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Wexford Hurling 2020

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Replying To Onfor15:  "On what basis do you suggest that we more than matched them?

Key difference, they hurled against the wind far better than we did, which is always a good indicator of which team is more skillful.

I'd also disagree about what cost us. The goal just prolonged the inevitable.

Only a 6 point lead at half time, the writing was on the wall.

What cost us was going 4 points down after ten minutes even though we were playing with a gale of a wind.

Some excellent players, but the fringe players were limited enough. It also seems as though the management believed the panel is weak enough, because I don't think they used any subs? Even though there were a few lads struggling. Must have been absolutely no confidence in any of the subs."
we more than matched them because after a slow start, as you pointed out, we outscored them 11 points to 1 for the rest of the half, and we also hit some really poor wides, scorable shots that you would expect to put over. At least 5 points left behind us. And at the halfway point in the second half, we went up by 6. But then, instead of pushing on, we retreated and let them have the ball from their half back line on to midfield. I'm not sure why the management made no subs, but there are lads on the bench who would have been able to make an impact, but obviously the management thought otherwise. I do wonder if they had their time back, would they not ask the midfield to drop deep and the half forward line to go back to midfield and also to make a couple of subs.

Against the wind, Kilkenny scored 6 points, 5 of those in an early flurry when they settled much better than us. We scored 1-2, playing half the game in our own half. Had we made any sort of positive play rather then being negative, I think it would have given us a much better chance. All ifs and buts however, and another loss.

james2011 (Wexford) - Posts: 563 - 21/12/2020 15:19:27    2325100

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Replying To Onfor15:  "On what basis do you suggest that we more than matched them?

Key difference, they hurled against the wind far better than we did, which is always a good indicator of which team is more skillful.

I'd also disagree about what cost us. The goal just prolonged the inevitable.

Only a 6 point lead at half time, the writing was on the wall.

What cost us was going 4 points down after ten minutes even though we were playing with a gale of a wind.

Some excellent players, but the fringe players were limited enough. It also seems as though the management believed the panel is weak enough, because I don't think they used any subs? Even though there were a few lads struggling. Must have been absolutely no confidence in any of the subs."
I can be very critical as some have pointed out but c'mon your being very harsh. While the U20s lost because they simply we're not at the standard, I think the minors lost because the management made a lot of errors including not bringing not any subs. I think this crop are a talented bunch. If you mix them with last year's minors and the one or two good prospects from the U20s we be okay.

If we see a better standard of minor teams coming through in the next few years, win another Leinster minor and get to an AI final at these grades we be okay. Whether the structures or coaches are in place for that I highly doubt it.

Finchfurlong996 (Wexford) - Posts: 123 - 21/12/2020 15:29:58    2325109

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Replying To Onfor15:  "On what basis do you suggest that we more than matched them?

Key difference, they hurled against the wind far better than we did, which is always a good indicator of which team is more skillful.

I'd also disagree about what cost us. The goal just prolonged the inevitable.

Only a 6 point lead at half time, the writing was on the wall.

What cost us was going 4 points down after ten minutes even though we were playing with a gale of a wind.

Some excellent players, but the fringe players were limited enough. It also seems as though the management believed the panel is weak enough, because I don't think they used any subs? Even though there were a few lads struggling. Must have been absolutely no confidence in any of the subs."
Perhaps had the gale not been in it we would have seen the comparison without the wind effect but I agree Kilkenny were the stronger team. Saying that, minor is U17 now and development is still ongoing. I know lads were on about S&F but the effects of overdoing it at that age is really unknown and it doesn't take too much time for an 18/19 yr old to catch up. So keep focusing on the skills and the S&F can come later.

zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 1018 - 21/12/2020 15:51:16    2325121

