Donegal Forum

All Ireland Gold 2012 & 2014

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Replying To Dochas&Gloir:  "Lads, The 2014 final was disaster for Jim. If he had been manager of Kerry or Dublin, the sack would have followed!

He was lucky that the media loves Kerry and their focus went in that direction and on the unfortunate kick out error Papa made!

The line out was that of manager trying to be too clever and out thinking himself....

But, his failure to realize and make radical team changes early in that game, can't be defended or forgiven!

It was so very clear when the subs came on (Molloy etc) that they should have started.........

That was probably Kerry's weakest ever All Ireland winning team and without doubt, they did not expect to win!"
A lot of mistakes were made ,on the field nothing to do with Jim ,namely bad passes by Ryan and other players ,leaving the goals unprotected by our top players like the McGee,s and leaving smaller ones to take care of O,Donaghue and other taller players again nothing to do with Jim ,and we missed two or three goal,s ,a game we should have one ,u haven't mentioned the superb substitution of Christy Your ,so so eager to put the blame on Jim ,when it had nothing to do with him ,,Put it down to one that got away on another day we could have won comfortably .

gaanervous (Donegal) - Posts: 186 - 16/06/2020 14:48:48    2281041

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Replying To Dochas&Gloir:  "Lads, The 2014 final was disaster for Jim. If he had been manager of Kerry or Dublin, the sack would have followed!

He was lucky that the media loves Kerry and their focus went in that direction and on the unfortunate kick out error Papa made!

The line out was that of manager trying to be too clever and out thinking himself....

But, his failure to realize and make radical team changes early in that game, can't be defended or forgiven!

It was so very clear when the subs came on (Molloy etc) that they should have started.........

That was probably Kerry's weakest ever All Ireland winning team and without doubt, they did not expect to win!"
Personally I thought we played poorly on the day, most of our players got nowhere near their normal level. You just can't expect to win an All-Ireland final with so many players off colour. I don't see any glaring errors by Jim on the line or that they tactically out-thought us. Kerry played a very defensive game and made it a war of attrition, we should have been used to this given how many of these type of games we own in Ulster. There is merit in questioning the starting 15 not including Paddy McBrearty. However Paddy and Christy Toye had been turning games for us all year coming from the bench. We had a bad day at the office which can happen, that defeat still hurts though.

Apart from the semi-final win over Dublin, I don't think the team got anywhere near the levels of performance in 2014 as they did in 2012. In hindsight we were an aging team and the brilliant Com McFadden had lost his form. If anything, it was a management miracle by Jim to get us that far in 2014.

Green_Gold (Donegal) - Posts: 1658 - 16/06/2020 15:57:10    2281049

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Replying To gaanervous:  "A lot of mistakes were made ,on the field nothing to do with Jim ,namely bad passes by Ryan and other players ,leaving the goals unprotected by our top players like the McGee,s and leaving smaller ones to take care of O,Donaghue and other taller players again nothing to do with Jim ,and we missed two or three goal,s ,a game we should have one ,u haven't mentioned the superb substitution of Christy Your ,so so eager to put the blame on Jim ,when it had nothing to do with him ,,Put it down to one that got away on another day we could have won comfortably ."
There was loads of mistakes on the pitch that had nothing to do with the manager but I remember an interview with Neil Mc Gee since then where he said that he didn't feel ready for the battle on the morning of the 14 final compared to the 12 final. That is the respinsibility of a manager as I think that general malaise was evident throughout the team. The biggest mistake made was starting jigger. Mc Brearty had All Ireland day experience and is a better player than Jigger. If he's fit then he starts. It was a massive gamble to put Jigger in from the start and the proof since is that he isn't at the level required to be a top forward.
I have huge respect for Jim and we would still be without an AI since 92 if he hadn't come on board but that doesn't mean he can't be criticised and I think he, along with the team made too many mistakes on the day!

Tir Conaill Abu (Donegal) - Posts: 1580 - 17/06/2020 12:04:26    2281109

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Replying To Tir Conaill Abu:  "There was loads of mistakes on the pitch that had nothing to do with the manager but I remember an interview with Neil Mc Gee since then where he said that he didn't feel ready for the battle on the morning of the 14 final compared to the 12 final. That is the respinsibility of a manager as I think that general malaise was evident throughout the team. The biggest mistake made was starting jigger. Mc Brearty had All Ireland day experience and is a better player than Jigger. If he's fit then he starts. It was a massive gamble to put Jigger in from the start and the proof since is that he isn't at the level required to be a top forward.
I have huge respect for Jim and we would still be without an AI since 92 if he hadn't come on board but that doesn't mean he can't be criticised and I think he, along with the team made too many mistakes on the day!"
I repeat that is a load of rubbish ,again going around the house to put the blame on Jim, I don't know how well u know Neil McGee ,but for me Neil would have played with a broken leg rather than miss the opportunity to play in an All Ireland ,just the same as Paddy McGrath in a previous under21 final ,that's the character of such players .Jim in no way deny them that but using it to have a go at Jim say,s it all .If j.Jim got the manager,s job when he first wanted it we could now probably have another couple of All Ireland,s when our players were that much younger ,so for me Jim will always be a hero .It,s for people like Pat Spillane not suppose Donegal supporters .

