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David Gough To Referee The Final

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Replying To Joxer:  "Gerry, the Stephen O'Brien incident was outside the box. Cooper put his hand on Clifford's shoulder for the penalty. If that happened up the field would you expect a free? No. O'Sullivan took his man down. It was probably a black not yellow. No complaints though. I'm sure the calls will even themselves out over the two games."
There were two fouls on Steven, one outside, one inside. Either would have done fine in a game where scores were hard got.

Cooper did a lot more that put a hand on Cliffords shoulder, he had a hold of his jersey and took him out of the play allowing Cluxton a clean catch. Penalty all day long, the rules are clear, albeit it's one that you'd get away with quite a bit. Most defenders would be a lot more cute / subtle in that scenario but I think he had lost the head a bit as he was in all sorts of bother from the throw in.

Small dived for that incident with O'Sullivan, it's clear as day in the replay. Tom has a hand in but Small threw himself up in the air as if he'd been shot. It would have been a very harsh yellow imo and they explained why he wasn't booked on TSG.

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 1748 - 02/09/2019 10:57:31    2231760

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Gough made a few mistakes yesterday, Copper was correct call , penalty should have been retaken as Clouxton came off his line, O Sullivan should have got second yellow for that foul and thus a red , and Barry should have got a Red for striking a Dublin player with closed fist in the ribs .

culmore (None) - Posts: 1398 - 02/09/2019 11:09:14    2231764

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In my opinion Gough had a very good game. No referee will call everything perfect for the entire duration of a game but he came close enough. My thoughts on the "contentious" points raised here:

The penalty - in my opinion it was a penalty. Ok some weaker referees might not give it but you can clearly see Cooper holding Clifford for about a sec as the ball is in the air. He actually made the decision easier for the ref because for that sec Cooper turns his back on the ball which would clearly indicate to the ref he is playing the man and not the ball. Cluxton comes off his line and by the letter of the law it should be retaken. Don't think I have ever seen a ref blow for it though. Geaney should be more annoyed for what was a poorly struck penalty.

Cooper red - Cooper only has himself to blame. On a yellow and grabs on to Clifford's arm pulling him down. Technically the second offence was a black card but he would still have seen the line. Gough was clearly focusing on players holding, particularly off the ball which I was delighted to see. As for O'Sullivan and whether he should have seen red. I think it was a tight call. He was certainly skating on thin ice. The last foul he committed looked worse in real time as it looked high but replays showed it wasn't. I think that's why he got away without a second yellow.

Foul on O'Brien - I thought it was a foul as McCaffrey appeared to wrap his arms around him from behind and drag him back. It should have been a free in. No penalty as the foul was committed outside the box.

No awarding of "fouls" to Kerry in added time - I didn't see any fouls on Kerry players that won Dublin turnovers in added time. It was a mixture of very good tackling and Kerry being very naive. Failed to use the extra man and tried running in to and breaking tackles which backfired. Poor game management from Kerry in added time when they had the 1 point lead.

lady_gaagaa (Westmeath) - Posts: 74 - 02/09/2019 11:20:00    2231772

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Who will ref replay? Will Kerry launch high ball into square again? They obviously saw Gough give a peno to Murphy v mayo from the same tactic. Will all refs go by the letter of the law as Gough did yesterday...I think he had a very brave game.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3744 - 02/09/2019 11:29:29    2231779

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Replying To culmore:  "Gough made a few mistakes yesterday, Copper was correct call , penalty should have been retaken as Clouxton came off his line, O Sullivan should have got second yellow for that foul and thus a red , and Barry should have got a Red for striking a Dublin player with closed fist in the ribs ."
Under what rule should O'Sullivan have been sent off? The offence is listed as a free and tick in the rules as far as I can see. Someone said that 'ticks' or 'notes' are just something that refs have come up with themselves. I hope they are not a referee.

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 1748 - 02/09/2019 11:30:05    2231780

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I wouldn't say I'm happy after yesterday but I think Dublin will be relatively pleased considering it was 14 v 15 for over 40 minutes and Kerry were the ones hanging on at the end really.
Think the penalty was soft enough. Cluxton did well overall with two great saves. Ok, he was off line but balanced the call for the penalty in the first place.
Jack was brilliant and the outstanding outfield player for Dublin.
Think O'sullivan can count himself lucky he didn't get the line.
A few Dubs need to step up Saturday week as they were not 100% yesterday by their usual standards.
I'd be confident they can bring it though and with 15 back for the whole game I'd give us a great chance.