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Massive pity for me is, we could and possible should have won that game and I cant help but think we left a minor leinster title behind us this year. As for the poster above cant think of your username O 15 or something, you are way off and been very harsh on the team

hunting (Wexford) - Posts: 589 - 21/12/2020 16:52:25    2325135

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Replying To zinny:  "Perhaps had the gale not been in it we would have seen the comparison without the wind effect but I agree Kilkenny were the stronger team. Saying that, minor is U17 now and development is still ongoing. I know lads were on about S&F but the effects of overdoing it at that age is really unknown and it doesn't take too much time for an 18/19 yr old to catch up. So keep focusing on the skills and the S&F can come later."
Agree with Zinny re u17 is more about skills and general size than S&C. The majority of ground work for senior inter county S&C is done now from ages 18-22 before lads are really starting to hit their peak size at 23/24 which they then can maintain for the rest of their careers.
Worryingly however, was the actual physical size difference in our minors compared to Kilkenny. Once again we have a lot of small nice hurlers, but not one 'big' lad who can hurl and move. Kilkenny had several lads bigger than ours that could hurl and Cork and Limerick in Munster were the same. It is just a problem we seem to have in Wexford, regardless of S&C programmes it just seems to be we always have smaller teams. Is this simply down to a small size in regards to the general population of minors in the county, or is it a case we are neglecting guys u14-u16 because they carry some weight or are deemed too slow for a county team? I know a few years ago back when I was involved with my clubs u14 team a county u14 selector told me that *X* didn't make the panel as he was a stone or more overweight, despite him being exceptionally skillful with a great hand. I couldn't believe he wasnt in the top 30 hurlers at his grade in the county and the reply I got was that they didnt have the time to get him fit enough. We actually had another guy in the club make the panel and he wasn't half the hurler *X* was in terms of skill level but he was lightning fast and quite nippy. Hurler *X* is 20/21 now and is still an excellent club hurler, but I cant help but feel if he was taken on board at u14, given the right nutrional advice and guidance he would have made it as a county minor. Has anyone any view on this or a similar expierience? Maybe that was a once off, but I do feel as a county we are always short on big lads who can hurl. It is becoming a worrying trend for the majority of our teams, and based off the u17 and u20 teams from the weekend we dont have anyone in the mould of any of the current limerick forwards which in 2020 are the bench mark.

BostonRedSox (Wexford) - Posts: 61 - 21/12/2020 18:10:06    2325169

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Replying To BostonRedSox:  "Agree with Zinny re u17 is more about skills and general size than S&C. The majority of ground work for senior inter county S&C is done now from ages 18-22 before lads are really starting to hit their peak size at 23/24 which they then can maintain for the rest of their careers.
Worryingly however, was the actual physical size difference in our minors compared to Kilkenny. Once again we have a lot of small nice hurlers, but not one 'big' lad who can hurl and move. Kilkenny had several lads bigger than ours that could hurl and Cork and Limerick in Munster were the same. It is just a problem we seem to have in Wexford, regardless of S&C programmes it just seems to be we always have smaller teams. Is this simply down to a small size in regards to the general population of minors in the county, or is it a case we are neglecting guys u14-u16 because they carry some weight or are deemed too slow for a county team? I know a few years ago back when I was involved with my clubs u14 team a county u14 selector told me that *X* didn't make the panel as he was a stone or more overweight, despite him being exceptionally skillful with a great hand. I couldn't believe he wasnt in the top 30 hurlers at his grade in the county and the reply I got was that they didnt have the time to get him fit enough. We actually had another guy in the club make the panel and he wasn't half the hurler *X* was in terms of skill level but he was lightning fast and quite nippy. Hurler *X* is 20/21 now and is still an excellent club hurler, but I cant help but feel if he was taken on board at u14, given the right nutrional advice and guidance he would have made it as a county minor. Has anyone any view on this or a similar expierience? Maybe that was a once off, but I do feel as a county we are always short on big lads who can hurl. It is becoming a worrying trend for the majority of our teams, and based off the u17 and u20 teams from the weekend we dont have anyone in the mould of any of the current limerick forwards which in 2020 are the bench mark."
Good post. Point taken about natural size over S and C too. Not sure who is over the u14s but maybe they should take on board what you are saying there!

