National Forum

Proposals For 2Nd Tier Championship Pathetic

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https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.rte.ie/amp/1054926/

So the GAA have announced plans of what the new 2 tier championship will look like and they may aswell not have bothered. It basically rehashes the Tommy Murphy cup, with the exception that 16 teams will be forced into a meaningless championship once they are beaten in their province(rather than just division 4 teams). The retention of the provincial system is bad enough but the idea that the only way of staying in the championship is to be in the provincial final is also ridiculous. Use Cork as an example, if they don't get out of division 3 next year, they will still only have to win one championship game in order to avoid being in the new championship, where as any weaker county in Leinster, would need to win 3 games in order to be at the same stage - and be lucky enough to be on the opposite side of the draw to Dublin. This also does not address the issue of one sided games as teams way out of their depth (like my own county) will he forced to still play the likes of Dublin.

PK57 (Louth) - Posts: 1565 - 14/06/2019 07:50:23    2194689

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Replying To PK57:  "https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.rte.ie/amp/1054926/

So the GAA have announced plans of what the new 2 tier championship will look like and they may aswell not have bothered. It basically rehashes the Tommy Murphy cup, with the exception that 16 teams will be forced into a meaningless championship once they are beaten in their province(rather than just division 4 teams). The retention of the provincial system is bad enough but the idea that the only way of staying in the championship is to be in the provincial final is also ridiculous. Use Cork as an example, if they don't get out of division 3 next year, they will still only have to win one championship game in order to avoid being in the new championship, where as any weaker county in Leinster, would need to win 3 games in order to be at the same stage - and be lucky enough to be on the opposite side of the draw to Dublin. This also does not address the issue of one sided games as teams way out of their depth (like my own county) will he forced to still play the likes of Dublin."
It's rubbish

Playing the Provincials at the start of the season could make sense.

Say Feb for All Ireland club

March April for Provincial championship with some club activity thrown in.

May to August for proper league based championships with club weekends scheduled.

Playoffs in September for all codes.

Say football 3 tiers

12, 10, 10

2 up 2 down between tiers.

Top 4 in division 1 to All Ireland semifinals.

Some sort of playoffs system in the lower divisions.

It's a slight tweak to the current league and played in the summer. The league is the competition the lesser teams care about now. Give them a proper season through that.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3214 - 14/06/2019 10:44:35    2194741

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Anybody could have gone through the forum here and picked up half a dozen or more decent and viable ideas. But they're going with the one idea we know does not work, Tommy Murphy 2.0.
Brilliant stuff, just kill the 2nd tier off before it even begins.
However, to give them some credit, at least they have recognised the problem with club fixtures and the overall calendar, which is a more pressing concern in my opinion.

extranjero (Wexford) - Posts: 374 - 14/06/2019 10:59:34    2194750

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Replying To Whammo86:  "It's rubbish

Playing the Provincials at the start of the season could make sense.

Say Feb for All Ireland club

March April for Provincial championship with some club activity thrown in.

May to August for proper league based championships with club weekends scheduled.

Playoffs in September for all codes.

Say football 3 tiers

12, 10, 10

2 up 2 down between tiers.

Top 4 in division 1 to All Ireland semifinals.

Some sort of playoffs system in the lower divisions.

It's a slight tweak to the current league and played in the summer. The league is the competition the lesser teams care about now. Give them a proper season through that."
I like some of your ideas here Whammo. How about this....

Senior Championship
10 Team League

Intermediate Championship
10 Team League

Junior Championship
12 Team League

(2 points for a win, 1 for a draw)

Top 3 in Senior into Sam Semi Finals,
4th plays 1st in Intermediate for last semi spot.
Bottom 2 in Senior relegated to Intermediate.

At Intermediate level,
1st promoted
2nd,3rd,4th + 1st in Junior level playoff for promotion to Senior.
Bottom 2 relegated to Junior.

At Junior Level,
1st promoted to Intermediate and into playoffs for Senior Level.
2nd,3rd,4th,5th playoff for promotion to Intermediate.

Provincial Championships
1st Weekend in May, Preliminary Round
1st Weekend in June, Quarter Finals
1st Weekend in July, Semi Finals
1st Weekend in August, Finals
All provincial Semi Final winners get 1 bonus point to league total,
Provincial Winners get 2 Bonus points.

