|
What a waste.
We were on the verge of a decent team, now this. Not fair to those lads tonight.
shannon414 (Cavan) - Posts: 228 - 10/01/2018 21:39:30
2067715
Link
0
|
|
Lads I know its early January but im extremely afraid of the year ahead. I have zero confidence in Mattie. The foundations that Terry Hyland built , good organisation, hard to beat, a well drilled defence he has managed to destroy in the space of 12 months.
The league starts in two weeks and he is playing players that belong in the Cavan Junior championship. We are in Big trouble .
blueskies (Cavan) - Posts: 198 - 10/01/2018 21:44:46
2067716
Link
0
|
|
that was a right drubbing by Tyrone. I don't think we will see many of those Cavan players again.
why do we in cavan have such a high turnover of players. other counties seem to have the basic set of players from one year to the next with a few changes here and there. we seem to have wholesale changes every year. there must be about 30 players missing from tonight's panel that featured in the last couple of years (and that is a conservative estimate).
here are some of them. :
Ray Galligan, Jason McLoughlin, Rory Dunne, Gearoid McKeirnan, Sean Johnstone, Cian Mackey, Dara McVitty, Connor Madden, Kilian Brady, James McEnroe, David Givney, Eugene Keating, Joe Dillon, Gerry Smith, Feargal Flanagan, Martin Reilly, Feargal Reilly, Kilian Clarke, Niall Murray, Niall McDermott, Jack Brady, Stephen Murray, Paul O' Connor, Liam Buchanan, Caoimhin O' Reilly, Josh Hayes, John McCutcheon. I'm sure people could name between 10 and 20 more that have played in the last 2-3 years. Why is it that Tyrone could line out tonight with most of their championship players from last year but we can't or decide not to. What has been learned from tonight or what benefit was there to Cavan football. I am not critisising any of the lads who lined out tonight, some of them did Ok but to put so many new faces out together in a competitive game against a very strong Tyrone team is puzzling. what exactly were the management team expecting.
I think we would have been better off playing as many of our first choice players as possible, god knows they need all the competitive football they can get. Also why do so many of our players deem it necessary to "take a year out" whilst other counties seem to be able to hold on to all their players. Are we the only county with amateur players that have jobs and university exams. How do other counties cope. ?
s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5524 - 10/01/2018 21:56:12
2067721
Link
0
|
|
Replying To blueskies: "Lads I know its early January but im extremely afraid of the year ahead. I have zero confidence in Mattie. The foundations that Terry Hyland built , good organisation, hard to beat, a well drilled defence he has managed to destroy in the space of 12 months.
The league starts in two weeks and he is playing players that belong in the Cavan Junior championship. We are in Big trouble ." Hate to say untold you so.
In 2015 Tyrone best cavan 1-13 to 0-10 in the final. Cavan didn't score in 2nd half which was enough for the usual suspects here to call for Hylands head. Today they were bet 2-22 to 0-7 and lucky not to have conceded another 3 goals. Did many young players gain from this. Ridiculous man management. We will see what damage has been done in the next few games if he doesn't get about 10 of our 1st team back.
fredflint (Cavan) - Posts: 1485 - 10/01/2018 21:57:56
2067722
Link
0
|
|
Replying To fredflint: "Hate to say untold you so.
In 2015 Tyrone best cavan 1-13 to 0-10 in the final. Cavan didn't score in 2nd half which was enough for the usual suspects here to call for Hylands head. Today they were bet 2-22 to 0-7 and lucky not to have conceded another 3 goals. Did many young players gain from this. Ridiculous man management. We will see what damage has been done in the next few games if he doesn't get about 10 of our 1st team back." People questioned my posts regarding the mount of young lads well now you see why. The young lads are not ready lets call a spade a spade. If we had of mixed experience with youth we would have at least have got some idea but nothing was learnt from all of the three matches.
I know we will have a lot coming back but for christ sake we start the national league in less than three weeks, will this have helped yes it will. It will keep the supporters from coming to the games and who can blame them.
I hope the next two weeks we will be all back in full swing for the league. To hell with anything else The League is priority.
