This topic has been closed. No further posting is allowed.
|
Replying To seanorinn: "If we want to play with so many men behind the ball we need full forwards who can win the ball.
Johnston and McDermott are not those players and we need to keep at least one player on the half forward line
tom84 (Cavan) - Posts:119 - 06/02/2017 19:46:47 1952966
I hope to god that the negative football is dead and buried let's move forward and be positive. Even though we lost yesterday I don't think many if any left the park disappointed. You have to admit it was enjoyable wasn't it." I left disappointed Sean.
I didn't expect us to win but I did expect us to hold onto the ball a bit better, not kick frees straight to an opponent, not carry the ball into a group of 3/4 defenders and let them take it from us, not contest at midfield at all and not try for the hail Mary points. I was really disappointed. I didn't really see much improvement at all.
We would need to improve a lot to trouble Monaghan but hopefully we will. I think we were in awe of the Dubs.
Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 06/02/2017 21:34:39
1953046
Link
1
|
|
Replying To Awwwwnow: "Stephen Murray is definetely worth his place after Sunday's performance." Ah yeah maybe in for Gunner and move Brady back. What story with Niall Murray.
doratheexplorer (Cavan) - Posts: 1467 - 06/02/2017 21:36:29
1953049
Link
0
|
|
Replying To doratheexplorer: "Ah yeah maybe in for Gunner and move Brady back. What story with Niall Murray." I think he's injured
Awwwwnow (Cavan) - Posts: 1050 - 06/02/2017 21:43:48
1953058
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Awwwwnow: "I think he's injured" I think he's injured
Awwwwnow (Cavan) - Posts:823 - 06/02/2017 21:43:48 1953058
Nearly ready working hard at his recovery some dedicated young lad.
The Quiet Man (Cavan) - Posts: 4602 - 06/02/2017 21:58:07
1953067
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Cavan_Slasher: "I left disappointed Sean.
I didn't expect us to win but I did expect us to hold onto the ball a bit better, not kick frees straight to an opponent, not carry the ball into a group of 3/4 defenders and let them take it from us, not contest at midfield at all and not try for the hail Mary points. I was really disappointed. I didn't really see much improvement at all.
We would need to improve a lot to trouble Monaghan but hopefully we will. I think we were in awe of the Dubs." I left disappointed Sean.
I didn't expect us to win but I did expect us to hold onto the ball a bit better, not kick frees straight to an opponent, not carry the ball into a group of 3/4 defenders and let them take it from us, not contest at midfield at all and not try for the hail Mary points. I was really disappointed. I didn't really see much improvement at all.
We would need to improve a lot to trouble Monaghan but hopefully we will. I think we were in awe of the Dubs.
Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts:10053 - 06/02/2017 21:34:39 1953046
I agree and it has not gone unknown I can tell you.
The Quiet Man (Cavan) - Posts: 4602 - 06/02/2017 21:59:19
1953068
Link
0
|
|
Farrelly did well with the traditional goalkeeping duties. The kick-outs though were too traditional. Our midfield pairing never looked likely to win any any of them although to be fair it was probably really difficult to pick out a man. Players out the field need to be really switched on at the restart , they need to be constantly moving not static. We need super-fast kickouts to any man who is free to retain possession.
I though Stephen Murray and Niall McKiernan did enough to possibly get a start the next day. Fergal Reilly did well as did Gerry smith,
Not sure about Clerkin, he did some good things but is he going to score 2 or 3 points a game because that is what we need. Gearoid will be a big addition when he is fully fit. Agree with other posters assessment of K Clarke, I don't think he can tackle brilliantly in my opinion. but is definitely fit enough to play midfield . If you look at someone like Michael daragh McCauley who is very effective at midfield for Dublin and has been playing there regularly for years. It takes time for players to grow in to a position and possibly Killian's downfall has been his versatility. Agree also with posters about certain players not learning the futility of always carrying the ball in to tackles, It destroys a team. especially if you cant break tackles. There are very few players playing the game who can break 2 or 3 tacklers, possibly Michael Murphy, david Moran or Aidan O'Shea so why do Cavan players do it so often. Having said all that Dublin are a superb team, but then again so are Kerry,Mayo,Monaghan,Tyrone and Donegal were not that far off Kerry in the end. I think it's going to be really difficult to win any points in this league. Where are our scores going to come from. If Johnston gets 4 or 5, McDermott 2 or 3, Gerry smith 1 or 2. and the rest get 3 or 4 between them it's not going to win any games. That is why the likes of Mackey, Gearoid,Givney,Jack Brady,Keating are(were) such a big loss. Paul O' Connor can take a score , If he is fit I think he should be in there.
