that Seamus O Shea gave the ball away numerous times in the first game was an indication that these turnovers may have cost us victory, surely he could/should have been held responsible and be dropped in a similar fashion.
I feel there may have been alterior motives/politics at play with the decision, but I hope that I am wrong.

The goalkeeping position is probably the most important part of your team. The confidence it gives defenders and midfielders in particular to know that the guy in the 1 jersey has your back, and is on top of his game, and is ready is vital. Clarke was an All-Star in my eyes, though they will probably give to Cluxton based on the sentiment and the fact he is the first person to collect Sam on 3 occasions."
When you say "I feel there may have been alterior motives/politics at play with the decision, but I hope that I am wrong" what are you referring too??

Panunipa (Mayo) - Posts: 103 - 04/10/2016 02:04:54    1922194

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Replying To SixtiesKid:  "Every team makes errors. Only when you win nobody bothers to look at them. Mayo lost again for the same reason as for the last 27 years. They do not have the forwards to win big matches. I don't see a Michael Donnellan, Padraig Joyce or Ja Fallon there. No Peter Canavan or Mickey Linden. Not even a Colm O Rourke or Maurice Fitzgerald. That and no other is the problem. Remember a corner back missing a sitter to beat Kerry 2 years ago. You need forwards to win. Only 8 points from play from your forwards in 2 matches against Dublin. Totally inadequate.
No point in blaming managers past and present. No point in blaming goalkeepers. No point in dreaming of All Irelands unless you can score a reasonable amount from your forwards.
That's your problem folks. I'd love to see you win, its heartbreaking to look at how close you continue to go."
Every team makes errors. Only when you win nobody bothers to look at them. Mayo lost again for the same reason as for the last 27 years. They do not have the forwards to win big matches. I don't see a Michael Donnellan, Padraig Joyce or Ja Fallon there. No Peter Canavan or Mickey Linden. Not even a Colm O Rourke or Maurice Fitzgerald. That and no other is the problem. Remember a corner back missing a sitter to beat Kerry 2 years ago. You need forwards to win. Only 8 points from play from your forwards in 2 matches against Dublin. Totally inadequate.
No point in blaming managers past and present. No point in blaming goalkeepers. No point in dreaming of All Irelands unless you can score a reasonable amount from your forwards.
That's your problem folks. I'd love to see you win, its heartbreaking to look at how close you continue to go.

Of course every team makes mistakes, however, the consequences of your goalkeeper repeatedly mistakes in big games tend to be much more costly than that of, say, a wing forward.

I agree with you that we have never really produced outstanding forwards such as those you have listed, and it is undoubtedly a big problem for us on the big days. However, notwithstanding that, we have been very, very close to winning an All-Ireland on three occasions now (1996, 2013 and 2016) only to be undone by simple goalkeeping errors. Hennelly has been culpable for the latter two as well as in the All-Ireland minor final replay in 2008, so there are big questions over his temperament to handle such an occasion. I could add his meltdown in the semi-final replay last year to the list.

I don't want to hammer the lad, as he must be in a bad place right now. But he just isn't good enough, and with the news on Clarke sorting the number 1 jersey has just become an urgent priority.

Gleebo (Mayo) - Posts: 1846 - 04/10/2016 11:00:32    1922275

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Replying To Panunipa:  "Hi mate, when you say you ' Dont know what type of player pressure he is under' what are you referring to?"
Rochford might have second guessed himself about the keeper after listening to certain players, it is no secret that Mayo has an issue in that dept. Anyway, the ref. did you a favour with the blackcard on Hennelly, who will bounce back and best of luck to him.