The Quiet Man (Cavan) - Posts: 4602 - 10/01/2018 22:14:34
2067725
Link
0
|
|
Does anyone know the background team behind Mattie? What Cavan men are advising him. I am sorry to say but the Cavan team that has lined out in the last few weeks is the worst i can remember in a long long time. Ive seen better Cavan Junior squads. Listen I admire any man who puts on that jersey but jesus christ we won 4 under 21s in a row where are them players gone.
blueskies (Cavan) - Posts: 198 - 10/01/2018 22:18:50
2067726
Link
0
|
|
A Fermanagh man. That was embarrassing but was actually expecting to lose well when saw team. Ciaran Brady done some mountain of work.
doratheexplorer (Cavan) - Posts: 1467 - 10/01/2018 22:42:28
2067728
Link
0
|
|
Lads I don't see the point of people bringing Terry into the Forum. Whether that is to praise him or slate him. I was a fan of his and thought he done a good job but he was there a while. A new voice was needed. We've mad a disastrous appointment though. I think the County Board need to start considering next appointment. A lot of young Cavan managers doing good jobs here and in other counties.
doratheexplorer (Cavan) - Posts: 1467 - 10/01/2018 22:56:22
2067731
Link
0
|
|
Replying To doratheexplorer: "Lads I don't see the point of people bringing Terry into the Forum. Whether that is to praise him or slate him. I was a fan of his and thought he done a good job but he was there a while. A new voice was needed. We've mad a disastrous appointment though. I think the County Board need to start considering next appointment. A lot of young Cavan managers doing good jobs here and in other counties." Problem is you need to have a man lined up or semi lined up before the other man goes. We ended up with Mattie and Banty.
fredflint (Cavan) - Posts: 1485 - 10/01/2018 23:19:34
2067735
Link
0
|
|
Replying To doratheexplorer: "Lads I don't see the point of people bringing Terry into the Forum. Whether that is to praise him or slate him. I was a fan of his and thought he done a good job but he was there a while. A new voice was needed. We've mad a disastrous appointment though. I think the County Board need to start considering next appointment. A lot of young Cavan managers doing good jobs here and in other counties." Lads I don't see the point of people bringing Terry into the Forum. Whether that is to praise him or slate him. I was a fan of his and thought he done a good job but he was there a while. A new voice was needed. We've mad a disastrous appointment though. I think the County Board need to start considering next appointment. A lot of young Cavan managers doing good jobs here and in other counties.
doratheexplorer (Cavan) - 10/01/2018 22:56:22 2067731
Post Reply
You say a lot of young Cavan managers else where who are they Micky Graham is the only one I know doing well. Look we have other men in the county that have won senior titles with more than one club why are they being ignored if it come to changing the present man. I am all for a new manager from outside the county provided all his back room team are also from outside the county reason for this is the majority will fire the same name across the bow why because they are listening to the same people. I believe if the present manager brought all his own back room team he would be far better off thats for sure.
Players brought in and you have to question many of them. Time we had men at the helm that are not influenced by anyone from Cavan including the CCC. Players substituted during our last national league and you have to question these changes so to be honest Mattie needs to change those around him sooner rather than later.
I am sure he does not want to be know as another who failed dismally.
I wish him well for the remainder of the year but if he fails to present something positive I am afraid to say he will be history and thats a shame. But you live by the sword you die by the sword.
The Quiet Man (Cavan) - Posts: 4602 - 10/01/2018 23:49:48
2067742
Link
0
|
|
I've not read other posts yet because I wanted to post what I thought of the game without any bias from other opinions.
Positives-
Galligan fielded well in midfield on the kickouts.
Keirnan, Flanagan, Ciaran Brady, Magee played well.
Moore and Moynagh came off bench and were positive in their performance.
Daly came on for a man marking role which didn't suit him but he still gave a few hard hits and you could see he was leaving it all on the pitch and earned himself a point at the end which was good to see.
Moynagh's long passing was excellent to watch and regularly found their man.
That's it for the positives, 75 or so minutes of a game and to have only 5 positives is shocking.
Negatives-
Farrelly made a good save but his kickouts were dangerous and on a lot of occasions, Tyrone came out with the ball.
Unable to cope with Tyrone pressure, even when in our own half it often seemed that the slightest amount of pressure on our players would lead to us losing the ball.
Couldn't do the basics. So many dropped balls, poor hand passing, wayward kicks, missed shots on goal, shots dropping short and terrible defending.
Players out of position, Faulkner looked lost in midfield and why they put Flanagan in as full forward for the first half is a mystery as they didn't supply low, fast balls in for him to make use of his speed, instead kicking balls that were easily intercepted.
Galligan was brilliant in moments and shocking at others, he was very inconsistent in his play today but by the end, he had more positives than negatives.
So many missed frees, it was painful to watch Tyrone slot over frees at ease when we were missing them left, right and centre.