Dubh_linn (Dublin) - Posts: 2164 - 02/09/2019 11:37:48    2231784

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Replying To lady_gaagaa:  "In my opinion Gough had a very good game. No referee will call everything perfect for the entire duration of a game but he came close enough. My thoughts on the "contentious" points raised here:

The penalty - in my opinion it was a penalty. Ok some weaker referees might not give it but you can clearly see Cooper holding Clifford for about a sec as the ball is in the air. He actually made the decision easier for the ref because for that sec Cooper turns his back on the ball which would clearly indicate to the ref he is playing the man and not the ball. Cluxton comes off his line and by the letter of the law it should be retaken. Don't think I have ever seen a ref blow for it though. Geaney should be more annoyed for what was a poorly struck penalty.

Cooper red - Cooper only has himself to blame. On a yellow and grabs on to Clifford's arm pulling him down. Technically the second offence was a black card but he would still have seen the line. Gough was clearly focusing on players holding, particularly off the ball which I was delighted to see. As for O'Sullivan and whether he should have seen red. I think it was a tight call. He was certainly skating on thin ice. The last foul he committed looked worse in real time as it looked high but replays showed it wasn't. I think that's why he got away without a second yellow.

Foul on O'Brien - I thought it was a foul as McCaffrey appeared to wrap his arms around him from behind and drag him back. It should have been a free in. No penalty as the foul was committed outside the box.

No awarding of "fouls" to Kerry in added time - I didn't see any fouls on Kerry players that won Dublin turnovers in added time. It was a mixture of very good tackling and Kerry being very naive. Failed to use the extra man and tried running in to and breaking tackles which backfired. Poor game management from Kerry in added time when they had the 1 point lead."
Excellent post and would agree with everything you have said. It was a great game and the ref also had a very good game overall. Looking forward to the replay.

Mobot (Donegal) - Posts: 459 - 02/09/2019 11:42:24    2231788

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Replying To culmore:  "Gough made a few mistakes yesterday, Copper was correct call , penalty should have been retaken as Clouxton came off his line, O Sullivan should have got second yellow for that foul and thus a red , and Barry should have got a Red for striking a Dublin player with closed fist in the ribs ."
Have to agree about O Sullivan. The rule seems to be that when you get a ticking the next offence is yellow and a subsequent offence is red. Mc Stay on the radio this morning said if people don't agree with Cooper's sending off they don't know the ules around "ticking".
How then could O Sullivan get a ticking (which he clearly did) after being yellow carded?
Sauce for the goose

mhunicean_abu (Monaghan) - Posts: 766 - 02/09/2019 11:43:39    2231789

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Gough was excellent, end of story. Impossible job.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 6586 - 02/09/2019 12:00:43    2231799

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Replying To GeniusGerry:  "There were two fouls on Steven, one outside, one inside. Either would have done fine in a game where scores were hard got.

Cooper did a lot more that put a hand on Cliffords shoulder, he had a hold of his jersey and took him out of the play allowing Cluxton a clean catch. Penalty all day long, the rules are clear, albeit it's one that you'd get away with quite a bit. Most defenders would be a lot more cute / subtle in that scenario but I think he had lost the head a bit as he was in all sorts of bother from the throw in.

Small dived for that incident with O'Sullivan, it's clear as day in the replay. Tom has a hand in but Small threw himself up in the air as if he'd been shot. It would have been a very harsh yellow imo and they explained why he wasn't booked on TSG."
We'll agree to disagree Gerry. I haven't heard any analyst claiming that Small dived. He was spinning at the time and O'Sullivan dragged his arm to take him down. Everyone has said that Cooper's penalty was harsh. That grappling happens everywhere on the pitch without a whistle and to award a penalty for it in a AI final? Very questionable. These are huge calls.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4227 - 02/09/2019 12:10:35    2231811

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Replying To mhunicean_abu:  "Have to agree about O Sullivan. The rule seems to be that when you get a ticking the next offence is yellow and a subsequent offence is red. Mc Stay on the radio this morning said if people don't agree with Cooper's sending off they don't know the ules around "ticking".
How then could O Sullivan get a ticking (which he clearly did) after being yellow carded?
Sauce for the goose"
Nothing in the rules to say you can't get a tick after a yellow. Ref also has discretion if he deems a foul to be accidental, i.e. a genuine attempt to tackle and dispossess the opponent.

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 1748 - 02/09/2019 12:18:20    2231817

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A piece on I think rte radio yesterday said in the past 5 or 6 years Dublin have had all the major calls in finals in their favour, Gough wasn't a ref in any of those finals and yesterday I think majority of people agree that Gough had a good game where major calls went 50/50, got an odd call wrong but far ahead of refs in other finals in the past 10 years, I'm afraid whoever gets the replay we already know the result 5 in a row, Gough is the best referee and other refs will get certain calls wrong and as well documented Dublin will get the major calls in their favour so expect the drive for 5 to succeed

riverboys (Mayo) - Posts: 1389 - 02/09/2019 12:30:48    2231827

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Thought Gough was very good overall. Not perfect, but sure what ref is perfect? He missed some but overall I think the big decisions he made were right. The only huge one I think he got wrong was the Stephen O'Brien penalty incident, it's at the very least a free in.