suckvalleypaddy (Galway) - Posts: 1407 - 04/10/2016 14:00:52    1922381

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We lost, get over it and it's not that we're not used to it.
Rumours and all sorts doing the rounds on why Clarke was subbed on the day. Who was doing the stats that led to the decision, what's his name and is there any relationship to Hennelly involved? You might find that's not a bad place to start.
As for the 2 matches? I have to admit I held out NO HOPE for Mayo. I only knew Rochford in a manager sense from what he'd done for Corofin, but knew him as a person and he's a shrewd man. My respect for him has gone up quite substantially since he took over this team. He took over at a bad time for Mayo football, injuries were also a huge problem during the league but somehow Mayo survived in Div 1. The Mayo team also rose above all expectations of how people thought they'd perform after the Connaught championship and I feel this was largely because of the manager and fitness coach and others. The decision with Clarke was overall a bad one, but it did lead to Keegans goal, it also, sadly, gave away a penalty and quite a few points plus other stuff. We could have won an AI, we didn't, twice in the one year. To blame Rochford would be stupid, he didn't drop the ball, he didn't get sent off. Who knows what would have happened if that ball wasn't dropped? I'm inclined to think that on "mature reflection" Rochford would have been seen as quite a super hero in supporters minds. No good thinking about it anymore, talking and debating won't do zilch, but I suppose it lightens the banjaxed minds of everyone after a roller coaster few weeks. For the first time in a long time and if the backroom people stay together I feel strongly a formula will be hatched out, along with 2 more of the underage guys, plus a surprise newcomer, to bring us to the promised land. Thank you to the Mayo panel and backroom team (minus 1) for the last few weeks. I'll be making no more comments till the new year, so Happy Christmas everyone.

davittsman (Mayo) - Posts: 328 - 04/10/2016 18:06:19    1922532

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Replying To davittsman:  "We lost, get over it and it's not that we're not used to it.
Rumours and all sorts doing the rounds on why Clarke was subbed on the day. Who was doing the stats that led to the decision, what's his name and is there any relationship to Hennelly involved? You might find that's not a bad place to start.
As for the 2 matches? I have to admit I held out NO HOPE for Mayo. I only knew Rochford in a manager sense from what he'd done for Corofin, but knew him as a person and he's a shrewd man. My respect for him has gone up quite substantially since he took over this team. He took over at a bad time for Mayo football, injuries were also a huge problem during the league but somehow Mayo survived in Div 1. The Mayo team also rose above all expectations of how people thought they'd perform after the Connaught championship and I feel this was largely because of the manager and fitness coach and others. The decision with Clarke was overall a bad one, but it did lead to Keegans goal, it also, sadly, gave away a penalty and quite a few points plus other stuff. We could have won an AI, we didn't, twice in the one year. To blame Rochford would be stupid, he didn't drop the ball, he didn't get sent off. Who knows what would have happened if that ball wasn't dropped? I'm inclined to think that on "mature reflection" Rochford would have been seen as quite a super hero in supporters minds. No good thinking about it anymore, talking and debating won't do zilch, but I suppose it lightens the banjaxed minds of everyone after a roller coaster few weeks. For the first time in a long time and if the backroom people stay together I feel strongly a formula will be hatched out, along with 2 more of the underage guys, plus a surprise newcomer, to bring us to the promised land. Thank you to the Mayo panel and backroom team (minus 1) for the last few weeks. I'll be making no more comments till the new year, so Happy Christmas everyone."
.............all that's missing here is the return of Mort.

liner (Mayo) - Posts: 756 - 04/10/2016 18:28:11    1922543

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Replying To liner:  ".............all that's missing here is the return of Mort."
ciaran mac as an impact sub also lol

maroondiesel (Mayo) - Posts: 1061 - 04/10/2016 20:14:10    1922591

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Hennelly should be proud to have played in the all ireland final. You have to be a gifted guy to play at this standard and make the team. I know he will have better days for Mayo. Its not the end of the world.

I was sickened to hear the sunday game panel saying Mayo wont win an all Ireland. Dublin have been miles ahead of the other teams coming to the final. I thought ye wouldnt have a hope. But ye were better than Dublin both days. In my eyes Mayo are the best football team in Ireland.