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 1379 - 21/12/2020 18:28:37    2325179

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Replying To BostonRedSox:  "Agree with Zinny re u17 is more about skills and general size than S&C. The majority of ground work for senior inter county S&C is done now from ages 18-22 before lads are really starting to hit their peak size at 23/24 which they then can maintain for the rest of their careers.
Worryingly however, was the actual physical size difference in our minors compared to Kilkenny. Once again we have a lot of small nice hurlers, but not one 'big' lad who can hurl and move. Kilkenny had several lads bigger than ours that could hurl and Cork and Limerick in Munster were the same. It is just a problem we seem to have in Wexford, regardless of S&C programmes it just seems to be we always have smaller teams. Is this simply down to a small size in regards to the general population of minors in the county, or is it a case we are neglecting guys u14-u16 because they carry some weight or are deemed too slow for a county team? I know a few years ago back when I was involved with my clubs u14 team a county u14 selector told me that *X* didn't make the panel as he was a stone or more overweight, despite him being exceptionally skillful with a great hand. I couldn't believe he wasnt in the top 30 hurlers at his grade in the county and the reply I got was that they didnt have the time to get him fit enough. We actually had another guy in the club make the panel and he wasn't half the hurler *X* was in terms of skill level but he was lightning fast and quite nippy. Hurler *X* is 20/21 now and is still an excellent club hurler, but I cant help but feel if he was taken on board at u14, given the right nutrional advice and guidance he would have made it as a county minor. Has anyone any view on this or a similar expierience? Maybe that was a once off, but I do feel as a county we are always short on big lads who can hurl. It is becoming a worrying trend for the majority of our teams, and based off the u17 and u20 teams from the weekend we dont have anyone in the mould of any of the current limerick forwards which in 2020 are the bench mark."
You've summed up a big problem.

Development squads unfortunately seldom focused on development.

From my experience I saw many really skillful, clever hurlers dropped off squads, but big, awkward, and ultimately useless hurlers kept on them because they were able to bully and physically dominate at under 14 and 15.

When they could no longer physically able to dominate they had no hurling development under their belt to adapt.

Managers simply wanted that type of player because they were only thinking short term. So what generally happened was that the management saw the end of year competition as a long term goal, rather than as only a very small part of a 5/6 year project.

Even though your player X had more potential, at that particular moment in time when they were selecting the panel, I can guarantee you that they weren't picking the panel with development in mind, they were picking the panel with only winning the next glorified blitz in mind, to massage egos.

890202 (Wexford) - Posts: 1215 - 21/12/2020 18:36:56    2325183

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Replying To 890202:  "You've summed up a big problem.

Development squads unfortunately seldom focused on development.

From my experience I saw many really skillful, clever hurlers dropped off squads, but big, awkward, and ultimately useless hurlers kept on them because they were able to bully and physically dominate at under 14 and 15.

When they could no longer physically able to dominate they had no hurling development under their belt to adapt.

Managers simply wanted that type of player because they were only thinking short term. So what generally happened was that the management saw the end of year competition as a long term goal, rather than as only a very small part of a 5/6 year project.

Even though your player X had more potential, at that particular moment in time when they were selecting the panel, I can guarantee you that they weren't picking the panel with development in mind, they were picking the panel with only winning the next glorified blitz in mind, to massage egos."
That's been going on for years. There a fella on my club who used to play underage for the county, built like Billy Bryne. On his own admission he was no where near good enough but he could bully lads at 16. Now he struggles to make our starting 15.

I know there a five year plan in place for development and surely the blueprint going forward is the Limerick model. The board have the finances now (not JP money I know) and should be investing it into underage development in both codes. I've also heard that there taking advice from the likes of Billy Walsh (we should get him more involved especially with S&C if possible) Kevin Doyle and other people who've been involved in professional sport which has to be a help.

Finchfurlong996 (Wexford) - Posts: 123 - 21/12/2020 19:47:18    2325215

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Replying To hunting:  "Massive pity for me is, we could and possible should have won that game and I cant help but think we left a minor leinster title behind us this year. As for the poster above cant think of your username O 15 or something, you are way off and been very harsh on the team"
you are right hunting.
but some people on here have an issue with everything relating to hurling,so you learn to ignore.