s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5524 - 07/02/2017 00:29:03
1953120
Link
0
|
|
Replying To s goldrick: "Farrelly did well with the traditional goalkeeping duties. The kick-outs though were too traditional. Our midfield pairing never looked likely to win any any of them although to be fair it was probably really difficult to pick out a man. Players out the field need to be really switched on at the restart , they need to be constantly moving not static. We need super-fast kickouts to any man who is free to retain possession.
I though Stephen Murray and Niall McKiernan did enough to possibly get a start the next day. Fergal Reilly did well as did Gerry smith,
Not sure about Clerkin, he did some good things but is he going to score 2 or 3 points a game because that is what we need. Gearoid will be a big addition when he is fully fit. Agree with other posters assessment of K Clarke, I don't think he can tackle brilliantly in my opinion. but is definitely fit enough to play midfield . If you look at someone like Michael daragh McCauley who is very effective at midfield for Dublin and has been playing there regularly for years. It takes time for players to grow in to a position and possibly Killian's downfall has been his versatility. Agree also with posters about certain players not learning the futility of always carrying the ball in to tackles, It destroys a team. especially if you cant break tackles. There are very few players playing the game who can break 2 or 3 tacklers, possibly Michael Murphy, david Moran or Aidan O'Shea so why do Cavan players do it so often. Having said all that Dublin are a superb team, but then again so are Kerry,Mayo,Monaghan,Tyrone and Donegal were not that far off Kerry in the end. I think it's going to be really difficult to win any points in this league. Where are our scores going to come from. If Johnston gets 4 or 5, McDermott 2 or 3, Gerry smith 1 or 2. and the rest get 3 or 4 between them it's not going to win any games. That is why the likes of Mackey, Gearoid,Givney,Jack Brady,Keating are(were) such a big loss. Paul O' Connor can take a score , If he is fit I think he should be in there." Cluxton kick outs were something else. Not the accuracy but how quick he had the ball on the 15 to kick out after every score or wide. He must have being placing the ball while ball is still midair. And Dublin players were always switched onto it.
doratheexplorer (Cavan) - Posts: 1467 - 07/02/2017 08:00:23
1953139
Link
0
|
|
The lack of a real top class forwards coach has been evident since we made the breakthrough at underage level in 2011.
Hopefully Mattie being a top class forward himself will change that when he gets more pitch time in the months ahead.
The last time we won the Ulster we had forwards like Donal Donohoe , Mickey Reilly and McHugh involved.
What I noticed on Sunday was a forward who was involved in 2011 u21s afraid to go down on a ball if there was opposition near him.
Mattie spotted this and made the substitution at half time.
Too many of the so called big players playing as individuals trying to do it all themselves, then running into blind alleys and getting turned over.
I can see some big changes where some so called untouchables might be left on the line .
Mattie does not seem to be afraid to make changes in his search to find the right balance.
Murray and Smith and Johnston and Faulkner really impressed.
I could see Murray doing a job on McManus next weekend.
We seem wide open up the middle just like previous years and that puts a lot of pressure on the full backline.
Clarke in full forward might be an option as I don't see a place for him anywhere else.
Awwwwnow (Cavan) - Posts: 1050 - 07/02/2017 09:54:53
1953164
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Awwwwnow: "The lack of a real top class forwards coach has been evident since we made the breakthrough at underage level in 2011.
Hopefully Mattie being a top class forward himself will change that when he gets more pitch time in the months ahead.
The last time we won the Ulster we had forwards like Donal Donohoe , Mickey Reilly and McHugh involved.
What I noticed on Sunday was a forward who was involved in 2011 u21s afraid to go down on a ball if there was opposition near him.
Mattie spotted this and made the substitution at half time.
Too many of the so called big players playing as individuals trying to do it all themselves, then running into blind alleys and getting turned over.
