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Replying To seanorinn: "So before the National League kicks off....people need to take a reality check. Not one current Cavan player would get within an inch of the panel of the bigger teams.
That's the starting point....now, for anyone who attended this years club championship, apart from the Gaels, the football, the skill levels and the basics were very poor. I dont recall any current high profile County player having a stand out Championship. Those who stood out were your non-county players, and in fairness to Mattie, these are the players that he drafted into the squad for trials and the McKenna Cup. But then again, the championship is run off over a short period of time, can you really judge a player over a short period of time.
So to get to the point, the players we have are not good enough. The reason why is simple and will take a long time to fix. Players need to be coached properly from a young age, they need to be left with their clubs and forget this nonsense of development squads, they dont work, players in development squads think they've made it, whilst their friends left behind in their clubs feel rejected.
Senior Club Football needs to be restructured, we need a competitive league, regular games every weekend, club needs to come before County, that means a County Manager having the balls to change things. As I stated above, judge a player who has played regularly, a player that has played 10/12 games in a row in a competitive league.
Back in the 80s, the Gaels commenced their underage strategy, the basic skills were taught, slowly but surely, the work started to pay off, they started to dominate at underage, and then a number of minor wins in the 90s and then the holy grail of senior championships, and playing a great brand of fast, free moving football. Thats where we need to get to if Cavan Football is ever going to change.
cavanblueman (Cavan) - 17/01/2018 09:16:52 2068793
You have got it almost spot on out from a few
One, the gaels are no better than the others don't be under any illusion's about that.
Two, when you got the previous seniors to win 5 or six in a row you forgot that the wheel keeps turning by that I mean it starts all over again to keep players coming through the system, as it stand now you have a head start because everyone else forgot to do this.
Sadly other clubs failed to do that but are now suffering.
Killygarry and Crosserlough seem to be bringing a nice group forward so it wil be interesting to see how they do in a few years and they are working at all underage level male and female.
I can tell you not all players that stood out up to the 1/4 final stages were in for the McKenna cup thats for sure." Cavanblueman, I've no issue with some of what you say but if a player from a club is going to stand out then I think that 4-7 club championship games is more than adequate in which to do so, especially if, as you say, the general quality of player that he's competing against is so poor.
Skelling (USA) - Posts: 289 - 17/01/2018 10:58:24
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Adult club football is definitely holding us back and needs a serious restructure and club players need to be shown more respect with regards to fixture scheduling. Club football is where footballers are moulded and it's with the clubs players learn and hone the basic skills. When they get the call up to county the priority for managers is to get them fitter and stronger and used to team system. Time within the group is limited and if their basic skills need developing at this stage then we're in trouble.
Hardtimes (Cavan) - Posts: 1056 - 17/01/2018 18:25:17
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Replying To Hardtimes: "Adult club football is definitely holding us back and needs a serious restructure and club players need to be shown more respect with regards to fixture scheduling. Club football is where footballers are moulded and it's with the clubs players learn and hone the basic skills. When they get the call up to county the priority for managers is to get them fitter and stronger and used to team system. Time within the group is limited and if their basic skills need developing at this stage then we're in trouble." Decent junior and intermediate players need to be kept in the panel and not discarded so easily because they will never improve by just going back to their clubs. Panels nowadays consist of 30/35 players .. 10 of those could be players with potential and no experience that need to be around more experienced players.
Inaroundehouse (Cavan) - Posts: 975 - 17/01/2018 19:57:04
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Replying To Inaroundehouse: "Decent junior and intermediate players need to be kept in the panel and not discarded so easily because they will never improve by just going back to their clubs. Panels nowadays consist of 30/35 players .. 10 of those could be players with potential and no experience that need to be around more experienced players." Replying To Hardtimes: "Adult club football is definitely holding us back and needs a serious restructure and club players need to be shown more respect with regards to fixture scheduling. Club football is where footballers are moulded and it's with the clubs players learn and hone the basic skills. When they get the call up to county the priority for managers is to get them fitter and stronger and used to team system. Time within the group is limited and if their basic skills need developing at this stage then we're in trouble."
Decent junior and intermediate players need to be kept in the panel and not discarded so easily because they will never improve by just going back to their clubs. Panels nowadays consist of 30/35 players .. 10 of those could be players with potential and no experience that need to be around more experienced players.
Inaroundehouse (Cavan) - 17/01/2018 19:57:04
Keep bringing in the quality lads play them in junior competitions develop them mature them and integrate them gradually to the senior set up BUT please don't shut the door on other player's keep bringing in quality and players with potential. Encourage them and maybe then we will move to the next level.