Inconsistency of ref, Magee fouled a Tyrone lad in on goal on the 13 and didn't even get a booking when honestly, as a Cavan supporter, it should have been black. Flanagan goes in for 50/50 ball in front of Tyrone goal and is given a black.
Scoring 1 point in the first half is despicable.
Defending was non-existent, Tyrone walked through us as our players bought every dummy the Tyrone players could even hope of selling. Lazy tackles persisted in the end and cost us frees which Tyrone converted easily.
Lack of tracking of Tyrone players at kickouts led to Tyrone easily being able to get out of their own half and attacking again.
Lack of movement when we had frees. On numerous occasions our free takers were stuck in a circle looking for a teammate looking for the ball and this lack of movement led to the slowing down of play and Keirnan taking a shot from a sideline ball which never should have happened.
Lack of leadership, there were no leaders on the pitch today. Farrelly wasn't vocal in goals and no one outfield seemed to be leading the team.
Darragh Kennedy seems to be a forward with great potential, a FORWARD, lord only knows why he was our corner back as he played best when in the Tyrone half at end of game.
Substitutions made didn't seem to make a difference, almost like our management didn't know what to change in order to turn the game around.
As you can see, this game was terrible and hopefully easily forgotten as we look to our first league game in Ennis in 2 weeks time, we need to field a strong team and make a statement or we will get eaten up in Division 2.
HonCavan (Cavan) - Posts: 8 - 11/01/2018 00:04:47
2067743
Link
0
|
|
I think time has come to see if any thing was even learned from our poor Dr Mckenna cup run this year.
Players
Good players who should be playing come league; Oisin Keirnan, Enda Flanagan, Bryan Magee, Darragh Kennedy, Thomas Galligan, Niall McKeirnan, Ciaran Brady, Jason McLoughlin, Raymond Galligan, Conor Moynagh, Conor Madden and Padraig Faulker impressed me during the 3 games.
Players who got all stars but haven't featured; Ciaran Flynn, Kevin Meehan, Niall Murray, Luke Fortune, Dillon Kiernan, Mark Keirnan, Pierce Smith, Conor Smith, Padraig Moore. These lads got picked for team of the year so arguably they should make up the majority of the first team yet 9 haven't featured, 3 didn't play great in the games, 2 have yet to return to the panel and are arguably our best players and 1, Enda Flanagan, has impressed in this run of games.
Only 9 of the 25 players who were in the panel for our last qualifier game against Tipperary have been involved.
Players who need to return; Killian Clarke, Niall Murray, Liam Buchanan, Tomas Corr, Cian Mackey, Dara McVeety, Martin Reilly, Gearoid McKeirnan, Fergal Reilly, Sean Johnstone, Joe Dillon, Caoimhin O'Reilly and Rory Dunne.
These 30 or so lads should be our panel and I can't understand why only half a team's worth of them have been used so far.
Gameplay
Defence needs to improve to match our own standards over the past 2 years. Poor tackling, poor marking have run riot so far.
Attack needs to improve, same old problems as last year. No penetration up front against even Antrim and St.Marys, a div4 county and a college team thrown together.
Needs to stick players in positions that suit them best, not messing with them in unfamiliar positions.
Need a rough starting 15 to play the league with few changes as games go.
Need a dedicated free taker.
Need shooting practise for every player bar the full back line.
Long balls should be used intermiddently as they have seemed to work very well in these games.
Kickouts under Galligan are good but we need a system in place so he always has options as often last year, he was left isolated and gave away possession from them.
We need leaders on the field who can pick the team up when heads drop.
My thoughts
We have 7 games in league and we need to stay in division 2 or else Cavan football will take years to recover.
Teams ranked higher than us in division 2 by independant.ie; Roscommon (6), Cork (10). We're ranked 11th so whilst I care little for rankings, it shows that this team deserves to stay in division 2 and relegation would be a disaster.
Every game will be difficult so we must establish our weakest opposition and they have to be must win games. Tipperary and Down are tough games that if we play well, we can win. Clare and Louth we NEED to win as they are the teams who are arguably the weakest. We need to beat Meath because they are our neighbouring county and realistically our rivals, we cannot lose to them. Roscommon have our number, they've beaten us countless times over the years even when they've been in dire poor like last year in Division 1, they are our bogey team, that streak has to end. Cork were pushed hard by Waterford in Munster and lost to Tipperary before nearly knocking Mayo out of the championship in the qualifiers. They are two different teams when they are in form and out, hopefully they will be in poor form by the time they meet us.