Gaafanatic61 (Donegal) - Posts: 48 - 17/06/2020 13:57:20    2281118

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Nothing to do with the All Ireland's but just an inquiry ,what has happened to a very intelligent poster who went by the name of Gary Mac.

gaanervous (Donegal) - Posts: 186 - 17/06/2020 14:37:20    2281122

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Replying To gaanervous:  "Nothing to do with the All Ireland's but just an inquiry ,what has happened to a very intelligent poster who went by the name of Gary Mac."
Yea one of the really good posters . Well versed onfootball and very knowledgeable plus no agendas. Hope everything ok with him

rorysboys (Donegal) - Posts: 770 - 17/06/2020 19:15:50    2281149

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Replying To gaanervous:  "Nothing to do with the All Ireland's but just an inquiry ,what has happened to a very intelligent poster who went by the name of Gary Mac."
You are fooling nobody :)

banterladhi (Donegal) - Posts: 502 - 17/06/2020 19:22:09    2281153

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Replying To Tir Conaill Abu:  "There was loads of mistakes on the pitch that had nothing to do with the manager but I remember an interview with Neil Mc Gee since then where he said that he didn't feel ready for the battle on the morning of the 14 final compared to the 12 final. That is the respinsibility of a manager as I think that general malaise was evident throughout the team. The biggest mistake made was starting jigger. Mc Brearty had All Ireland day experience and is a better player than Jigger. If he's fit then he starts. It was a massive gamble to put Jigger in from the start and the proof since is that he isn't at the level required to be a top forward.
I have huge respect for Jim and we would still be without an AI since 92 if he hadn't come on board but that doesn't mean he can't be criticised and I think he, along with the team made too many mistakes on the day!"
You are spot on.No matter how good a manager is they can get things wrong.Why is it alright to say the players didn't play well but not alright to say the manager had a bad day.Big questiona have to be asked about how poorly Donegal performed in 2013.The game against Mayo was an embarrasment,after all Mayo had the same length of season as us.

gunman (Donegal) - Posts: 642 - 17/06/2020 19:31:54    2281155

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Replying To gunman:  "You are spot on.No matter how good a manager is they can get things wrong.Why is it alright to say the players didn't play well but not alright to say the manager had a bad day.Big questiona have to be asked about how poorly Donegal performed in 2013.The game against Mayo was an embarrasment,after all Mayo had the same length of season as us."
U don't think that had anything. to do with Rory as he was still involved at that time or is that conveniently forgotten ,just blame Jim .

gaanervous (Donegal) - Posts: 186 - 18/06/2020 13:04:38    2281193

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Replying To gaanervous:  "U don't think that had anything. to do with Rory as he was still involved at that time or is that conveniently forgotten ,just blame Jim ."
I definitely would not just blame Jim.Rory and him jointly took the credit the two years before and it would only be right that along with the players they took some of the blame for 2013.

gunman (Donegal) - Posts: 642 - 18/06/2020 17:48:32    2281217

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2014 final was a disaster from the first ball, the players have to take responsibility for their own performance and mistakes, but likewise nobody can say Jim and Rory had a flawless day at the office that day against Kerry.

Margins are extremely fine, in O'Connors case a matter of inches separate him from being an All Ireland final goal scorer and hauled off after 25mins in what is now regarded as a poor selection ( Worth noting that it wasnt McBrearty who came on for him, therefore reasonable to assume it was not a straight choice between both of them to start, it was more likely O'Connor over Toye)

All hindsight now but IMO you start with your strongest 15 and bring on the best subs you can. McBrearty and Toye starting, given the impact they had on the game- if we had them on the pitch from the off i think it would have turned the balance in our favour.

These are all ifs and buts, you get to chose the team once play the game once, and there is one result at the end,

That game will haunt us until we win our next All Ireland.