One other thing certain people have to stop listening to the know alls for while this keeps happening we will be forever fighting a dead horse.
The Quiet Man (Cavan) - Posts: 4602 - 17/01/2018 22:11:30
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Replying To Inaroundehouse: "Decent junior and intermediate players need to be kept in the panel and not discarded so easily because they will never improve by just going back to their clubs. Panels nowadays consist of 30/35 players .. 10 of those could be players with potential and no experience that need to be around more experienced players." Not saying I disagree with the crux of your argument but adult club football needs a serious overhaul. Trying to develop lads on the panel is a bit of a cart before the horse scenario IMO. Decent players just slightly off the pace of county football should be able to return to their clubs and develop and improve if there was a thriving club scene and we had a proper county championship where everyone got the chance to play senior through amalgamations like they do in Kerry.
Hardtimes (Cavan) - Posts: 1056 - 18/01/2018 05:31:09
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Replying To Hardtimes: "Not saying I disagree with the crux of your argument but adult club football needs a serious overhaul. Trying to develop lads on the panel is a bit of a cart before the horse scenario IMO. Decent players just slightly off the pace of county football should be able to return to their clubs and develop and improve if there was a thriving club scene and we had a proper county championship where everyone got the chance to play senior through amalgamations like they do in Kerry." I agree with you there. Senior championship need amalgamations to give half decent intermediate and junior players a chance to play a higher standard of football.
Also allowing them to play their respective championships with their own clubs.
All that was ok when we had no back door or super 8s for counties.
Club scenes everywhere are being pushed aside because of county fixture congestion.
As you say the kerry way is a must for us if we are serious about development and more importantly giving lads experience.
But our CB seem stuck in their ways and only seem interested in the county teams fortunes.
Inaroundehouse (Cavan) - Posts: 975 - 18/01/2018 15:44:09
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Get some in-house games going where you get the top 3/4 teams playing the county team.
Maybe a few amalgamations also playing the county team.
Stoke up a bit of rivalry among players and supporters.
Gaels beating the county team would cause plenty of talking points.
And I firmly believe they would beat them.
Inaroundehouse (Cavan) - Posts: 975 - 18/01/2018 15:47:51
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The solution is very simple...this forum is about Football....but, in reality, players nowadays spend 80/90 % of their time training or in the gym. Granted, training, strength and conditioning is part of the game, but the game is football, so surely, 90% should be playing actual football, not training or in the gym.
Changes are needed from the top, otherwise Cavan Football will never recover. Take the restructure of of underage grading. One of the reasons for this was lads doing exams. The study out found that 90% of 16/17 year olds are in pre-leaving cert year, in other words, they have no exams, so they brought in the U17 competition. So what does the County Board do? The organise the U-17 league for February, to finish in April and they wont play club football again until August when the Championship begins. So your average 16/17 year old has no exams, but wont play football again for 4 months....you see the issue? if we cant get our underage structure right, how on earth will we get the senior correct?
cavanblueman (Cavan) - Posts: 636 - 18/01/2018 17:18:39
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Replying To seanorinn: "Replying To Hardtimes: "Adult club football is definitely holding us back and needs a serious restructure and club players need to be shown more respect with regards to fixture scheduling. Club football is where footballers are moulded and it's with the clubs players learn and hone the basic skills. When they get the call up to county the priority for managers is to get them fitter and stronger and used to team system. Time within the group is limited and if their basic skills need developing at this stage then we're in trouble."
Decent junior and intermediate players need to be kept in the panel and not discarded so easily because they will never improve by just going back to their clubs. Panels nowadays consist of 30/35 players .. 10 of those could be players with potential and no experience that need to be around more experienced players.
Inaroundehouse (Cavan) - 17/01/2018 19:57:04
Keep bringing in the quality lads play them in junior competitions develop them mature them and integrate them gradually to the senior set up BUT please don't shut the door on other player's keep bringing in quality and players with potential. Encourage them and maybe then we will move to the next level.
One other thing certain people have to stop listening to the know alls for while this keeps happening we will be forever fighting a dead horse." What quality lads? thats part of the problem, we dont have any.
cavanblueman (Cavan) - Posts: 636 - 18/01/2018 17:19:21
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Replying To Skelling: " Replying To seanorinn: "So before the National League kicks off....people need to take a reality check. Not one current Cavan player would get within an inch of the panel of the bigger teams.
That's the starting point....now, for anyone who attended this years club championship, apart from the Gaels, the football, the skill levels and the basics were very poor. I dont recall any current high profile County player having a stand out Championship. Those who stood out were your non-county players, and in fairness to Mattie, these are the players that he drafted into the squad for trials and the McKenna Cup. But then again, the championship is run off over a short period of time, can you really judge a player over a short period of time.
