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Proposals For 2Nd Tier Championship Pathetic

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Equally pathetic is the GPA response today, the day of the vote when the headline will surely overshadowed by the All Ireland. What a sad, pathetic organisation the GPA really are.

icehonesty (Wexford) - Posts: 2481 - 14/09/2019 19:00:50    2235249

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The real death of football is one step closer.

icehonesty (Wexford) - Posts: 2481 - 17/09/2019 07:55:23    2236462

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John Horan opening the centre of excellence in Leitrim said that the 2nd tier would benefit Leitrim but in a few sentences after said Mayo and Tyrone had too many qualifiers games this year. There's your real reason for this codology. It will fail again because nobody will have any interest in it.
The real pressing issues Horan should be looking at is rule changes to make the game more attacking, and the funding disparity.

Halfdinnerandraspberrycheesecake (Leitrim) - Posts: 48 - 17/09/2019 08:43:49    2236475

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I'd love to know what people actually want? Very fast to shut down anything put forward yet no one will put forward anything else. Other than the useal ''Its wont get any coverage'' or ''We dont train all year to play in a B championship''.

The ''It wont get coverage'' one really annoys me. Is there wall to wall coverage of the Waterford footballers as it is?

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 420 - 17/09/2019 08:58:15    2236481

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There are a lot of problems currently but the proposed secondary competition will not solve any of them.
I can see a lot of lads not bothering to play in a secondary competition with it which will increase the gap between top and bottom.
However, it will give the GAA what they really want. More games between the 'top' teams more often.
All the teams outside the top 8 are an inconvenience to the GAA.

AC (None) - Posts: 316 - 17/09/2019 09:32:41    2236498

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I don't see any problem with finance and the current Dublin team. Where there is going to a problem is when Dublin GAA really reach their marketing potential and the brand becomes bigger than the GAA itself.

The only way to counteract this is having a "super" competition involving the top 6 to 8 counties throughout the summer months. The media interest would allow other top counties to maximise their marketing potential and all the top sponsorship deals will be concentrated on these counties/business's.

That is the real reason for this competition and it doesn't surprise me a Dublin GAA man is pushing it as President. Dublin know if their success continues rightly or wrongly there'll be calls for a split. The solution is to try and keep the top counties on side by opening up huge revenue streams. Weaker counties need to be careful!

sam1884 (UK) - Posts: 739 - 17/09/2019 13:07:11    2236586

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Replying To sam1884:  "I don't see any problem with finance and the current Dublin team. Where there is going to a problem is when Dublin GAA really reach their marketing potential and the brand becomes bigger than the GAA itself.

The only way to counteract this is having a "super" competition involving the top 6 to 8 counties throughout the summer months. The media interest would allow other top counties to maximise their marketing potential and all the top sponsorship deals will be concentrated on these counties/business's.

That is the real reason for this competition and it doesn't surprise me a Dublin GAA man is pushing it as President. Dublin know if their success continues rightly or wrongly there'll be calls for a split. The solution is to try and keep the top counties on side by opening up huge revenue streams. Weaker counties need to be careful!"
6-8 counties in a super competition? That's currently working very well alright

Halfdinnerandraspberrycheesecake (Leitrim) - Posts: 48 - 17/09/2019 15:02:06    2236646

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there needs to be a 2nd tiered championship . division 3 and 4 teams need to get behind it if it is promoted properly .

lor12 (Wicklow) - Posts: 169 - 17/09/2019 16:24:16    2236693

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Replying To Halfdinnerandraspberrycheesecake:  "6-8 counties in a super competition? That's currently working very well alright"
The current format doesn't work granted but the kind of competition I'm talking about is very different. It would be played right throughout the summer with regular live games, big crowds, media interest. Over a couple of years most of these counties would be operating pretty much to professional standards with the sponsorship deals in place to allow it. First job is to try and seperate them from the weaker counties/pitfalls to ensure the top counties are guaranteed to make it to the super competition - this would help with negotiating sponsorship deals.

sam1884 (UK) - Posts: 739 - 17/09/2019 16:29:41    2236697

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It's time the smaller counties started taking a more hands on approach to their own status. This horrendous 2nd tier proposal needs to be binned before it even starts and counties need to withdraw from it so that the association can go back to square one and come up with a 2nd tier championship that actually appeals to those who have to play in it.

The 'grand finale' of this new proposal is supposed to be held at the same venue as a bog standard super 8's game. That's the PR that's going into this competition and we thought the Tommy Murphy was bad!

SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2067 - 17/09/2019 16:52:21    2236704

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we need another championship get behind it

lor12 (Wicklow) - Posts: 169 - 17/09/2019 19:21:21    2236779

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Replying To sam1884:  "The current format doesn't work granted but the kind of competition I'm talking about is very different. It would be played right throughout the summer with regular live games, big crowds, media interest. Over a couple of years most of these counties would be operating pretty much to professional standards with the sponsorship deals in place to allow it. First job is to try and seperate them from the weaker counties/pitfalls to ensure the top counties are guaranteed to make it to the super competition - this would help with negotiating sponsorship deals."
Well I'm glad you're not in the mix to be the next GAA president.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3214 - 17/09/2019 21:36:35    2236861

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If I were on the county board of a weak county, I wouldn't support this proposal as it will do nothing to help teams in Division 3 and 4. The GAA is going down the same road as the hurling championship which is effectively a competition between 8 counties for the All Ireland (not sure why it is called an all ireland when most of the country aren't in the competition); the football championship will resemble the current hurling championship in five years time if this gets through. The lower hurling competitions get no coverage and are played effectively behind closed doors. Until the GAA come up with a proper recommendation on how they can help more counties to become competitive then people should get use to seeing a lot more of dublin v kerry and a lot less of their own county. People are switching off the GAA, attendances at club matches is down, attendances at intercounty level is down. Even the supporters of teams like Dublin and Kerry, only turn up for the All Ireland semi final/final. Players are choosing to go to the US to play in the summer as oppose to playing the championship; this proposal will increase the numbers going. The teams in Division 3 and 4 should get together and put forward their own proposals and force the GAA to enter discussions on what can improve the championship for them and not just the top 2-3 teams.

wicklowsupport (Wicklow) - Posts: 1198 - 18/09/2019 08:03:43    2236952

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Replying To Whammo86:  "Well I'm glad you're not in the mix to be the next GAA president."
Don't get me wrong I disagree with what I believe the GAA's medium term aims are. All the noises is about keeping Dublin's finance at the current level but bringing it's main competitors upto a increasingly comfortable standard. Listen to the President's comments in Leitrim when mentioning Mayo and Tyrone and them having to play a lot of qualifers.

Weaker counties need to see what's ahead of them; this proposal is not to suit them - it's about removing the weaker counties and reducing the pitfalls for the larger counties. I'm convinced the ultimate aim is to have a super competition involving heavily sponspored counties battling in big games during the summer in a significant extenstion to the super 8's.

Yes there may be a pathway for counties to compete but 6 or 7 counties will be guaranteed to compete yearly and will ultimately pull so far away they're almost in a different sport. Never again will we see a county like Tyrone or Mayo having to play early qualifers away to Div 3 teams.

A secondary competition would have to compete for exposure with a super football competition and the latter stages of the hurling Championship. Does anybody believe the GAA will market these secondary competitions or would the media be interested when huge senior games are happening? Secondary football competitions will be no different to the Christy Ring cups etc.

The GAA is a business and to be me this is their reaction to the potential Dublin problem down the line so want to open up revenue opportunities for the other bigger counties - this would also counteract this argument about splitting Dublin by keeping all the big hitters on side.

sam1884 (UK) - Posts: 739 - 18/09/2019 11:11:11    2237005

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I think it's quite clear that it made 0 sense to shoehorn in a secondary competition to a special congress before the fixtures review committee had finished their work.

Really Horan is looking to create a legacy and I think it's absolutely an arse about face way of doing things.

There needs to be a better All Ireland championship competition.

It needs to be reorganized in a coordinated manner so as to consider its impact on other units of the association, namely the club game.

If I were in a position of authority in the association I'd have the Provincial championships opening the intercounty season in April and May.

I'd have the main championship a separate competition based in a similar format to the old leagues.

Football 2 divisions with 2 groups of 8 each
Hurling 3 divisions with 2 groups of 6 (1 or 2 groups of 5 in division 3 depending on numbers)

Teams get a proper program of games in June and July.

Championship finished by August.

Club championship starts in September in both codes in All Counties.

November to January free

February and March for Provincial and All Ireland club.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3214 - 18/09/2019 15:19:58    2237175

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my proposal give the winner of the 2nd tiered championship a super 8 spot that would make it very interested this should be put forward by the gpa body

lor12 (Wicklow) - Posts: 169 - 18/09/2019 16:11:06    2237203

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Horan has killed off any legitimate discussion of a tiered championship by pushing his awful proposal through. Now we're back to single tier championship reforms.