Run the league from March till mid August, return All-ireland final to late September.


And most importantly, when intercounty teams are not in action on any given weekend, club championship games will be played, regardless of who the county plays next weekend.
Not releasing players to clubs or postponing club fixtures needlessly:
1st Time- loss of all home Intercounty fixtures for 1 year.
2nd Time- banned from the next years intercounty championship and relegation to Junior level.

How about that?

extranjero (Wexford) - Posts: 374 - 14/06/2019 11:10:19    2194760

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Lads, John Horan has said "Let's strike while the iron is hot" and get this 2nd tier proposal through.

I take that to mean -

People are calling for a 2nd tier now, so let's not wait 2 or 3 years because they might not want it then.

So it was always going to be a half-hearted, rushed idea that could be forced through congress on the back of the cries of those trying to sell newspapers.

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 4316 - 14/06/2019 11:20:47    2194766

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What the GAA are doing is called slow boiling, the government use this tactic all the time when trying to introduce a new tax , they never go in gung-ho and charge you a big amount as we'd all be up in arms but they start off with a small change and then increase little by little so you don't realize your getting burnt.

This is only the start, in about 2 years they'll change it again and eventually the provisional systems will be gone, but like I say if they went straight in to get rid of the broken provincial systems straight away they'd be voted down at special congress.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 12197 - 14/06/2019 11:21:55    2194768

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Its clueless and disrespectful towards teams and players.

An organisation bound by politics

Ban (Westmeath) - Posts: 1098 - 14/06/2019 11:22:55    2194770

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I think the more simple the structure the better. It's a Championship after all.
I would love to see this structure but know it will never happen.

Get rid of Super 8. Adds nothing and draws out the season too much.
Get rid of back door. Back to straight knockout AI Championship.

Losers of early rounds right up to and including Provincial finals go into 2nd tier Championship.
Run it off however the hell they want as long as every county is guaranteed at least 3 championship games a season.

Hardtimes (Cavan) - Posts: 1056 - 14/06/2019 11:30:29    2194772

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I think the main problem with all of the ideas Headquarters appears to be considering is they are thinking about the short-term. They (and a good percentage of fans) are constantly on about improving the match-ups so we have more even and better games in the following year but only for a small percentage of the games.

Talk to any county footballer outside of the handful that can realistically win Sam - they will say they want more Championship level intensity games to help them improve. At the moment a so-called weaker county will likely get one Provincial Championship game and one qualifier and be out of the Championship in early June with no more inter-county games until February (7 months). Counties are not going to improve with 2 games per year and then a long layoff nor are they going to improve in the first 2 or 3 years of a new format even if it is the best format ever thought of.

So we need to look to the long term - 5 years plus - to bring a more level playing field. Firstly the Provincial Championships must be taken out of the All-Ireland series - they were great in their day but have outlived their usefulness and are now a hinderance.

For me the best route is 8 groups of 4 with a Division One, Two, Three and Four County in each group. The Div 4 team will play all their games at home, Div 3 team play Div 1 & Div 2 teams at home and Div 2 team play Div 1 team at home.
Top 2 go into last 16. Bottom 2 drop into Tier 2 Cup. Every county is guaranteed at least 4 Championship games and every county will have at least one group game they have a chance to win. I'm sure you'll see the standard rising across the country. It also makes the League position much more important.

opa01 (Cavan) - Posts: 484 - 14/06/2019 11:30:57    2194773

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Oh no, this proposal doesn't seem to have been thought through properly and will end up failing before it starts. As some other posters have said, there have been many great ideas put forward on a second tier championship and they end up proposing a Tommy Murphy cup again. Whatever they come up with, it needs the full backing of all counties. i just hope the GAA don't plough on with something that hasn't got support.

I think there is definitely need for some kind of second tier championship. Teams need to be able to complete for a trophy at their own level, like club football. However it needs to be carefully thought out, have the full backing of the GAA community and make sure it is marketed properly. The games should be televised, make RTE and SKy Sports show a second tier game if they want to show a game in the 1st tier.