So to get to the point, the players we have are not good enough. The reason why is simple and will take a long time to fix. Players need to be coached properly from a young age, they need to be left with their clubs and forget this nonsense of development squads, they dont work, players in development squads think they've made it, whilst their friends left behind in their clubs feel rejected.
Senior Club Football needs to be restructured, we need a competitive league, regular games every weekend, club needs to come before County, that means a County Manager having the balls to change things. As I stated above, judge a player who has played regularly, a player that has played 10/12 games in a row in a competitive league.
Back in the 80s, the Gaels commenced their underage strategy, the basic skills were taught, slowly but surely, the work started to pay off, they started to dominate at underage, and then a number of minor wins in the 90s and then the holy grail of senior championships, and playing a great brand of fast, free moving football. Thats where we need to get to if Cavan Football is ever going to change.
cavanblueman (Cavan) - 17/01/2018 09:16:52 2068793
You have got it almost spot on out from a few
One, the gaels are no better than the others don't be under any illusion's about that.
Two, when you got the previous seniors to win 5 or six in a row you forgot that the wheel keeps turning by that I mean it starts all over again to keep players coming through the system, as it stand now you have a head start because everyone else forgot to do this.
Sadly other clubs failed to do that but are now suffering.
Killygarry and Crosserlough seem to be bringing a nice group forward so it wil be interesting to see how they do in a few years and they are working at all underage level male and female.
I can tell you not all players that stood out up to the 1/4 final stages were in for the McKenna cup thats for sure." Cavanblueman, I've no issue with some of what you say but if a player from a club is going to stand out then I think that 4-7 club championship games is more than adequate in which to do so, especially if, as you say, the general quality of player that he's competing against is so poor."
cavanblueman (Cavan) - Posts: 636 - 18/01/2018 17:21:00
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Replying To Inaroundehouse: "Get some in-house games going where you get the top 3/4 teams playing the county team.
Maybe a few amalgamations also playing the county team.
Stoke up a bit of rivalry among players and supporters.
Gaels beating the county team would cause plenty of talking points.
And I firmly believe they would beat them." I don't think they would, gaels has not better players than mcaveety or Martin reilly, falkner, Moynagh, gearoid, Mackey, Raymond galligan, etc,etc, they are a good team with in the county but that's about it.
blueman1903 (Cavan) - Posts: 885 - 18/01/2018 17:23:48
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Replying To seanorinn: "So before the National League kicks off....people need to take a reality check. Not one current Cavan player would get within an inch of the panel of the bigger teams.
That's the starting point....now, for anyone who attended this years club championship, apart from the Gaels, the football, the skill levels and the basics were very poor. I dont recall any current high profile County player having a stand out Championship. Those who stood out were your non-county players, and in fairness to Mattie, these are the players that he drafted into the squad for trials and the McKenna Cup. But then again, the championship is run off over a short period of time, can you really judge a player over a short period of time.
So to get to the point, the players we have are not good enough. The reason why is simple and will take a long time to fix. Players need to be coached properly from a young age, they need to be left with their clubs and forget this nonsense of development squads, they dont work, players in development squads think they've made it, whilst their friends left behind in their clubs feel rejected.
Senior Club Football needs to be restructured, we need a competitive league, regular games every weekend, club needs to come before County, that means a County Manager having the balls to change things. As I stated above, judge a player who has played regularly, a player that has played 10/12 games in a row in a competitive league.
Back in the 80s, the Gaels commenced their underage strategy, the basic skills were taught, slowly but surely, the work started to pay off, they started to dominate at underage, and then a number of minor wins in the 90s and then the holy grail of senior championships, and playing a great brand of fast, free moving football. Thats where we need to get to if Cavan Football is ever going to change.
cavanblueman (Cavan) - 17/01/2018 09:16:52 2068793
You have got it almost spot on out from a few
One, the gaels are no better than the others don't be under any illusion's about that.
Two, when you got the previous seniors to win 5 or six in a row you forgot that the wheel keeps turning by that I mean it starts all over again to keep players coming through the system, as it stand now you have a head start because everyone else forgot to do this.
Sadly other clubs failed to do that but are now suffering.
Killygarry and Crosserlough seem to be bringing a nice group forward so it wil be interesting to see how they do in a few years and they are working at all underage level male and female.
I can tell you not all players that stood out up to the 1/4 final stages were in for the McKenna cup thats for sure." Sean...the Gaels went unbeaten in the league and championship in Cavan, all the way to an Ulster Final, where they came up against a strong Slaughtneill team. They are streets ahead of any other club in Cavan, I'm sure most people with any football knowledge will agree.