The provincials need to be separated from the All-Ireland series. I'm leaning towards the format used by Kildare.

32 teams play in the first round after which all 32 teams will go into four groups of four with two winners and two losers from the opening round in each of those groups.

Round 1

Galway v Meath
Tyrone v Louth
Antrim v London
Wicklow v Dublin
Limerick v Tipperary
Clare v Westmeath
Cavan v Armagh
Mayo v Cork
Sligo v Carlow
Laois v Derry
Offaly v Kerry
Longford v Down
Leitrim v Donegal
Wexford v Roscommon
Waterford v Fermanagh
Kildare v Monaghan

Group Stage

Single or double round-robin.

1st and 2nd - Round of 16
3rd and 4th - Eliminated

Group A

Roscommon
Laois
Westmeath
Wexford

Group B

Dublin
Cavan
Waterford
Wicklow

Group C

Leitrim
Carlow
Limerick
London

Group D

Kerry
Galway
Cork
Sligo

Group E

Tyrone
Longford
Offaly
Antrim

Group F

Kildare
Clare
Down
Tipperary

Group G

Mayo
Monaghan
Meath
Armagh

Group H

Donegal
Fermanagh
Louth
Derry

Round of 16

The first-placed teams in each group get home advantage for this round.

Roscommon v Fermanagh
Donegal v Laois
Kerry v Longford
Tyrone v Galway
Dublin v Monaghan
Mayo v Cavan
Leitrim v Clare
Kildare v Carlow

Quarter-Finals

Neutral venues are used for this round.

Roscommon v Donegal (Croke Park or St Tiernach's Park, Clones)
Kerry v Tyrone (Croke Park)
Dublin v Mayo (Semple Stadium)
Clare v Kildare (Semple Stadium)

Semi-Finals

Donegal v Kerry
Dublin v Kildare

Final

Kerry v Dublin

Hawkeye9212 (Donegal) - Posts: 266 - 18/09/2019 17:41:41    2237257

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Replying To Hawkeye9212:  "Horan has killed off any legitimate discussion of a tiered championship by pushing his awful proposal through. Now we're back to single tier championship reforms.

The provincials need to be separated from the All-Ireland series. I'm leaning towards the format used by Kildare.

32 teams play in the first round after which all 32 teams will go into four groups of four with two winners and two losers from the opening round in each of those groups.

Round 1

Galway v Meath
Tyrone v Louth
Antrim v London
Wicklow v Dublin
Limerick v Tipperary
Clare v Westmeath
Cavan v Armagh
Mayo v Cork
Sligo v Carlow
Laois v Derry
Offaly v Kerry
Longford v Down
Leitrim v Donegal
Wexford v Roscommon
Waterford v Fermanagh
Kildare v Monaghan

Group Stage

Single or double round-robin.

1st and 2nd - Round of 16
3rd and 4th - Eliminated

Group A

Roscommon
Laois
Westmeath
Wexford

Group B

Dublin
Cavan
Waterford
Wicklow

Group C

Leitrim
Carlow
Limerick
London

Group D

Kerry
Galway
Cork
Sligo

Group E

Tyrone
Longford
Offaly
Antrim

Group F

Kildare
Clare
Down
Tipperary

Group G

Mayo
Monaghan
Meath
Armagh

Group H

Donegal
Fermanagh
Louth
Derry

Round of 16

The first-placed teams in each group get home advantage for this round.

Roscommon v Fermanagh
Donegal v Laois
Kerry v Longford
Tyrone v Galway
Dublin v Monaghan
Mayo v Cavan
Leitrim v Clare
Kildare v Carlow

Quarter-Finals

Neutral venues are used for this round.

Roscommon v Donegal (Croke Park or St Tiernach's Park, Clones)
Kerry v Tyrone (Croke Park)
Dublin v Mayo (Semple Stadium)
Clare v Kildare (Semple Stadium)

Semi-Finals

Donegal v Kerry
Dublin v Kildare

Final

Kerry v Dublin"
Nah I'm pretty sure the CPA want to introduce a tiered championship. It's just going to be much better thought out than Horan's.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3214 - 18/09/2019 19:30:34    2237295

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Replying To Hawkeye9212:  "Horan has killed off any legitimate discussion of a tiered championship by pushing his awful proposal through. Now we're back to single tier championship reforms.