I can see some big changes where some so called untouchables might be left on the line .
Mattie does not seem to be afraid to make changes in his search to find the right balance.
Murray and Smith and Johnston and Faulkner really impressed.
I could see Murray doing a job on McManus next weekend.
We seem wide open up the middle just like previous years and that puts a lot of pressure on the full backline.
Clarke in full forward might be an option as I don't see a place for him anywhere else." Awwwwnow, i think if Michael argue was worked on and made more aggressive , I mean work on his power , he could be some full forward, he can score, he's 6_ 5 good hands , condition him for no 14 .
blueman1903 (Cavan) - Posts: 885 - 07/02/2017 10:42:55
1953189
Link
1
|
|
Replying To Awwwwnow: "The lack of a real top class forwards coach has been evident since we made the breakthrough at underage level in 2011.
Hopefully Mattie being a top class forward himself will change that when he gets more pitch time in the months ahead.
The last time we won the Ulster we had forwards like Donal Donohoe , Mickey Reilly and McHugh involved.
What I noticed on Sunday was a forward who was involved in 2011 u21s afraid to go down on a ball if there was opposition near him.
Mattie spotted this and made the substitution at half time.
Too many of the so called big players playing as individuals trying to do it all themselves, then running into blind alleys and getting turned over.
I can see some big changes where some so called untouchables might be left on the line .
Mattie does not seem to be afraid to make changes in his search to find the right balance.
Murray and Smith and Johnston and Faulkner really impressed.
I could see Murray doing a job on McManus next weekend.
We seem wide open up the middle just like previous years and that puts a lot of pressure on the full backline.
Clarke in full forward might be an option as I don't see a place for him anywhere else." Awwwnow. What did you think of mattie playing backs as forwards? Martin Reilly at wing back and ctr back? What about playing a Full Back at midfield? What about moving McVetty into Full forward.
What about the fact that Mattie had 13 men behind the ball at all times, counter attacked with no pace whatsoever and passed the ball over and back allowing Dublin to filter back?
I thought you had very strong opinions on this type of stuff and you called for the previous managers head because in your eyes he did exactly what we did on Sunday - only his teams did it better.
I find it hard to understand how Mattie is getting positive vibes from you and the previous manager was the worst in the world yet nothing has changed at all. Its almost like you had a vendetta for the last manager???
fredflint (Cavan) - Posts: 1485 - 07/02/2017 10:53:02
1953195
Link
2
|
|
Next Sunday is going to be a completely different game! I think it will be physical and the 2 men that I would be absolutely bringing in would be Mossy Corr and I think Stephen Murray has done enough also. Not sure if Gearoid is ready for a start. I would definitely have Rory Dunne full back with Clarke and Falukner in the corners which would shore up the defence. Shane O'Rourke may be worth a start or McKiernan. Buchanan is missed now as I would certainly have him in there. I don't think we need to make any wholesale changes. McGleenan says that they are training and playing very well behind the scenes - no need to panic after losing to Dublin. If we can go up and get a win in Blaney you just wait to see the difference in opinion and attitude on here. I think we can win there. Get up there everyone and get behind the team. The league proper starts now!!
Reformation (Cavan) - Posts: 357 - 07/02/2017 11:01:04
1953197
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Awwwwnow: "The lack of a real top class forwards coach has been evident since we made the breakthrough at underage level in 2011.
Hopefully Mattie being a top class forward himself will change that when he gets more pitch time in the months ahead.
The last time we won the Ulster we had forwards like Donal Donohoe , Mickey Reilly and McHugh involved.
What I noticed on Sunday was a forward who was involved in 2011 u21s afraid to go down on a ball if there was opposition near him.
Mattie spotted this and made the substitution at half time.
Too many of the so called big players playing as individuals trying to do it all themselves, then running into blind alleys and getting turned over.
I can see some big changes where some so called untouchables might be left on the line .
Mattie does not seem to be afraid to make changes in his search to find the right balance.
Murray and Smith and Johnston and Faulkner really impressed.
I could see Murray doing a job on McManus next weekend.
We seem wide open up the middle just like previous years and that puts a lot of pressure on the full backline.
