Cavan Forum

National League

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Awwnow, are you going to clarify this "100 players" stuff you're coming out. The late great deanmartin used to get an idea in his head and flog it to death, and you seem to be the same.

So for comic effect, if nothing else, would you tell us how Terry Hyland had more players to pick from than any other Cavan manager?

Skelling (USA) - Posts: 289 - 12/03/2017 19:45:06    1966485

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Replying To Skelling:  "Awwnow, are you going to clarify this "100 players" stuff you're coming out. The late great deanmartin used to get an idea in his head and flog it to death, and you seem to be the same.

So for comic effect, if nothing else, would you tell us how Terry Hyland had more players to pick from than any other Cavan manager?"
Does every manager not have the same amount of footballers to pick from? Every club in Cavan multiply by 15. Although when we had Nesty that was the usual amount plus one. Same logic applies to Gallagher and sure Cunningham.

doratheexplorer (Cavan) - Posts: 1467 - 12/03/2017 19:49:37    1966488

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Throw it open here... Like all Cavan Teams... We appear for a couple years and then disappear into the mist.. What has the conveyor belt throwing out at underage level in the last 2 years? What was the structures that was put in place for the previous success at U21 level? One man that we had at that time was in the opposition team management today . !! Peter Donnelly !!!

A lot of work has to be done within the county!!!

upandcomingblue (Cavan) - Posts: 37 - 12/03/2017 19:49:45    1966489

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Replying To upandcomingblue:  "Throw it open here... Like all Cavan Teams... We appear for a couple years and then disappear into the mist.. What has the conveyor belt throwing out at underage level in the last 2 years? What was the structures that was put in place for the previous success at U21 level? One man that we had at that time was in the opposition team management today . !! Peter Donnelly !!!

A lot of work has to be done within the county!!!"
Good call. Peter Donnelly was a huge loss to Cavan football.

doratheexplorer (Cavan) - Posts: 1467 - 12/03/2017 19:58:59    1966493

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Replying To doratheexplorer:  "Does every manager not have the same amount of footballers to pick from? Every club in Cavan multiply by 15. Although when we had Nesty that was the usual amount plus one. Same logic applies to Gallagher and sure Cunningham."
There's that logic again.

Skelling (USA) - Posts: 289 - 12/03/2017 20:02:25    1966495

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Replying To doratheexplorer:  "Does every manager not have the same amount of footballers to pick from? Every club in Cavan multiply by 15. Although when we had Nesty that was the usual amount plus one. Same logic applies to Gallagher and sure Cunningham."
When Terry took over the Senior team in 2012 he had the 2011 and 2012 winning U21s to choose from plus the losing U21s team of 2010 ..
while he was senior manager he also had the pick of the 2013 and 2014 winning U21s plus the winning minor team..
Now most of those 5 U21 teams players were tried at Senior level during Terry's 4 and a half years.
That's more successful U21s that were tried over a 4 year period than was previously tried by any Senior manager.
Of those 5 U21 teams what forwards are involved on a regular basis?
Who is responsible for their development when they leave the U21 set up to be part of the Senior set up?
Any body care to answer that simple one question??

Awwwwnow (Cavan) - Posts: 1050 - 12/03/2017 20:04:51    1966498

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Replying To Awwwwnow:  "When Terry took over the Senior team in 2012 he had the 2011 and 2012 winning U21s to choose from plus the losing U21s team of 2010 ..
while he was senior manager he also had the pick of the 2013 and 2014 winning U21s plus the winning minor team..
Now most of those 5 U21 teams players were tried at Senior level during Terry's 4 and a half years.
That's more successful U21s that were tried over a 4 year period than was previously tried by any Senior manager.
Of those 5 U21 teams what forwards are involved on a regular basis?
Who is responsible for their development when they leave the U21 set up to be part of the Senior set up?
Any body care to answer that simple one question??"
Oh right, he had more successful U-21s to pick from rather than players. Thanks for clearing that up.
We'll be hearing this for the next few years. McGleenon will get a free run because he didn't have the successful U-21s to pick from.
Got it.