Sheedy (Galway) - Posts: 107 - 04/10/2016 21:52:11    1922625

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Hennelly has to take some of the blame, but others had chances to level the game , A O Shea kicked wide from easy chance, C O Shea kicked into keepers hands and C O Connor missed that last free , once in the game A O Shea played an early pass to a runner and Keegan scored a goal, why didn't he do that more , he overplays the ball and gets turned over , so some blame there also, and Rochford and his selectors should not have changed keeper before a final .

culmore (None) - Posts: 1398 - 04/10/2016 22:12:45    1922636

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Replying To culmore:  "Hennelly has to take some of the blame, but others had chances to level the game , A O Shea kicked wide from easy chance, C O Shea kicked into keepers hands and C O Connor missed that last free , once in the game A O Shea played an early pass to a runner and Keegan scored a goal, why didn't he do that more , he overplays the ball and gets turned over , so some blame there also, and Rochford and his selectors should not have changed keeper before a final ."
How can you blame C O'Conner for missing a massive pressurised free from a difficult angle??? Thers a few factors over both games why Mayo lost the All Ireland... definitely no luck was one of them!!! I can why Rochford took the chance to drop Clarke... his kickouts... that kickout that fell to Connolly mite have been the defining moment that sealed the fate of the replay

Tommy83 (UK) - Posts: 4 - 05/10/2016 12:27:14    1922794

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Sorry... before any one tries to criticise, I didn't finish my post... I don't blame Clarke, I think he's a better keeper than hennelly bar maybe hennellys kickouts are a bit better... I wouldn't blame the management for making such a massive call either

Tommy83 (UK) - Posts: 4 - 05/10/2016 12:33:33    1922798

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Replying To EDH:  "Stopthelights, I can't think of any mistake Tom Healy made during the Rochford spell in charge of Corofin so why would he not have picked the Galway U21 all Ireland winning keeper, Kevin Murphy was the reserve kerper during his tenure as Bernard Power was unavailable.

You appear to be jumping on the bandwagon."
Bernard Power became the Galway senior goalkeeper while "unavailable" for Corofin ?

StopTheLights (Galway) - Posts: 262 - 08/10/2016 08:47:02    1923981

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Replying To StopTheLights:  "Bernard Power became the Galway senior goalkeeper while "unavailable" for Corofin ?"
You need to back up your initial observation with facts, but here are the facts from what I have been told regarding Corofin, Power not available to Corofin 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015 goalkeeping between Morris, Murphy and Healy. Healy secured number one spot with Murphy understudy, Morris and Rochford co managers in 2013, Rochford manager in 2014/2015 ( all ireland winning year), 2015/2016 Power returns to Corofin club, trains with Corofin Intermediates and seniors as they train together, becomes club intermediate keeper, becomes Galway intermediate keeper invited to train with Galway seniors as third choice keeper, Dolan/Manus B. lose form or injured so Power picked v Mayo. This is no reflection on Rochford selections.

By the way Michael Lundy picked as Galway regular before he became a Corofin regular following outstanding performances for GMIT in late 2013. From my understanding just because you play for Galway does not guarantee you a Corofin shirt.

PPS, you still jumped on the Rochford bashing.

EDH (Galway) - Posts: 357 - 08/10/2016 13:01:32    1924033

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Replying To Gleebo:  "Every team makes errors. Only when you win nobody bothers to look at them. Mayo lost again for the same reason as for the last 27 years. They do not have the forwards to win big matches. I don't see a Michael Donnellan, Padraig Joyce or Ja Fallon there. No Peter Canavan or Mickey Linden. Not even a Colm O Rourke or Maurice Fitzgerald. That and no other is the problem. Remember a corner back missing a sitter to beat Kerry 2 years ago. You need forwards to win. Only 8 points from play from your forwards in 2 matches against Dublin. Totally inadequate.
No point in blaming managers past and present. No point in blaming goalkeepers. No point in dreaming of All Irelands unless you can score a reasonable amount from your forwards.
That's your problem folks. I'd love to see you win, its heartbreaking to look at how close you continue to go.

