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Super 8 General Discussion

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Replying To moc.dna:  "Super 8's were the brainchild of the outgoing Ard Stiurothoir, surely somebody could ask him what preparation & planning was entailed around the dead rubber games or was it all just done as a departing vanity project or bending to the pressure exerted by TV Rights & the money they invested. One thing for sure is that every eventuality wasn't thought out & the planning & execution of it was sub standard.
Super 8's are actually killing Gaelic football & attendances are falling dramatically. As for the BS story that was spun about TV rights at the time & the Diaspora by the last President & DG, the sad recent figures where at one stage no one was tuned in to one of our games on SKY, yet viewing figures for a televised game on RTE were massive showed that we were sold a pup."
I think that's a bit unfair to the last Ard Stiurothoir. I do think he proposed this as he did not believe a bigger overhaul would have been voted through.
A group stage earlier in the competition would have faced more opposition as it would have impacted county championships in more counties.
Considering each provence has different number of teams and many other factors changes to the inter county competition structures are always going to be complicated.

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 629 - 05/08/2019 16:31:20    2221206

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Replying To legendzxix:  "There has been debate about a 5, 6 or 8 team Leinster Hurling Championship.

The football provinces can have 5, 6 or 8 team competitions as suits their needs and that of the All-Ireland Championship.

Example:
Munster - 1 group of 5 teams.
Connaught - 1 group of 5 teams.
Ulster - 2 groups of 4 teams.
Leinster - 2 groups of 4 teams.

Tier 2 - 1 group of 6 teams. (Tier 2 winner promoted to their provincial championship.)

Qualifier Round 1 (6 teams): Ulster and Leinster semi-finals losers, Munster 3rd and Connaught 3rd.
Qualifier Round 2 (8 teams): 4 provincial runners-up, 3 Q1 winners and Tier 2 winner.
Quarter-finals (8 teams): 4 provincial winners and 4 Q2 winners."
Awful proposal. A 6 team Tier 2 won't generate any interest.

Hawkeye9212 (Donegal) - Posts: 263 - 05/08/2019 16:36:20    2221209

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Replying To Hawkeye9212:  "It works in hurling because there are two provinces with 5 teams each."
It works also because there are mainly evenly matched teams.

It'd be a disaster in football.

Ulster would be good, Connacht ok and then the other 2, probably rubbish.

I think there just needs to be a separation of Provincial championship and All Ireland.

Play the Provinces in March and April as the season opener.Club championships can be played around those fixtures.

Championship should be 2 tiers, each with 2 groups of 8.

These fixtures can also be decided from the start of the year.

Teams play 7 matches from May to Mid August. Loads of breaks, club should be played between fixtures.

Finals return to being in September.

Give teams chances to recover but still give teams at all levels way more games in the best months.

The worst thing about groups of 4 is that there's not enough opportunity for a range of results. Makes it much more likely that teams can have nothing to play for at the final game.

It happens less in the league (other than division 4 with no relegation) because there's a range of results.

If there's any competition in February it should be very developmental.

The main competition is the All Ireland, which couldn't be more fair.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 2907 - 05/08/2019 16:53:57    2221217

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Replying To Hawkeye9212:  "Just put in another backdoor format or return to single-elimination.

Quarter-Finals

Round 1

4 Provincial champions and 4 Qualifiers. The 4 winners advance to Round 2A. The 4 losers advance to Round 2B.

Roscommon v Tyrone
Dublin v Cork
Donegal v Meath
Kerry v Mayo

Round 2A

The 4 Round 1 winners enter this round. The winners enter the semi-finals. The losers play the winners of Round 2B in Round 3.

Tyrone v Dublin
Donegal v Kerry

Round 2B

The losers from Round 1 enter this round. The winners play the losers of Round 2A in Round 3. The losers are eliminated.

Roscommon v Cork
Meath v Mayo

Round 3

The losers of Round 2A and winners of Round 2B enter this round. The winners enter the semi-finals with the winners of Round 2A. The losers are eliminated.

Mayo v Tyrone
Donegal v Roscommon

Semi-Finals

Dublin v Mayo
Kerry v Donegal"
With your suggestion, they could just opt for a champions round of the 4 provincial champions and a preliminary quarter-final of the 4 qualifiers. Champions Round winners into the semi-finals. Champions Round losers and Preliminary Quarter-final winners into the quarter-finals.

I'd be in favour of the provincial group stage. Traditional quarter-finals or champions round/double elimination format is optional as deemed by a majority at Congress.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 6261 - 05/08/2019 16:57:25    2221219

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Replying To legendzxix:  "A provincial group stage is the way to go. It's working in hurling and everyone is getting on with the game."
I dont think anyone wants to see a Munster or Leinster round robin format in football, its bad enough even the way it is without making us watch more matches in these provinces.

