National Forum

Proposals For 2Nd Tier Championship Pathetic

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Replying To Tacaí Liatroma:  "TG4 being in Irish wouldn't put anyone off who wanted to watch it. If there's a GAA game on the telly and you're interested in it, you'll watch it even if it's in Klingon."
I think your speaking for the minority there

DuhallowRed (Cork) - Posts: 146 - 19/10/2019 21:57:04    2244468

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As predicted at the start of this thread, Congress would never vote against a Presedential proposal no matter how bad it is & despite all the protestations from the CPA & GPA, they would be taught who the real power brokers are in the GAA & so Tier 2 got over 75% of the vote from Congress. Congress were sending them a signal that they were in charge, just as they did with the motion on transparency.
The insult heaped on the Fixtures Schedule Committee by not allowing them finish & publish their report before voting on Tier 2 just emphasises that they don't care about club players & fixture schedules. The Committee is only a smokescreen to appear as if something is being done.
What is intersting is that some counties delegates who voted for this do so for political enhancement at GAA level rather than for the betterment of their county, these same people will be bitching in two years time when GAA is dead at club & county level in their counties. You won't even know how your delegates voted either as they ensured that last year by delivering a similar put down on transparency motion.
The main aim of the GAA was achieved today following on from their introduction of the Super 8's, that is that they have the elite teams playing each other more often to enhance what the TV rights companies want & to gain financially from that.
As for the arrogance displayed by the driver of this in rushing this through as the legacy & the "look I'm the guy with the power who gets things done.The disdain shown by dismissing all concerns by the Fixtures Schedules Committee, CPA & GPA on this matter shows that this was all about ego.
The leadership of the GAA is now taking the Association in a direction that people will now have to ask themselves, is this something I want to be a part of, the drive to elitism.
The second question that must now be asked is that if Congress is the embodiment of democracy within the GAA, is it really democratic at all ?

moc.dna (Galway) - Posts: 1072 - 19/10/2019 22:17:36    2244471

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Now that Horan has got his way it is only a matter of time until the present 16 who are 'guaranteed' tier 1 football will be whittled down to a Super 10 or 12 for a fully covered Sky 'championship' and to hell with the rest of the country, they may be admitted to the elite group by meeting criteria not exactly compatible with ability but with their ability to generate lucre for Sky and by a then unrecognisable GAA.....mark my words....this is where we are going. Disgraceful, sad to see chickens from the weaker counties acting like lemmings.

MillerX (Meath) - Posts: 765 - 19/10/2019 22:23:22    2244472

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This is all about less games in qualifiers for the division one counties who are knocked out early in provincials ie Ulster, leaving them fresher for the super eights. It is a smokescreen and the 'weaker' counties who voted for it have fallen for it. They will be in a tier 2 final in front of 7 or 8,000 people in Croke Park, what benefit is that going to be to any of them.

fairly_shook (Leitrim) - Posts: 15 - 19/10/2019 22:44:08    2244473

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Replying To Hawkeye9212:  "Wait until the Fixtures Review release their proposals."
Yup that's exactly what should happen.

The status quo is bad, but better than what has gone through.

I'm not against a tiering of the football. I'm against this competition. The tier 1 is not good either.

A number of the teams around the level of Cork, Tipp, Down, Armagh, Clare, Westmeath, Fermanagh will be in this tier 2.

All these teams are capable of getting a run in the championship and qualifying for the super 8s. There's not much between teams ranked about 8 to 22. Given the right draw these teams can get to a super 8s.

That's more prestigious than a Tommy Murphy 2 competition win.

Waterford are still going to play 2 games a season by the way.

It's doing nothing for the teams it's supposed to promote.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3214 - 20/10/2019 00:57:30    2244479

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Replying To edu:  "I reckon the teams in nexts season division 2 will be looking to be relegated and the teams in division 3 will be looking to be not promoted so the will be able to play in this new all ireland championship. It will realisticlly be the only chance some of these counties have of ever winning an all Ireland championship.
By the way this tier 2 championship should be called the all Ireland intermediate championship. There is nothing like the title of all Ireland in the name of a competition.The Tommy Murphy cup sounded just like a tournament."
I don't think so.