ManusFromHeaven (Donegal) - Posts: 291 - 19/06/2020 10:09:31    2281250

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Replying To ManusFromHeaven:  "2014 final was a disaster from the first ball, the players have to take responsibility for their own performance and mistakes, but likewise nobody can say Jim and Rory had a flawless day at the office that day against Kerry.

Margins are extremely fine, in O'Connors case a matter of inches separate him from being an All Ireland final goal scorer and hauled off after 25mins in what is now regarded as a poor selection ( Worth noting that it wasnt McBrearty who came on for him, therefore reasonable to assume it was not a straight choice between both of them to start, it was more likely O'Connor over Toye)

All hindsight now but IMO you start with your strongest 15 and bring on the best subs you can. McBrearty and Toye starting, given the impact they had on the game- if we had them on the pitch from the off i think it would have turned the balance in our favour.

These are all ifs and buts, you get to chose the team once play the game once, and there is one result at the end,

That game will haunt us until we win our next All Ireland."
And that won't be for along time till u find someone as superb as Jim ,so u will have plenty of time to moan and gripe ,your only problem is Jim didn't come from your town or club,sour grapes I think .

gaanervous (Donegal) - Posts: 186 - 19/06/2020 10:34:26    2281256

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Replying To gaanervous:  "And that won't be for along time till u find someone as superb as Jim ,so u will have plenty of time to moan and gripe ,your only problem is Jim didn't come from your town or club,sour grapes I think ."
Jim mc Guiness was a brilliant manager for Donegal. Would rate him as an outstanding manager. I loved going to games when he was in charge. To blame him for losing the 2014 final is over the top. A lot of people said not starting paddy mc brearty caused us the all Ireland in hindsight it probably did. If jigger has to score that goal would Donegal have win they probably would. I've no doubt that early Kerry goal was a big factor in how the game finished. It was very unlike Donegal to concede a goal like that and when we we were starting to come good the papa mistake was critical. I've always been of the opinion that no matter how good a manager you are you need luck with you too. You need the wee rubs going your way and most of all you need a good run with injuries which we definitely had in 2012..

rorysboys (Donegal) - Posts: 770 - 19/06/2020 13:16:01    2281270

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Replying To rorysboys:  "Jim mc Guiness was a brilliant manager for Donegal. Would rate him as an outstanding manager. I loved going to games when he was in charge. To blame him for losing the 2014 final is over the top. A lot of people said not starting paddy mc brearty caused us the all Ireland in hindsight it probably did. If jigger has to score that goal would Donegal have win they probably would. I've no doubt that early Kerry goal was a big factor in how the game finished. It was very unlike Donegal to concede a goal like that and when we we were starting to come good the papa mistake was critical. I've always been of the opinion that no matter how good a manager you are you need luck with you too. You need the wee rubs going your way and most of all you need a good run with injuries which we definitely had in 2012.."
Yep. Even in 2012 you had wee things which went our way. Papa's save vs Tyrone for example.
Then in the Kerry game, they had a great chance to equalize just before Lacey's insurance point. It would have been interesting to see how we would have reacted if Kerry had pulled level at that late stage.

Whatever about Jigger, I think the bigger call might have been Colm McFadden in the 2014 final. Now I have the utmost respect for what Colm gave to Donegal, and in 2012 he was simply outstanding. But in 2014 he was nowhere near that level, even taking the Dublin game into account when he scored 1-3. A rampaging McBrearty might have given Marc O'Sé more to think about than a misfiring McFadden.

But sure we're all experts after the event. That result will haunt us all til the day we die I think. I tried watching the game back at the start of lockdown. After about 5 minutes switched it off. I figured lockdown would be depressing enough as it was without me adding to it!

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 6872 - 19/06/2020 13:55:26    2281273

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Replying To ManusFromHeaven:  "2014 final was a disaster from the first ball, the players have to take responsibility for their own performance and mistakes, but likewise nobody can say Jim and Rory had a flawless day at the office that day against Kerry.

Margins are extremely fine, in O'Connors case a matter of inches separate him from being an All Ireland final goal scorer and hauled off after 25mins in what is now regarded as a poor selection ( Worth noting that it wasnt McBrearty who came on for him, therefore reasonable to assume it was not a straight choice between both of them to start, it was more likely O'Connor over Toye)

All hindsight now but IMO you start with your strongest 15 and bring on the best subs you can. McBrearty and Toye starting, given the impact they had on the game- if we had them on the pitch from the off i think it would have turned the balance in our favour.