Our games are in the order of; Clare, Louth, Meath, Cork, Down, Roscommon and finish with Tipperary. Hopefully we can win the first 2 rounds, win 1 of the next 3 and end the league with a win against Tipp.
Needless to say, if we get relegated from Division 2 and do not have a good run in the qualifiers (I expect to lose our first game in Ulster against Donegal), Mattie's 24 month stint as manager will have achieved 2 demotions and a player exodus with zero success to show for it.
HonCavan (Cavan) - Posts: 8 - 11/01/2018 01:12:02
2067746
Link
0
|
|
Replying To doratheexplorer: "Lads I don't see the point of people bringing Terry into the Forum. Whether that is to praise him or slate him. I was a fan of his and thought he done a good job but he was there a while. A new voice was needed. We've mad a disastrous appointment though. I think the County Board need to start considering next appointment. A lot of young Cavan managers doing good jobs here and in other counties." I think we would have been better off playing as many of our first choice players as possible, god knows they need all the competitive football they can get. Also why do so many of our players deem it necessary to "take a year out" whilst other counties seem to be able to hold on to all their players. Are we the only county with amateur players that have jobs and university exams. How do other counties cope. ?
s goldrick (Cavan) - 10/01/2018 21:56:12 2067721
Post Reply
To be honest with you I am 100% behind any young lad or lady for that matter that put their education and their future first. The GAA is an amateur sport and will not pay these young people their wages. They are perfectly right good on them. There is a lot of work getting the required results to have a future so it comes first and foremost.
All right for the likes of the Dubs who all well the majority are a bus ride from training or are working within the system different story all together.
Do you think coaching would be for them at around €24000 a year if not less??? they would want to be mad.
The Quiet Man (Cavan) - Posts: 4602 - 11/01/2018 01:57:12
2067748
Link
0
|
|
Replying To fredflint: "Hate to say untold you so.
In 2015 Tyrone best cavan 1-13 to 0-10 in the final. Cavan didn't score in 2nd half which was enough for the usual suspects here to call for Hylands head. Today they were bet 2-22 to 0-7 and lucky not to have conceded another 3 goals. Did many young players gain from this. Ridiculous man management. We will see what damage has been done in the next few games if he doesn't get about 10 of our 1st team back." How long was Hyland in charge at that stage?
cavanblueman (Cavan) - Posts: 636 - 11/01/2018 09:21:30
2067755
Link
0
|
|
Replying To cavanblueman: "How long was Hyland in charge at that stage?" You are missing the point.
I am just wondering if Deanmartintynan might reappear asking to get rid of this manager too as that was such an important thing. He seems to have gone quiet not that his agenda has been fulfilled.
fredflint (Cavan) - Posts: 1485 - 11/01/2018 10:42:54
2067770
Link
1
|
|
Replying To fredflint: "You are missing the point.
I am just wondering if Deanmartintynan might reappear asking to get rid of this manager too as that was such an important thing. He seems to have gone quiet not that his agenda has been fulfilled." hi Fred, just reading all comments and personally I don't think he is missing the point. I for one fully supported Hyland for the majority of his tenure. However Hyland took over a team on the verge of Division 4, Mattie took over a newly promoted team in Division 1. That being said the panel that Mattie took over was very settled with little changes over the previous 2/3 years. However there was only one way Mattie could go and that was down from Division 1. We were inexperienced at that level and with a new manager it was always going to be an uphill struggle. In Contrast Hyland settled the ship in Division 3 and slowly brought us up the leagues and used the McKenna Cup to rotate a close knit panel. Tyrone have taken the McKenna Cup very seriously in the last 8 years or so whereas Mattie is using the competition completely different to try out players like lots of other counties do. You cant really take anything from last night. But to be unbiased you have to look at where Terry started with Cavan. Don't get me wrong, the jury is out on Mattie and the next 3 months is going to decide his fate. Cavan should be at worst a competitive Division 2 side.