I think people are smart enough to realise that this is going to be a competition no one cares about.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3214 - 20/10/2019 01:00:46    2244480

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Replying To moc.dna:  "As predicted at the start of this thread, Congress would never vote against a Presedential proposal no matter how bad it is & despite all the protestations from the CPA & GPA, they would be taught who the real power brokers are in the GAA & so Tier 2 got over 75% of the vote from Congress. Congress were sending them a signal that they were in charge, just as they did with the motion on transparency.
The insult heaped on the Fixtures Schedule Committee by not allowing them finish & publish their report before voting on Tier 2 just emphasises that they don't care about club players & fixture schedules. The Committee is only a smokescreen to appear as if something is being done.
What is intersting is that some counties delegates who voted for this do so for political enhancement at GAA level rather than for the betterment of their county, these same people will be bitching in two years time when GAA is dead at club & county level in their counties. You won't even know how your delegates voted either as they ensured that last year by delivering a similar put down on transparency motion.
The main aim of the GAA was achieved today following on from their introduction of the Super 8's, that is that they have the elite teams playing each other more often to enhance what the TV rights companies want & to gain financially from that.
As for the arrogance displayed by the driver of this in rushing this through as the legacy & the "look I'm the guy with the power who gets things done.The disdain shown by dismissing all concerns by the Fixtures Schedules Committee, CPA & GPA on this matter shows that this was all about ego.
The leadership of the GAA is now taking the Association in a direction that people will now have to ask themselves, is this something I want to be a part of, the drive to elitism.
The second question that must now be asked is that if Congress is the embodiment of democracy within the GAA, is it really democratic at all ?"
We've had plenty of disagreements on other topics on here but I can't fault a word you're saying here

I'm glad Antrim we're against it, I've friends on the senior panel from home. They don't want this.

I texted one of them after they beat Louth in the qualifiers this year. He wanted to play Mayo in round 2.

These lads don't care about a competition where no one will care about the winners. They want to play against good teams and challenge themselves against the top players is what drives them.

This idea that having a shot at winning a medal is important is a lot of rubbish.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3214 - 20/10/2019 01:07:11    2244481

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Replying To fairly_shook:  "This is all about less games in qualifiers for the division one counties who are knocked out early in provincials ie Ulster, leaving them fresher for the super eights. It is a smokescreen and the 'weaker' counties who voted for it have fallen for it. They will be in a tier 2 final in front of 7 or 8,000 people in Croke Park, what benefit is that going to be to any of them."
Yes that's the main driver of it. Horan practically said as much recently at a meeting with Connacht delegates.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3214 - 20/10/2019 01:08:56    2244482

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Replying To fairly_shook:  "This is all about less games in qualifiers for the division one counties who are knocked out early in provincials ie Ulster, leaving them fresher for the super eights. It is a smokescreen and the 'weaker' counties who voted for it have fallen for it. They will be in a tier 2 final in front of 7 or 8,000 people in Croke Park, what benefit is that going to be to any of them."
This was never about benefitting the weaker counties. The GAA is now all about elitism and the weaker counties are standing in the way of progress in that direction so will be discarded. Congress has compounded it's decision to vote against transparency a few years ago and shown itself to be out of touch with GAA grassroots to a ridiculous degree.

If the members of the other fixtures group have any guts they should remove themselves from that group tomorrow morning as their analysis into what's required is obviously nothing compared to Dublin John's insight. It's not an ego thing with him as dubs don't have egos according to Tadhg Kennelly who moved back from oz to see if he could do anything to help his struggling county.

Horan's comments about Leitrim and Wicklow and his earlier ones about Dublin's volunteers have taught me something though. I had thought trolling was something you could only do in the internet but he's shown you can do it in real life too.