Clarke in full forward might be an option as I don't see a place for him anywhere else." Clarke had time at FF against Tyrone (I think it was) last year and it didn't work. I can't see a place for him other than a wing-forward as a ball-winner (kickouts) coming into midfield and giving it in quickly. His shooting is also poor for Cavan although he can score (at Intermediate level) for Shercock.
I believe the best place for Argue is at midfield.
opa01 (Cavan) - Posts: 558 - 07/02/2017 11:26:47
1953207
Link
0
|
|
Fredflint that's Matties first real competitive game . We had 4 years of the previous managerplus a few years as selector and there wasn't much change.
At least Faulkner can get his place under Mattie and rightly so. Our best defender. He didn't get much game time last year for some reason.
Did Smith play last year??
That's 2 finds in first game .. And Stephen Murray too that's 3.
Can't believe those 3 weren't involved last year.
Give Mattie time .. the previous manager got more than his fair share of time ..
Fredflint you must be delighted Seanie is still knocking them over. I know your a big fan of his .
Awwwwnow (Cavan) - Posts: 1050 - 07/02/2017 11:28:21
1953209
Link
0
|
|
Replying To doratheexplorer: "Cluxton kick outs were something else. Not the accuracy but how quick he had the ball on the 15 to kick out after every score or wide. He must have being placing the ball while ball is still midair. And Dublin players were always switched onto it." Its something we've been doing for years, I know that in soccer Barcelona had a 6 second rule whereby if they lost the ball they would train to win it back in 6 seconds and basically suffocate their knackered opponents. I also know that in our training they have a 4-7 second rule whereby, when a ball goes dead the goalkeeper has 4-7 seconds to release the ball from the resulting kick out. Unless you are looking out for it in game, its not something you will notice a lot of the time when you are so engrossed in the game but Stephen Cluxton will judge a ball that's just left a players boot and whether he thinks its going over for a score, or wide, he knows its out of his control now and he will turn away in the split seconds before the ball dissects or goes wide of the posts, pick up another ball and have it on his tee or on the ground 4 seconds at the earliest and 7 seconds at the latest ready to start play again. While the ball is in the air, the midfield and half forward line will already be moving off their men trying to create space and make the pitch as wide as possible, leaving gaps in the middle for our Centre half back to pick a ball up unchallenged, or one of our full forward line to drift into the centre. Stephens vision is immense and 9 times out of 10 his vision and train of thought will be quicker than anyone on the opposition team and the ball is back in play quickly, giving the opposition no time at all to rest. Its worked on religiously.
Its these little moments of concentration and everyone being switched on that makes the difference. Seanie Johnston hit an unbelievable score in the first half, think it was to give Cavan a lead 0-05 to 0-04 into the town end from an angle. I watched out the field just as the ball went between the posts, I saw Kevin McManamon, Brian Fenton and Ciaran sprint out to the far side of the field where the space was, while Cavan players stood and admired, The 3 Dubs switched on ready for the resulting kickout, two of their men stood with hands on hips and fentons man went with him, Fenton won the ball stopped for the mark, turned, gave to Kilkenny who got himself free, he gave it McManamon, who got himself free, and he set up Whelan for the score and within 14 seconds, Dublin had gone from conceding a point to levelling it up.
Its a joy to watch at time, When you think none of those lads played football together since October the 1st and they are only back two weeks from the Caribbean, to just produce a moment like that was amazing.
From my point of view, seeing Dublin and just how good we can be, that was a pretty poor performance. It was very sloppy at times, a bit static/labored in the build up. I thought Cavan dug in and showed good commitment. Teams will be rolled over a lot easier than Cavan in the weeks/months to come, for me there is a lot of promise there, I don't understand the negativity.
waynoI (Dublin) - Posts: 13671 - 07/02/2017 11:31:15
1953212
Link
1
|
|
Replying To Reformation: "Next Sunday is going to be a completely different game! I think it will be physical and the 2 men that I would be absolutely bringing in would be Mossy Corr and I think Stephen Murray has done enough also. Not sure if Gearoid is ready for a start. I would definitely have Rory Dunne full back with Clarke and Falukner in the corners which would shore up the defence. Shane O'Rourke may be worth a start or McKiernan. Buchanan is missed now as I would certainly have him in there. I don't think we need to make any wholesale changes. McGleenan says that they are training and playing very well behind the scenes - no need to panic after losing to Dublin. If we can go up and get a win in Blaney you just wait to see the difference in opinion and attitude on here. I think we can win there. Get up there everyone and get behind the team. The league proper starts now!!" So your dropping Reilly who held Mannion scoreless?
doratheexplorer (Cavan) - Posts: 1467 - 07/02/2017 11:33:50
1953216
Link
0
|
|
Awwnow this is where you get caught out not going to games. Faulkner played for almost the entire league campaign last year. Gerry Smith was recovering from a broken leg and got game time in the Championship.