cavan97 (Cavan) - Posts: 369 - 11/01/2018 11:22:52
2067782
Link
0
|
|
Replying To cavan97: "hi Fred, just reading all comments and personally I don't think he is missing the point. I for one fully supported Hyland for the majority of his tenure. However Hyland took over a team on the verge of Division 4, Mattie took over a newly promoted team in Division 1. That being said the panel that Mattie took over was very settled with little changes over the previous 2/3 years. However there was only one way Mattie could go and that was down from Division 1. We were inexperienced at that level and with a new manager it was always going to be an uphill struggle. In Contrast Hyland settled the ship in Division 3 and slowly brought us up the leagues and used the McKenna Cup to rotate a close knit panel. Tyrone have taken the McKenna Cup very seriously in the last 8 years or so whereas Mattie is using the competition completely different to try out players like lots of other counties do. You cant really take anything from last night. But to be unbiased you have to look at where Terry started with Cavan. Don't get me wrong, the jury is out on Mattie and the next 3 months is going to decide his fate. Cavan should be at worst a competitive Division 2 side." If I have to spell it out. Hyland was in a McKenna cup final and lost to a very strong Tyrone team by 6. Famously not scoring in the 2nd half. There was a line of posters on here (currently very quiet) who wanted him gone because of that. Fast Forward 2 yrs an even worse result against the same team - where are these posters now, is mattie not held to their idiotic standards?
My opinion - you dont fire a manager because of a mckenna cup game, not then and not now. My point is, there are many posters on here who dont care about cavan football and are working to agendas. Thats all.
As for Mattie. I am not calling for him to be removed but I am saying that what I am seeing and hearing tells me this guy is threading water. I genuinely hope he proves me wrong and we have a good league and championship but if you asked me to put money on it I would say not on current showing.
fredflint (Cavan) - Posts: 1485 - 11/01/2018 11:48:43
2067784
Link
2
|
|
If the management team were checking out "up and coming talent " in last nights game they got their answer in spades.
Obviously nothing there.
Looks like division 3 football next year.
Imagine all those under 21 titles and final appearances and nothing to show for them.
Something wrong someplace in the development of our players.
The excuses of being to young doesn't work anymore.
Virginia (Cavan) - Posts: 101 - 11/01/2018 12:00:20
2067787
Link
0
|
|
Replying To fredflint: "If I have to spell it out. Hyland was in a McKenna cup final and lost to a very strong Tyrone team by 6. Famously not scoring in the 2nd half. There was a line of posters on here (currently very quiet) who wanted him gone because of that. Fast Forward 2 yrs an even worse result against the same team - where are these posters now, is mattie not held to their idiotic standards?
My opinion - you dont fire a manager because of a mckenna cup game, not then and not now. My point is, there are many posters on here who dont care about cavan football and are working to agendas. Thats all.
As for Mattie. I am not calling for him to be removed but I am saying that what I am seeing and hearing tells me this guy is threading water. I genuinely hope he proves me wrong and we have a good league and championship but if you asked me to put money on it I would say not on current showing." Fred...Cavan lost to Tyrone in a McKenna Cup Final to Tyrone, having failed to score in the entire second half. The manager at the time was Terry Hyland, with 3/4 years senior management experience under his belt and he played a full strength Cavan side at that. Terry had absolutely no answer to Hartes tactics in the 2nd half
Mattie is only going into only his 2nd year, Cavan played a full strength Tyrone side last night, the Cavan team were a team of young lads with no experience, so please, dont try and compare last nights loss to the McKenna Cup Final.
As much as Hyland did with Cavan, he won absolutely nothing at Senior level, the football under him was nauseating, yes, he won a few Ulster U21s, but where are all those players now, how many of them did he nurture onto the Senior team?
Cavan Football is now suffering, because nearly all club managers have tried to adopt Terrys negative tactics, and players dont know how to play attacking football. It will take Mattie 2/3 years to tidy up Terrys mess.
cavanblueman (Cavan) - Posts: 636 - 11/01/2018 13:10:50
2067793
Link
0
|
|
Interesting to see how we go in Division 2 now McKenna Cup is over- hopefully we can hold our own. We've definitely taken a different approach to the pre-season competition with this management compared to previous. We'll know better after 4 league games or so where we're heading and if Mattie actually has a future with us. I wouldn't be too critical of a weak selection at this time of year- it's not easy to give everyone meaningful game time. I understand why people might be angry over a hammering but Donegal last year in the McKenna Cup took a few beatings too but went very well in the league. Management may have been looking for new players to step up and show leadership without the comfort of more established players. If we can identify new additions to the team this way then it's progress. It's unfortunate on the lads that get cast aside but sport is brutal that way and sometimes you only get the one chance and the onus is on you alone to take it.
From last year it's obvious we need a strong CHB, strong mobile established midfielders and we desperately need to introduce some speed and directness into our forwards. Leadership in the team was sadly lacking too when things got tough on the field. Hopefully we will see improvements in these areas once the new additions and less established young players settle in.
Hardtimes (Cavan) - Posts: 1056 - 11/01/2018 13:36:34
2067798
Link
0
|