I thought he made the right call on Tom O'Sullivan, and for folks saying he bottled it etc., refs love to even things up. The braver thing to do is not to flash a second yellow there.

JoeSoap (Donegal) - Posts: 976 - 02/09/2019 12:32:08    2231829

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Replying To GeniusGerry:  "Nothing in the rules to say you can't get a tick after a yellow. Ref also has discretion if he deems a foul to be accidental, i.e. a genuine attempt to tackle and dispossess the opponent."
You could be right I'm not sure of the rule, but if you are sure a tick can be given after a yellow, then so be it,
I thought, and I'm open to correction, that on this occasion he has to give just a free, like for some of the incidents you outlined, or book the player for consistent fouling.

mhunicean_abu (Monaghan) - Posts: 766 - 02/09/2019 12:34:06    2231833

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Replying To Joxer:  "We'll agree to disagree Gerry. I haven't heard any analyst claiming that Small dived. He was spinning at the time and O'Sullivan dragged his arm to take him down. Everyone has said that Cooper's penalty was harsh. That grappling happens everywhere on the pitch without a whistle and to award a penalty for it in a AI final? Very questionable. These are huge calls."
It's a huge call but at the end of the day it's a foul. Similar to Murphy v Mayo, people call it soft but if a defender is wrapped up around the forward and not looking at the ball, what's the ref supposed to do? I think people are calling it soft and a huge call because most refs don't give it - and they don't give it because they're not brave enough to give it.

Whatever else about Gough, he's not afraid to make a big decision regardless of the circumstances.

JoeSoap (Donegal) - Posts: 976 - 02/09/2019 12:38:13    2231836

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Great performance from Gough

kerryforsam19 (Kerry) - Posts: 95 - 02/09/2019 15:13:31    2231928

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He did a decent job for me.

I hope all those who questioned his integrity during the build up have a word with themselves.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 12876 - 02/09/2019 16:18:07    2231952

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Replying To JoeSoap:  "Thought Gough was very good overall. Not perfect, but sure what ref is perfect? He missed some but overall I think the big decisions he made were right. The only huge one I think he got wrong was the Stephen O'Brien penalty incident, it's at the very least a free in.

I thought he made the right call on Tom O'Sullivan, and for folks saying he bottled it etc., refs love to even things up. The braver thing to do is not to flash a second yellow there."
Yeah but as fans, we don't care if ref makes 'brave' decisons as we prefer correct ones (where possible , I know they can't be pefect). Same for 'evening it up' way of looking at it. We all respect consistency, He was not consistent there . Either O'Sullivans was a yellow or else no other similar tackles should have been. Judge the tackle as it was. Have just rewatched the game and to me it was a yellow card. Gough's take on things or being brave shouldn't come into making the correct decision.

Dinosbar&grill (Dublin) - Posts: 23 - 02/09/2019 16:18:13    2231953

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Replying To Dinosbar&grill:  "Yeah but as fans, we don't care if ref makes 'brave' decisons as we prefer correct ones (where possible , I know they can't be pefect). Same for 'evening it up' way of looking at it. We all respect consistency, He was not consistent there . Either O'Sullivans was a yellow or else no other similar tackles should have been. Judge the tackle as it was. Have just rewatched the game and to me it was a yellow card. Gough's take on things or being brave shouldn't come into making the correct decision."
I think it wasn't a yellow card, being honest. He hadn't fouled as consistently as Cooper had on Clifford, and that's really what Cooper saw the line for, rather than any one particular foul.

I don't think I'd have criticised Gough too much if he'd sent O'Sullivan to the line either, but on balance I think it was a fair decision. If O'Sullivan had another foul I think there's no doubt he'd have seen red. To me that is pretty consistent from Gough.

I only mentioned brave because of some insinuations that he bottled showing O'Sullivan a red. I think it's the opposite.

JoeSoap (Donegal) - Posts: 976 - 02/09/2019 16:27:47    2231959

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Replying To Dinosbar&grill:  "Yeah but as fans, we don't care if ref makes 'brave' decisons as we prefer correct ones (where possible , I know they can't be pefect). Same for 'evening it up' way of looking at it. We all respect consistency, He was not consistent there . Either O'Sullivans was a yellow or else no other similar tackles should have been. Judge the tackle as it was. Have just rewatched the game and to me it was a yellow card. Gough's take on things or being brave shouldn't come into making the correct decision."
So you think the penalty should have been retaken? You know seeing as you're all for consistency

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 339 - 02/09/2019 16:40:21    2231967

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