As for players standing out in the Championship, you spent the last few months telling us that you didn't see most of the championship in 2017, so how do you know what players stood out that weren't called in.
cavanblueman (Cavan) - Posts: 636 - 18/01/2018 17:25:07
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Replying To Inaroundehouse: "I agree with you there. Senior championship need amalgamations to give half decent intermediate and junior players a chance to play a higher standard of football.
Also allowing them to play their respective championships with their own clubs.
All that was ok when we had no back door or super 8s for counties.
Club scenes everywhere are being pushed aside because of county fixture congestion.
As you say the kerry way is a must for us if we are serious about development and more importantly giving lads experience.
But our CB seem stuck in their ways and only seem interested in the county teams fortunes." It was some club's who stopped this happening before not the county board.
fredflint (Cavan) - Posts: 1485 - 18/01/2018 18:25:44
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Replying To blueman1903: "I don't think they would, gaels has not better players than mcaveety or Martin reilly, falkner, Moynagh, gearoid, Mackey, Raymond galligan, etc,etc, they are a good team with in the county but that's about it." If you look at the Gaels 6 forwards and the way they play as a unit .. and that's the important bit .. unit.
Andy Graham
Micky Lyng
Nial Smith
Paul o Connor
Seanie Johnston
Martin Dunne
Well I'd drop none of them to facilitate any of the players you have mentioned.
Simple reason is .... they play as a team .
The players you mentioned don't.
That's the difference.
Inaroundehouse (Cavan) - Posts: 975 - 18/01/2018 21:15:15
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Replying To Inaroundehouse: "If you look at the Gaels 6 forwards and the way they play as a unit .. and that's the important bit .. unit.
Andy Graham
Micky Lyng
Nial Smith
Paul o Connor
Seanie Johnston
Martin Dunne
Well I'd drop none of them to facilitate any of the players you have mentioned.
Simple reason is .... they play as a team .
The players you mentioned don't.
That's the difference." So you wouldn't put gearoid McKiernan or Mackey into your front 6 there??? I doubt the gaels will be looking for you as their manager any time soon lol.
fredflint (Cavan) - Posts: 1485 - 18/01/2018 22:47:51
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Replying To Inaroundehouse: "If you look at the Gaels 6 forwards and the way they play as a unit .. and that's the important bit .. unit.
Andy Graham
Micky Lyng
Nial Smith
Paul o Connor
Seanie Johnston
Martin Dunne
Well I'd drop none of them to facilitate any of the players you have mentioned.
Simple reason is .... they play as a team .
The players you mentioned don't.
That's the difference." Well that's up to the manager to have them playing as a unit, so Mattie has a bit of work to do, how you couldn't have Mackey, dara mcvitty, and Martin reilly in that forward line is madness, and the gaels could have done with gearoid midfield, and they could have done with falkner or k Clarke full back, I like Niall Murray but he's no full back.
blueman1903 (Cavan) - Posts: 885 - 19/01/2018 09:01:45
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Replying To fredflint: "So you wouldn't put gearoid McKiernan or Mackey into your front 6 there??? I doubt the gaels will be looking for you as their manager any time soon lol." Mackey played in the County Final - he had minimal impact if no impact whatsoever, he's one dimensional and wouldnt fit into the Gaels unit.
As for McKiernan, he's not a forward, and unfortunately for him, the game has changed, you dont need tall midfielders, you need mobile ones, and he doesn't fit that category.
cavanblueman (Cavan) - Posts: 636 - 19/01/2018 09:19:54
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Replying To fredflint: "So you wouldn't put gearoid McKiernan or Mackey into your front 6 there??? I doubt the gaels will be looking for you as their manager any time soon lol." Fred...maybe you should do your homework.....check who the Gaels managers were when they won all those championships...you might just get a surprise.
cavanblueman (Cavan) - Posts: 636 - 19/01/2018 09:21:58
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Replying To fredflint: "It was some club's who stopped this happening before not the county board." since when did clubs have a say in Cavan? thats the problem with Cavan Football, many in the County Board, many of them never kicked a ball before, making decisions and dictating to clubs. Clubs have no say.
cavanblueman (Cavan) - Posts: 636 - 19/01/2018 09:24:12
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Replying To cavanblueman: "Fred...maybe you should do your homework.....check who the Gaels managers were when they won all those championships...you might just get a surprise." Are you saying that before inaroundthehouse was on here on the forum he actually managed the Gaels to multiple championships and that based on that I should accept that McVitty, Gearoid, Mackey etc are actually not good enough to make the Gaels team???
fredflint (Cavan) - Posts: 1485 - 19/01/2018 10:09:17
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