Green_Gold (Donegal) - Posts: 1734 - 14/06/2019 11:33:45    2194776

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Complete rubbish from the Gaa but exactly as expected. I feel sorry for some people (not the likes of Brolly) who have endoresed a 2nd tier football championship for years because I have little doubt their intentions were good.

But here's the reality, the Gaa DO NOT, CAN NOT, WILL NOT and WILL NEVER treat any 2nd tier football championship seriously, this is one of the main reasons why I have always been against the idea.

Look at All-Ireland B football championship (if you've ever even heard of it) or the Tommy Murphy cup. Both failed because they weren't treated seriously and the new competition 'Tommy Murphy cup the sequel' will fail aswell.

I'd say look at the lower hurling tiers at present as an example aswell but that's impossible because they're never on tv.

Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8620 - 14/06/2019 12:35:04    2194808

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I hope they don't name the tournament after a player, by all means name the trophy but not the tournament, anyway we all know the second tier will likely fail as always, counties won't care about it, there needs to be good coverage on T.V otherwise people wouldn't care about
it since it's not shown

PyatPree (Cork) - Posts: 376 - 14/06/2019 13:41:52    2194831

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Jaysus, this actually creates more questions than answers.

AC (None) - Posts: 316 - 14/06/2019 14:27:38    2194861

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If this exact format was introduced, it would be interesting to see how long the GAA persisted with it despite the many problems with it. Maybe, it can be a positive if it comes in for year, nobody gets interested in it, and the GAA go back to the drawing board.

eoghan6688 (Galway) - Posts: 137 - 14/06/2019 15:23:34    2194893

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It's funny how they want to keep the super 8s for the elite counties and at the same time propose that the 2nd tier counties play a quick do or die knockout to finish up on the same day as a standard super 8 fixture played in a half empty croker. That just goes to show exactly what they think of smaller counties right there. How are the counties that will be expected to take this seriously actually do that if the association are treating it like the biggest game in that competition will play 2nd fiddle to a game that means 2 points in a round robin. I can see the county players booking their holidays for early July if this gets the go ahead!

SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2067 - 14/06/2019 15:39:09    2194898

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This is the best I've seen link

icehonesty (Wexford) - Posts: 2481 - 14/06/2019 15:52:08    2194904

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Replying To icehonesty:  "This is the best I've seen link"
Fail = only 1 guaranteed game in the premier competition.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 6261 - 14/06/2019 16:34:22    2194920

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It seems they want to retain provinces feeding into the All-Ireland series.

I would classify Munster and Connaught as single branch championships - they contain less than 4 quarter-finals.

I would classify Ulster and Leinster as double branch championships - they contain 4 quarter-finals i.e. at least 4 teams either side of the draw.

Munster finalists, Connaught finalists, Ulster semi-finalists and Leinster semi-finalists should all qualify for the All-Ireland series.

How many more teams is included with these 12 is up for discussion.

Any second championship should see the winner guaranteed an All-Ireland series spot in the following year. Like the Europa League, guaranteeing a premier competition spot in the following year is the only real reward to offer.

Is mise le meas,

The Legend.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 6261 - 14/06/2019 16:47:13    2194925

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If this is introduced, it will only serve to finish off the weaker counties altogether but we shouldn't be surprised as this is what has happened in the hurling championship; an elite group of teams at the top who can't be relegated and a group of minnows who are forgotten about with no coverage playing away in the background. They are now about to do much the same in the football. It is hard enough to get players in weaker counties to commit as is, I can only see this continuing to decline.

wicklowsupport (Wicklow) - Posts: 1198 - 14/06/2019 17:04:53    2194932

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Replying To SaffronDon:  "It's funny how they want to keep the super 8s for the elite counties and at the same time propose that the 2nd tier counties play a quick do or die knockout to finish up on the same day as a standard super 8 fixture played in a half empty croker. That just goes to show exactly what they think of smaller counties right there. How are the counties that will be expected to take this seriously actually do that if the association are treating it like the biggest game in that competition will play 2nd fiddle to a game that means 2 points in a round robin. I can see the county players booking their holidays for early July if this gets the go ahead!"
Agree with everything you say here.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3214 - 14/06/2019 17:09:39    2194935

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