Skelling (USA) - Posts: 289 - 12/03/2017 20:13:18    1966501

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We need to look at that time when Nicholas Walsh was involved at under age. Youth Development Officer!! Peter Donnelly - Tyrone,.. Do we have to invest in good coaches to get us back up and going again? Do we invest in some of our own ex county players to get the best of coaching on a full time basis? I am aware that there is a fair cost involved here!!

I read on here that even before our U21''s start the Ulster Championship. Not much silverware!!! Is it all doom and gloom?

Where are we all going forward for the love of Cavan GAA ?

upandcomingblue (Cavan) - Posts: 37 - 12/03/2017 20:23:00    1966505

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Awwwwwwow can you please start a Terry Hyland thread and take all this rubbish there and leave the rest of us to talk about The National League which is what this thread is called.

I came home from Omagh on bad form today. Maybe I got a bit too excited with our efforts in the first half. There was a decent breeze in out backs in the first half and it helped but I thought that our general play was excellent and we moved the ball from back to front fast which caused them problems. I thought our back line were in control but the amount of fouling was worrying and kept them in touch.

The second half was abysmal. We got absolutely cleaned out in midfield and this gave the the platform to cut through our defence and we got stretched. I was really hoping for more of the same. I found it strange that we made 2 changes albeit Gunner was on a yellow and charging into them still. The second half performance was very very disappointing. Losing the second half by 11 points tells its own story. It is not a time to panic and question the manager but we need to learn from this like he keeps saying. He deserves time to make his mark. We are not good enough for division 1 football im afraid but we need to use the rest of these games to get some consistency and get ready for the Ulster Championship. Division 2 beckons.

Reformation (Cavan) - Posts: 356 - 12/03/2017 20:27:17    1966509

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Dissapointing Result today even if our hopes were up at half time listening on the radio. How did Martin reilly suddenly start kicking points from play , the last time that happened was against Derry in 2013 i think.In many respects nothing unexpected happening so far in the league based on previous performances , when we play better opposition we often got blown away when the pressure was on.This is the challenge that Mattie has , did anyone expected him to solve it between November and March in Year 1 with a baptism of fire playing at a level we have'nt for years ?. If we got that first half against Donegal we might have been in the mix for points. The test ultimately is the championship in 2017 and 2018. I believe the players give it 110%. Peter Donnelly was a big loss for us , did our u21 do anything since he left ? Do people want us to sack Mattie or appoint some of the contributors here as his consultant.

eamonnmac (Cavan) - Posts: 59 - 12/03/2017 20:39:56    1966515

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That second half reminded me of the older days i taught we had moved away from,, the fitness level of the players is terrible, are they under trained or over trained, they were burned out come the second half. This thing of letting the other team have the ball from there own kick outs has to stop , is he trying to copy the Donegal style , if he is he must realise we haven't got the Mc hughs to counter attack at pace. The first half we did push up on Tyrone kick outs and it worked in the second half at one stage there was 5 Tyrone players waiting for the ball to be kicked to them, Cavan can't afford to let teams walk the ball up to there 45 or we will be punished over and over.the second half was just embarrassing bad passing , lads looking at each other to see who would kick a 13 yard free which was missed in the end. They played into Tyrone hands by bad tackling and Tyrone just converted easy frees. I think Mattie has to start from scratch, look at the players he has on the field, look at his game plan and use the last few games in the league to try and prepare for the championship

goonie (Cavan) - Posts: 308 - 12/03/2017 21:03:37    1966528

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Replying To Skelling:  "Oh right, he had more successful U-21s to pick from rather than players. Thanks for clearing that up.
We'll be hearing this for the next few years. McGleenon will get a free run because he didn't have the successful U-21s to pick from.
Got it."
I think the last 4 and a half years was the free run.. then the halo slipped off

Awwwwnow (Cavan) - Posts: 1050 - 12/03/2017 21:13:22    1966532

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Replying To cavanman47:  "You're right.

Terry deserves great credit for managing to win so much at under 21 without a top class forward.