The bright side is that they have also introduced this advance mark so that will make it easier to give up going to/watching the games as it will be AFL lite and that muck is unwatchable most of the time.

Greenfield (Meath) - Posts: 419 - 20/10/2019 02:29:44    2244485

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Right or wrong it's in now so we need to make the best of it, makes div 2 and 3 very important next year too. I'd hope the ticket prices are such that people will attend. Everyone is still in the snr championship if good enough and this just might encourage more players to commit knowing they have a competition the can realistically hope to win.

lillyboy (Kildare) - Posts: 426 - 20/10/2019 09:19:52    2244493

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worst decision for me is the advanced mark, it is shocking that these rule changes are now happening, I wont even go on I could be here all day. enough of this change sh*te. Our game is our game

boman11 (Antrim) - Posts: 237 - 20/10/2019 09:44:37    2244496

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I am sick of hoping Wicklow get a kind draw in the qualifiers every year. Not that we win anyway.

The gap is too big between the big and small. This thing about having a big day out against a big team is silly. There is no scope for development.

Give it a chance, it can be modified.

sponger (Wicklow) - Posts: 2705 - 20/10/2019 09:50:04    2244498

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Replying To arock:  "Well no matter what you or the few serial malcontents and knuckledraggers say the counties wanted it and voted for it time to move on."
That's untrue, and with respect, being a dub with everything at your disposal, you don't understand what weaker county players or fans feel or want. Not being smart, it's just a fact.

Longfordbaz (Longford) - Posts: 145 - 20/10/2019 10:19:45    2244500

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When i started this thread, i thought there was a small chance that common sense might prevail, so to see 75% of delegates vote for it, is mind boggling. One of the most insulting parts of yesterday was to hear the powers that be say that the competition was about helping weaker counties, when it is obviously the opposite. This is about removing the likes of Louth, Wicklow etc. from competing, so the GAA can have games involving the top sides and therefore generate more revenue. It was also hilarious hearing how this new competition will have a promotional campaign to ramp up interest. Does anyone think that an opening round match in Aughrim between Louth and Wicklow will attract anymore than 500 people. Also, no chance that any TV station or national media covers these games(apart from maybe the final or semi-final). This competition doesn't deal with the obvious problem of the provincial championship's. If the GAA were honest, they would admit that they want the top counties playing each other regularly and as for the rest, they couldn't care less.

PK57 (Louth) - Posts: 1565 - 20/10/2019 10:19:51    2244501

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Replying To lillyboy:  "Right or wrong it's in now so we need to make the best of it, makes div 2 and 3 very important next year too. I'd hope the ticket prices are such that people will attend. Everyone is still in the snr championship if good enough and this just might encourage more players to commit knowing they have a competition the can realistically hope to win."
If the league is played to a good schedule it can become an exciting competition and can give the players proper exciting games to play.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3214 - 20/10/2019 10:23:47    2244502

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Replying To sponger:  "I am sick of hoping Wicklow get a kind draw in the qualifiers every year. Not that we win anyway.

The gap is too big between the big and small. This thing about having a big day out against a big team is silly. There is no scope for development.

Give it a chance, it can be modified."
There's a good chance Wicklow are still going to be knocked out after 1 or 2 rounds of this.

It's going to be broadly similar teams in this a those that make up the qualifiers.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3214 - 20/10/2019 10:25:34    2244503

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Replying To sponger:  "I am sick of hoping Wicklow get a kind draw in the qualifiers every year. Not that we win anyway.

The gap is too big between the big and small. This thing about having a big day out against a big team is silly. There is no scope for development.

Give it a chance, it can be modified."
Without arrogance the reality is 8 teams who will potentially have to compete in Tier 2 next year voted against it. If the likes of Derry, Cork, Down, Kildare, Roscommon, Cavan, Armagh, Laois, end up in Div 3, don't get to a provinical final then don't expect any of those counties to keep their teams together to then travel the country to play a second tier competition.