"Whether the structures or coaches are in place for that I highly doubt it.
Finchfurlong996"
so what are saying is wrong with the coaching or the structures?give us specifics-you cant peddle a loose argument about structures or coaches without backing it up with 1.what you believe is wrong with the structures 2. what you think is wrong with the coaching.
a lad with the build of billy byrne belongs on a junior team.that type of hurling ended in the 90s.

perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 22/12/2020 09:55:55    2325321

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Replying To perfect10:  "you are right hunting.
but some people on here have an issue with everything relating to hurling,so you learn to ignore.

"Whether the structures or coaches are in place for that I highly doubt it.
Finchfurlong996"
so what are saying is wrong with the coaching or the structures?give us specifics-you cant peddle a loose argument about structures or coaches without backing it up with 1.what you believe is wrong with the structures 2. what you think is wrong with the coaching.
a lad with the build of billy byrne belongs on a junior team.that type of hurling ended in the 90s."
Tumbleweed....

StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 935 - 02/01/2021 13:27:09    2325783

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HNY. Looks like we are looking at another massively disrupted year ahead.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 1379 - 03/01/2021 09:55:22    2325836

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Replying To Viking66:  "HNY. Looks like we are looking at another massively disrupted year ahead."
It does. So lets hope we blood new players, give fringe players game, time etc in the hope that 50-60k yellow bellies enjoy big days out in Croke Park in 2022 and have a panel to give an All Ireland an almighty rattle.

StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 935 - 04/01/2021 16:15:26    2325958

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Replying To StoreysTash:  "It does. So lets hope we blood new players, give fringe players game, time etc in the hope that 50-60k yellow bellies enjoy big days out in Croke Park in 2022 and have a panel to give an All Ireland an almighty rattle."
Sounds like a good plan! Cant wait to get back going to games.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 1379 - 04/01/2021 19:43:31    2326012

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Replying To bloodyban:  "There's nothing going on in Limerick that Wexford can't emulate. Its gotten organised and there's no factions. Limerick was always factions that didn't like each other. We always look at Kilkenny and how they row the same direction. Limerick is finally doing that now. The academy is going well,teaching guys how to lift weights properly at 13 and 14. How to follow a tactical instruction and the basics..
Limerick have an advantage in 2 areas over alot of counties. Money from JP. It makes a difference . There is nothing they can't get if they need it and straight away. Secondly is rugby. You won't hear the guys talk about it but in the city and around UL young players see what other young rugby players are doing around power weights and sprinting and standing jumps and nutrition. They train in the same schools . Theres 15,16 year old rugby players lifting 130 ,140 Kg bench press.. thats an eye opener for the hurlers and something to chase.
Ard Scoil are good in the city but we've only 1 Harty team in the whole county this year.we have to identify talent early and nurture it Cork have 5 or 6 harty teams.when Cork finally get their act together we are all screwed.
But again hurling is a minority sport in Limerick city ..a few decent clubs and 1 great one but it is a very sports orientated place. Everyone loves a winner. But don't let anyone fool you. Limerick have struck gold with the current crop all coming along together and having Hannon and Quaid with their vast experience. Limerick are lucky and they have Kinnerk...PHD type guy...hes like an American coach..different level"
I'd agree with a lot of this bar the "when cork get their act together we're all screwed" why? Cos of their fab underage teams? Where are they? Cork will always have great hurlers but so do other counties. . For me there is no secret in limericks success just more resources put into the game here and the biggest thing of all is confidence as already said money is a big factor and thankfully we have the sugar daddy for that but I'm sure there must be rich people in Wexford as well but it's not all about money of course too. Couldn't believe how bad Wexford were towards 2019 ye were so close that year no reason why ye can't be there or thereabouts this yr but ye need to unearth a few more natural forwards

someday (Limerick) - Posts: 1090 - 13/01/2021 22:50:13    2327326

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