Nice of you to finally give the man his dues!"
I have to agree with Awwnow and Cavanman47 here. Terry did brilliantly well to get a breakthrough win without a top class forward. Also brought the Seniors to Division 1 with the same problem.

Well said lads.

JonSmith (Cavan) - Posts: 1451 - 12/03/2017 22:21:42    1966563

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At the start of Hyland's reign as Cavan manager they were considered a good attacking team that were a bit naïve defensively. The 2013 Ulster semi-final was there for them had it not been for some poor defending at the end of the game. However during his term as manager he had a spread of good forwards, M Dunne , N McDermott, D Givney, E Keating, C Mackey and indeed Jonstone. He then over compensated with a defensive game plan at the expense of attack for a year or two. He then got a mix together good enough to get them to Division 1 and everyone thought that with the defensive game plan together with the forward power mentioned above they would hold their own in that division, then low and behold not just the manager but most of the forward line went too.
To expect the new manager and the new forwards to operate at the highest level is a big ask. It's quite a jump from club management to Div 1 of the league. Had the squad and management that took them up from Div 3 remained in tact they would have been better placed to compete IMO.
I asked the question on the main "National league 2" forum regarding teams coming up and the jump in class and I was eaten out of it, but the fact is that if a team that comes up are not ready they realistically have to beat Monaghan, Donegal and whoever comes up with them to stay in the Division. Some say that only the championship matters, but, you are not playing the top 5 or 6 teams in the country on consecutive weeks in the championship and if you are not ready to compete with them in the league, what hope you have when they are fully wound up in August, not to mention getting the confidence knocked out of you all spring.
If Cavan had stuck together they would been very competitive in Division 1 , I have not doubt about that. The fact is that they didn't and supporters should take that on board, You are not comparing like with like. Either get those forwards back on board or give the manager time to re-build

mhunicean_abu (Monaghan) - Posts: 969 - 12/03/2017 22:25:47    1966566

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What is really annoying is his interviews after the game. Keeps referring to cavan as 3rd person. "Cavan need to learn" . He has said this numerous times. Why cant he say we? He has to learn more than anyone by the looks of it. Poor sideline decisions is also costing us

.tribute (Cavan) - Posts: 360 - 13/03/2017 06:42:15    1966591

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Replying To mhunicean_abu:  "At the start of Hyland's reign as Cavan manager they were considered a good attacking team that were a bit naïve defensively. The 2013 Ulster semi-final was there for them had it not been for some poor defending at the end of the game. However during his term as manager he had a spread of good forwards, M Dunne , N McDermott, D Givney, E Keating, C Mackey and indeed Jonstone. He then over compensated with a defensive game plan at the expense of attack for a year or two. He then got a mix together good enough to get them to Division 1 and everyone thought that with the defensive game plan together with the forward power mentioned above they would hold their own in that division, then low and behold not just the manager but most of the forward line went too.
To expect the new manager and the new forwards to operate at the highest level is a big ask. It's quite a jump from club management to Div 1 of the league. Had the squad and management that took them up from Div 3 remained in tact they would have been better placed to compete IMO.
I asked the question on the main "National league 2" forum regarding teams coming up and the jump in class and I was eaten out of it, but the fact is that if a team that comes up are not ready they realistically have to beat Monaghan, Donegal and whoever comes up with them to stay in the Division. Some say that only the championship matters, but, you are not playing the top 5 or 6 teams in the country on consecutive weeks in the championship and if you are not ready to compete with them in the league, what hope you have when they are fully wound up in August, not to mention getting the confidence knocked out of you all spring.
If Cavan had stuck together they would been very competitive in Division 1 , I have not doubt about that. The fact is that they didn't and supporters should take that on board, You are not comparing like with like. Either get those forwards back on board or give the manager time to re-build"
Good post Mhuinicean_abu - i think you're right about our plight and we need to give the new man time. Emotions will run high on here as when people travel and see a capitulation like yesterday then they will come out looking for heads. Anyway, we will need to prepare for second tier football next year but that is not the end of the world. I think we can place well there and try to rebuild another surge to division 1.