I'd say they'll field some kind of team to fulfil the fixture but club championships, America and London will be the priority. If the likes of Wicklow want to play against counties "C" or "D" teams who turn up untrained and for a weekend away then fair play to them. The reality is the top brass won't care that players leave panels en masse after losing their provinicial game, they'll have their Tier 1 Championship set up which is the only priority.

The top brass talk about democracy which is very true. Players are amateur and they're allowed their own form of democracy and to make decisions which benefit them. In huge numbers they'll take the payday of America or London and the large majority of players from those counties that stay at home will spend the summer with their clubs. 16 teams was too many and you won't be able to motivate players or counties around 9th to 18th to compete or put the effort, finance and preparation into this farce.

sam1884 (UK) - Posts: 739 - 20/10/2019 10:54:40    2244509

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Replying To sam1884:  "Without arrogance the reality is 8 teams who will potentially have to compete in Tier 2 next year voted against it. If the likes of Derry, Cork, Down, Kildare, Roscommon, Cavan, Armagh, Laois, end up in Div 3, don't get to a provinical final then don't expect any of those counties to keep their teams together to then travel the country to play a second tier competition.

I'd say they'll field some kind of team to fulfil the fixture but club championships, America and London will be the priority. If the likes of Wicklow want to play against counties "C" or "D" teams who turn up untrained and for a weekend away then fair play to them. The reality is the top brass won't care that players leave panels en masse after losing their provinicial game, they'll have their Tier 1 Championship set up which is the only priority.

The top brass talk about democracy which is very true. Players are amateur and they're allowed their own form of democracy and to make decisions which benefit them. In huge numbers they'll take the payday of America or London and the large majority of players from those counties that stay at home will spend the summer with their clubs. 16 teams was too many and you won't be able to motivate players or counties around 9th to 18th to compete or put the effort, finance and preparation into this farce."
Hit the nail on the head there Sam. Ironically I think by playing in one competition, losing and then playing your b competition is also a draw back. Teams and management will gear towards their provincial competition, when that's over, they're gonzo....

Longfordbaz (Longford) - Posts: 145 - 20/10/2019 11:24:25    2244517

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Replying To PK57:  "When i started this thread, i thought there was a small chance that common sense might prevail, so to see 75% of delegates vote for it, is mind boggling. One of the most insulting parts of yesterday was to hear the powers that be say that the competition was about helping weaker counties, when it is obviously the opposite. This is about removing the likes of Louth, Wicklow etc. from competing, so the GAA can have games involving the top sides and therefore generate more revenue. It was also hilarious hearing how this new competition will have a promotional campaign to ramp up interest. Does anyone think that an opening round match in Aughrim between Louth and Wicklow will attract anymore than 500 people. Also, no chance that any TV station or national media covers these games(apart from maybe the final or semi-final). This competition doesn't deal with the obvious problem of the provincial championship's. If the GAA were honest, they would admit that they want the top counties playing each other regularly and as for the rest, they couldn't care less."
Agree with everything you say. Longford voted against it, and I think, not sure, but I think this was after consultation with players....nothing more than financial decision....for players and supporters of longford and louth, achievement doesn't have to be winning a Tommy Murphy cup, or b championship. A realistic goal and aim is a super 8 spot and players themselves want to play and test themselves against the best. . Theres lots of other way gaa could level the playing field, but that might affect the pockets and the HAVES.

Longfordbaz (Longford) - Posts: 145 - 20/10/2019 11:39:21    2244521

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What I find interesting is that all sensible commentary of this in the media has raised the points being made here.

It's been well analysed as a proposal and really the overwhelming prevailing thoughts on it were:

Why not wait until the fixtures review was complete. (Both players bodies were on the record as wanting to wait.

A well constructed second tier has merit but these proposals are obviously flawed.

The role of the Provincial championships as part of the All Ireland series has to be reviewed and is the major stumbling block to change.

Somehow though congress completely ignored all this sensible discussion. I just don't understand how this happens.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3214 - 20/10/2019 14:05:56    2244541

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