The provincials need to be separated from the All-Ireland series. I'm leaning towards the format used by Kildare.

32 teams play in the first round after which all 32 teams will go into four groups of four with two winners and two losers from the opening round in each of those groups.

Round 1

Galway v Meath
Tyrone v Louth
Antrim v London
Wicklow v Dublin
Limerick v Tipperary
Clare v Westmeath
Cavan v Armagh
Mayo v Cork
Sligo v Carlow
Laois v Derry
Offaly v Kerry
Longford v Down
Leitrim v Donegal
Wexford v Roscommon
Waterford v Fermanagh
Kildare v Monaghan

Group Stage

Single or double round-robin.

1st and 2nd - Round of 16
3rd and 4th - Eliminated

Group A

Roscommon
Laois
Westmeath
Wexford

Group B

Dublin
Cavan
Waterford
Wicklow

Group C

Leitrim
Carlow
Limerick
London

Group D

Kerry
Galway
Cork
Sligo

Group E

Tyrone
Longford
Offaly
Antrim

Group F

Kildare
Clare
Down
Tipperary

Group G

Mayo
Monaghan
Meath
Armagh

Group H

Donegal
Fermanagh
Louth
Derry

Round of 16

The first-placed teams in each group get home advantage for this round.

Roscommon v Fermanagh
Donegal v Laois
Kerry v Longford
Tyrone v Galway
Dublin v Monaghan
Mayo v Cavan
Leitrim v Clare
Kildare v Carlow

Quarter-Finals

Neutral venues are used for this round.

Roscommon v Donegal (Croke Park or St Tiernach's Park, Clones)
Kerry v Tyrone (Croke Park)
Dublin v Mayo (Semple Stadium)
Clare v Kildare (Semple Stadium)

Semi-Finals

Donegal v Kerry
Dublin v Kildare

Final

Kerry v Dublin"
Something like this is fine though, except the first round is a bit superfluous.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3214 - 18/09/2019 19:34:57    2237296

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Replying To Whammo86:  "
Replying To Hawkeye9212:  "Horan has killed off any legitimate discussion of a tiered championship by pushing his awful proposal through. Now we're back to single tier championship reforms.

The provincials need to be separated from the All-Ireland series. I'm leaning towards the format used by Kildare.

32 teams play in the first round after which all 32 teams will go into four groups of four with two winners and two losers from the opening round in each of those groups.

Round 1

Galway v Meath
Tyrone v Louth
Antrim v London
Wicklow v Dublin
Limerick v Tipperary
Clare v Westmeath
Cavan v Armagh
Mayo v Cork
Sligo v Carlow
Laois v Derry
Offaly v Kerry
Longford v Down
Leitrim v Donegal
Wexford v Roscommon
Waterford v Fermanagh
Kildare v Monaghan

Group Stage

Single or double round-robin.

1st and 2nd - Round of 16
3rd and 4th - Eliminated

Group A

Roscommon
Laois
Westmeath
Wexford

Group B

Dublin
Cavan
Waterford
Wicklow

Group C

Leitrim
Carlow
Limerick
London

Group D

Kerry
Galway
Cork
Sligo

Group E

Tyrone
Longford
Offaly
Antrim

Group F

Kildare
Clare
Down
Tipperary

Group G

Mayo
Monaghan
Meath
Armagh

Group H

Donegal
Fermanagh
Louth
Derry

Round of 16

The first-placed teams in each group get home advantage for this round.

Roscommon v Fermanagh
Donegal v Laois
Kerry v Longford
Tyrone v Galway
Dublin v Monaghan
Mayo v Cavan
Leitrim v Clare
Kildare v Carlow

Quarter-Finals

Neutral venues are used for this round.

Roscommon v Donegal (Croke Park or St Tiernach's Park, Clones)
Kerry v Tyrone (Croke Park)
Dublin v Mayo (Semple Stadium)
Clare v Kildare (Semple Stadium)

Semi-Finals

Donegal v Kerry
Dublin v Kildare

Final

Kerry v Dublin"
Something like this is fine though, except the first round is a bit superfluous."
I think it creates better seeding for the groups but an open draw works as well. The CPA may want a tiered championship but they can thank Horan when he kills the debate for another decade by pushing through his proposal.

Hawkeye9212 (Donegal) - Posts: 266 - 18/09/2019 19:50:18    2237305

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