Of course every team makes mistakes, however, the consequences of your goalkeeper repeatedly mistakes in big games tend to be much more costly than that of, say, a wing forward.

I agree with you that we have never really produced outstanding forwards such as those you have listed, and it is undoubtedly a big problem for us on the big days. However, notwithstanding that, we have been very, very close to winning an All-Ireland on three occasions now (1996, 2013 and 2016) only to be undone by simple goalkeeping errors. Hennelly has been culpable for the latter two as well as in the All-Ireland minor final replay in 2008, so there are big questions over his temperament to handle such an occasion. I could add his meltdown in the semi-final replay last year to the list.

I don't want to hammer the lad, as he must be in a bad place right now. But he just isn't good enough, and with the news on Clarke sorting the number 1 jersey has just become an urgent priority."
Ciaran mac?

Spoddgy (Mayo) - Posts: 657 - 10/10/2016 20:57:37    1924680

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rumours and Mayo is great for these ,but that certain players demanded from management that certain players from their clubs got game time in the final, any truth in these rumours ????

culmore (None) - Posts: 1398 - 10/10/2016 21:34:49    1924693

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Wrong call by management. Goalkeeper situation needs to be sorted out quickly for next season.Mayo scored a goal and fourteen points enough to win the game if the management had stuck with Clarke. Some other poster has blamed the goalkeeper for the loss in 1996.That is inaccurate.THE DRAWN GAME WAS DRAWN BECAUSE A WELL KNOWN DEFENDER MISSJUDGED THE FLIGHT OF THE BALL AND ALLOWED it TO HOP. john madden the keeper wrongly blamed for that.He was an easy target for abuse afterwards. Video replays clearly show a gaff by a defender. Fitzmaurice, Gavin,Harte,Cody, would not retain a goalie who is prone to gaffs.

Brinsley Swartz (Mayo) - Posts: 2225 - 11/10/2016 11:54:25    1924838

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A huge call which went seriously amiss, all the more strange when you go back to what happened in the Galway game. As for the future a lot depends on whether Clarke stays on ,hopefully he does. Shlingermann should be sounded out about a return to GAA, an outstanding goalkeeper.

FearBeag (Mayo) - Posts: 50 - 13/10/2016 12:36:34    1925680

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He was about to be brought on in the drawn game to with about 5 to go

unclegerry (Mayo) - Posts: 1204 - 13/10/2016 14:15:09    1925734

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Replying To Spoddgy:  "Ciaran mac?"
he wouldn't be at that level to be fair but he was probably yer best in the last 30 years

galwayfootball1 (Galway) - Posts: 249 - 18/10/2016 23:01:15    1927419

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After nearly 3 weeks I had gotten over the result by completely ignoring it, just take it as another match, that's it, then I stupidity watched the whole game on YouTube tonight and am now in as bad form as I was 3 weeks ago, where do you start? Mayo kickouts but defence wasn't showing for the ball, Dean Rock scored at least 8 or 9 frees out of his 10 or 11 points, daftness, Small should have got a black card early on, Cooper black card was wrong, a free was enough, Keegan should have got yellow ref gave a free for shirt pulling he indicated that, the penalty, ref losing the run of the game, should have clamped down harder early on, hit and hope high ball into Mayo forwards, over carrying, losing ball in the tackle, leaving Barrett on bench until the end, no game plan from midfield onwards. Dublin threw everything at Mayo while Mayo played poor enough, too many players either were tired or couldn't give their best, yet Dublin only won by a point.
Enough is enough, I'm throwing this computer yolk away, getting away from it all and burying my head in the sand until next summer and don't want to read, hear or see a football or related story until then. La la la la la la la la la la la la la

riverboys (Mayo) - Posts: 1389 - 20/10/2016 23:19:46    1928033

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How does the selection process for new County players work?

Panunipa (Mayo) - Posts: 103 - 21/10/2016 00:05:03    1928043

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