So far, the team isn't as solid or as purposeful or as attack orientated as it was during the last two years of Hyland's tenure.
Mattie deserves time and we need to remember he's playing from a limited hand. Nevertheless, his first few months have been lacklustre.
Inactive x5 (Cavan) - Posts: 1452 - 07/02/2017 11:37:22
1953218
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Reformation: "Next Sunday is going to be a completely different game! I think it will be physical and the 2 men that I would be absolutely bringing in would be Mossy Corr and I think Stephen Murray has done enough also. Not sure if Gearoid is ready for a start. I would definitely have Rory Dunne full back with Clarke and Falukner in the corners which would shore up the defence. Shane O'Rourke may be worth a start or McKiernan. Buchanan is missed now as I would certainly have him in there. I don't think we need to make any wholesale changes. McGleenan says that they are training and playing very well behind the scenes - no need to panic after losing to Dublin. If we can go up and get a win in Blaney you just wait to see the difference in opinion and attitude on here. I think we can win there. Get up there everyone and get behind the team. The league proper starts now!!" I like your full back line, Clarke, dunne, Falkner, with McLaughlin and Reilly as cover.
blueman1903 (Cavan) - Posts: 885 - 07/02/2017 11:52:29
1953227
Link
0
|
|
If argue and N Murray was fit for Sunday I'd go along these lines
1 Galligan
2F Reilly
3 Faulkner
4 Murray to mark McManus
5 K Brady
6 Moynagh
7 N Murray
8 Argue
9 N Mc Kiernan
10 Mc Vitty provided he stops running up blind alleys
11 G McKiernan provided he stops trying to do it all himself
12 Smith
13 Clerkin or O Connor
14 Clarke to stay in an win his ball
15 Johnston
Madden and O Rourke will improve with game time. Madden could be an option to replace Clarke at FF.
A few weeks on the line might do M Reilly and McDermott the world of good.
Those 2 might be better impact subs than over 70 mins.
Where's Tom Hayes? Could be an option in the corner.
We are struggling at Centre half back too.
I'd prefer Moynagh on the wing but there not much else for the centre
Awwwwnow (Cavan) - Posts: 1050 - 07/02/2017 12:16:22
1953233
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Awwwwnow: "If argue and N Murray was fit for Sunday I'd go along these lines
1 Galligan
2F Reilly
3 Faulkner
4 Murray to mark McManus
5 K Brady
6 Moynagh
7 N Murray
8 Argue
9 N Mc Kiernan
10 Mc Vitty provided he stops running up blind alleys
11 G McKiernan provided he stops trying to do it all himself
12 Smith
13 Clerkin or O Connor
14 Clarke to stay in an win his ball
15 Johnston
Madden and O Rourke will improve with game time. Madden could be an option to replace Clarke at FF.
A few weeks on the line might do M Reilly and McDermott the world of good.
Those 2 might be better impact subs than over 70 mins.
Where's Tom Hayes? Could be an option in the corner.
We are struggling at Centre half back too.
I'd prefer Moynagh on the wing but there not much else for the centre" I wouldn't say Geroid has a full game in him yet.
doratheexplorer (Cavan) - Posts: 1467 - 07/02/2017 14:05:22
1953289
Link
0
|
|
Replying To doratheexplorer: "I wouldn't say Geroid has a full game in him yet." He probably hasn't alright. Thought Mattie would have stuck him in full forward when he came on last Sunday , maybe win some ball or a few handy frees. He looked a bit out of sorts but that's understandable after no pre season game time.
He needs to get rid of the ball sooner as he's not fit enough to be taking players on.
Awwwwnow (Cavan) - Posts: 1050 - 07/02/2017 14:47:23
1953301
Link
0
|