These are all ifs and buts, you get to chose the team once play the game once, and there is one result at the end,

That game will haunt us until we win our next All Ireland."
Was Rory not gone for 2014.

gunman (Donegal) - Posts: 642 - 19/06/2020 14:04:05    2281274

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Replying To gunman:  "Was Rory not gone for 2014."
Rory got the blame for a lot of things but we can't blame him for this as he was gone in 2013.

rorysboys (Donegal) - Posts: 770 - 19/06/2020 15:00:00    2281283

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Rumoured today that Donegal v Tyrone game will be on the Sunday before the championship meeting. Not ideal for both teams. How will both teams approach it. Interesting times ahead..

rorysboys (Donegal) - Posts: 770 - 20/06/2020 10:51:36    2281347

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Replying To gunman:  "Was Rory not gone for 2014."
Indeed he was. That was a mistake on my part.

ManusFromHeaven (Donegal) - Posts: 291 - 22/06/2020 10:58:06    2281502

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Replying To Lockjaw:  "Yep. Even in 2012 you had wee things which went our way. Papa's save vs Tyrone for example.
Then in the Kerry game, they had a great chance to equalize just before Lacey's insurance point. It would have been interesting to see how we would have reacted if Kerry had pulled level at that late stage.

Whatever about Jigger, I think the bigger call might have been Colm McFadden in the 2014 final. Now I have the utmost respect for what Colm gave to Donegal, and in 2012 he was simply outstanding. But in 2014 he was nowhere near that level, even taking the Dublin game into account when he scored 1-3. A rampaging McBrearty might have given Marc O'Sé more to think about than a misfiring McFadden.

But sure we're all experts after the event. That result will haunt us all til the day we die I think. I tried watching the game back at the start of lockdown. After about 5 minutes switched it off. I figured lockdown would be depressing enough as it was without me adding to it!"
McFadden did not have his best year but there was never a chance he was gonna be dropped for the final given his big game experience and the 1-3 he has hit against Dublin.

If you ever get round to watching the final again you will be shocked at how ineffective he was from play and how he lasted the 70+ minutes, of course its all justified if he punches the ball into the net in the final move of the game. I dont think he got a shot off from play all day and given how much attention Murphy was coming in for it meant we had nothing happening inside until McBrearty and indeed Brick arrive and and between them got 5 or 6 shots on goal and 3pts.

I think if you look round the main football counties of Ireland, Dublin, Kerry, Cork, Tyrone, Mayo etc.... all are familiar with the concept of losing an All Ireland and dealing with that hurt! It was fresh and brand new to us which is why i believe it will continue to sting until we put it right the next time but will always remain a source of irritation. Also, its only when you get a chance to reflect back over the period of 5 or 6 years that come after it- you see that it did knock the stuffing out of us. In the sense that if we WIN that All Ireland in 2014, i dont think we are sitting here in 2020 saying we havent even been back at the Semi Final stage since. A bounce comes from winning it in the years to follow generally where as losing clearly is a body blow that does effect progress in the years which follow.

ManusFromHeaven (Donegal) - Posts: 291 - 22/06/2020 11:09:55    2281505

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Replying To ManusFromHeaven:  "McFadden did not have his best year but there was never a chance he was gonna be dropped for the final given his big game experience and the 1-3 he has hit against Dublin.

If you ever get round to watching the final again you will be shocked at how ineffective he was from play and how he lasted the 70+ minutes, of course its all justified if he punches the ball into the net in the final move of the game. I dont think he got a shot off from play all day and given how much attention Murphy was coming in for it meant we had nothing happening inside until McBrearty and indeed Brick arrive and and between them got 5 or 6 shots on goal and 3pts.

I think if you look round the main football counties of Ireland, Dublin, Kerry, Cork, Tyrone, Mayo etc.... all are familiar with the concept of losing an All Ireland and dealing with that hurt! It was fresh and brand new to us which is why i believe it will continue to sting until we put it right the next time but will always remain a source of irritation. Also, its only when you get a chance to reflect back over the period of 5 or 6 years that come after it- you see that it did knock the stuffing out of us. In the sense that if we WIN that All Ireland in 2014, i dont think we are sitting here in 2020 saying we havent even been back at the Semi Final stage since. A bounce comes from winning it in the years to follow generally where as losing clearly is a body blow that does effect progress in the years which follow."
The most disappointing thing for me Manus is that the 1992 team and the 2012 team did not add a second All Ireland.To be generally accepted as a great team I think you need to do that.Tyrone managed three and the Down team of the 90's got two.Derry like ourselves only one.I do believe (although we will never know) that had we not been decimated by injuries in the 1993 Ulster Final we would have won it that year.

gunman (Donegal) - Posts: 642 - 22/06/2020 15:15:52    2281533

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