Reformation (Cavan) - Posts: 356 - 13/03/2017 07:35:41    1966595

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Gutted after yesterdays collapse, people were really believing that things had come together at last. Northern Sound had us winning Ulster at half time by all accounts!
Tyrones ability to change up during the game was impressive. It was a harsh lesson that you need more than one gameplan at this level.
We need to keep positive though, there is a place in Div1 still to be fought for.

Looking ahead Mayo are the team for us to be catching. A win next weekend leaves us a point behind them. I can't see them getting anything in Omagh or us against Kerry the following round, so that would leave us playing Roscommon for 2 points and Mayo then needing to beat Donegal to stay up. So it's now time to regroup and fix all energies on winning ugly in Castlebar. Not beyond possible for this team.
Come again lads

MadgeKing (Cavan) - Posts: 489 - 13/03/2017 09:34:41    1966605

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If you had been told before the game that Cavan would lose by 7 points it would be easy to be philosophical. Tyrone are a good team. But to have worked so hard to get into a great position and to then just throw it away without putting up much of a fight was very disappointing.
First half we were fantastic. Battled like dogs, were very organised, broke with speed and purpose, our kick passing was fantastic, very patient when we got up field, usually made the right decisions, picked out the men in space and kicked some wonderful points. We looked comfortable at the back, frustrated Tyrone and looked much the better team. If we could learn to tackle properly we would have been much further ahead at half time. Despite the defensive inclination of both teams it was actually a very end to end and free flowing game. Very enjoyable and a very high standard.
Second half was very poor and hard to explain what happened. Did we run out of energy? Did Tyrone pick up the pace? The wind was a factor but how big? Maybe it meant Tyrone didn't have to work the ball up as far to the danger area and left us less compact at the back. Possible but not enough of an excuse. We still looked dangerous initially when we got up field and Madden finished a good move. The introduction of Bradley seemed to completely spook us and swung momentum totally to Tyrone. He ran at us, first 2 touches he kicked 2 points and lifted the home support. Tyrone players visibly grew on the field while we shrank. After that it was shambolic. We were hemmed in our own half for pretty much the rest of the game. We couldn't get our hands on the ball, couldn't win a kick out, even the good ones we fumbled and turned over under no pressure. Our kick passing was dreadful, straight to Tyrone players. No support play, no organisation, no self belief, no leadership. The 13m free summed up our day. This was an easy score to bring us back to 2 points and get us motoring again but no one wanted to take it. Gearoid stepped up but it was on his wrong side. They looked out to Mackey in the middle of the field but he turned away and pretended not to see them. Result was POC taking it and hitting the corner flag. I thought this was very unfair on him and then he was taken off. Full time couldn't come quick enough. Everything Tyrone touched turned to gold. Another 10 minutes and it would have been an annihilation.
Hard to know where to go from here. There is flashbacks of pre 2012. Look good for a while and then indecision and fear spread through the team like wildfire. Mattie needs to sort it out quick and maybe cop himself on as well. The Pontius Pilate routine in the interviews after matches won't wash for long.

Hardtimes (Cavan) - Posts: 1056 - 13/03/2017 14:47:35    1966735

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At least we know one thing, playing the players at more natural positions works! I was not at the game but heard Dunne done well on Kavanagh. Mattie needs to stop messing around with players positions, back to Dunne for example, he is a natural full back-leave him there.

McGiolla (Cavan) - Posts: 42 - 13/03/2017 16:56:18    1966779

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Replying To McGiolla:  "At least we know one thing, playing the players at more natural positions works! I was not at the game but heard Dunne done well on Kavanagh. Mattie needs to stop messing around with players positions, back to Dunne for example, he is a natural full back-leave him there."
Yeah but Cavanagh played out the field for a lot of game. Dunne done well on the couple high balls went in at start of second half. He's in trouble if someone with pace starts full forward.

doratheexplorer (Cavan) - Posts: 1467 - 13/03/2017 21:11:32    1966841

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