KY4SAM2015 (Kerry) - Posts: 872 - 05/08/2019 17:03:08    2221222

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Replying To tearintom:  "Is there any other sport where for example take Tyrone this year where a team gets beaten, then ends up in knockout competition where 1 loss and they're gone, then back into another scenario where they can not only get beaten again but can effectively throw a game (again not a slight on Tyrone they're well within their rights to do what they did) and end up being rewarded with a semi final spot.

Meanwhile Donegal remain unbeaten and end up out on the back of losing one game!

It's a farce beyond belief"
I'd imagine 'the backdoor' is unique nomenclature in the organisation of all sports competition worldwide for starters.

Pope_Benedict (Galway) - Posts: 2338 - 05/08/2019 17:35:26    2221233

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Replying To Pope_Benedict:  "Most worldwide competitions across all sports that operate on the basis of having a volume of non-ko games followed by ko games/playoffs will throw up that anomaly. In fact, it's so commonplace in worldwide sport, that it probably does not even qualify as an anomaly, but it's just another excuse for daft GAA argument about nothing. There is nothing to stop an American football NFL team with an 10-6 win-loss record beating a team with a 16-0 unbeaten record in the superbowl. It could happen, and did as recently as the 2007 season. That is the essence of league format, followed by ko format.

It is what it is. If you lose a ko game, you're out. If you lose a non-ko game, you are not necessarily out. Mayo didn't do anything wrong here. They have not lost a ko championship game this season to date."
Comparing to nfl is interesting. The patriots lost the final in a neutral ground. Because they were the best team in the afc from the league matches they got a bye for the first playoff round and played the next two knock out matches at home. They are given quite a lot of advantages though if they lose one of these matches they are out. The patriots got to the superbowl and then lost.
The challenge I see is that a conference winners (ulster champions in donegals case) apart from Dublin are given no advantages over the team coming through the repechage rounds and they should be. Have mayo play donegal in ballybofey on Sunday.
There is nothing to stop mayo from winning and getting through to the semi, they just have to earn it on the road.

Ulsterchamps_32 (Donegal) - Posts: 273 - 05/08/2019 18:09:15    2221243

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The 3 pundits on Sunday game last night said the super 8s is a success, what world are they living in, we had 2 exciting matches out of 12, Donegal v Kerry and Mayo v Donegal, that was it, all Kerry v Mayo was a farce, most games in group 2 was one sided, if we had the original quarterfinals then we would have been put out of our misery and be better off in our pockets.
If the GAA insist of going down this round robin system then we have to split the championship into 2 grades, scrap the provincial championships, put division 1 and 2 teams in grade 1, this would have 16 teams involved 4 groups of 4, top 2 in each group go into knockout quarter finals, semi then finals, grade 2 run the same as grade 1, 4 groups of 4 teams top 2 make quarter finals, the promotion and relegation would depend on the National Football League standing, both competitions would be equally important, if relegated from div 2 to div 3 then you drop down to grade 2 as well, if you are promoted to div 2 you go into grade 1 championship, it's an added incentive to push for promotion in the League

riverboys (Mayo) - Posts: 1389 - 05/08/2019 18:37:04    2221253

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Replying To legendzxix:  "
Replying To Hawkeye9212:  "Just put in another backdoor format or return to single-elimination.

Quarter-Finals

Round 1

4 Provincial champions and 4 Qualifiers. The 4 winners advance to Round 2A. The 4 losers advance to Round 2B.

Roscommon v Tyrone
Dublin v Cork
Donegal v Meath
Kerry v Mayo

Round 2A

The 4 Round 1 winners enter this round. The winners enter the semi-finals. The losers play the winners of Round 2B in Round 3.

Tyrone v Dublin
Donegal v Kerry

Round 2B

The losers from Round 1 enter this round. The winners play the losers of Round 2A in Round 3. The losers are eliminated.

Roscommon v Cork
Meath v Mayo

Round 3

The losers of Round 2A and winners of Round 2B enter this round. The winners enter the semi-finals with the winners of Round 2A. The losers are eliminated.

Mayo v Tyrone
Donegal v Roscommon

Semi-Finals

Dublin v Mayo
Kerry v Donegal"
With your suggestion, they could just opt for a champions round of the 4 provincial champions and a preliminary quarter-final of the 4 qualifiers. Champions Round winners into the semi-finals. Champions Round losers and Preliminary Quarter-final winners into the quarter-finals.

I'd be in favour of the provincial group stage. Traditional quarter-finals or champions round/double elimination format is optional as deemed by a majority at Congress."
No champions round. The provincial champions should avoid eachother in Round 1 or just have random seeds.

Hawkeye9212 (Donegal) - Posts: 263 - 05/08/2019 19:21:18    2221277

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Replying To Hawkeye9212:  "It works in hurling because there are two provinces with 5 teams each."
And the top 3 teams progress so if you've won at least 1 of your opening 3 games, chances are you've got something to play for in the last match.

ballydalane (Kilkenny) - Posts: 1085 - 05/08/2019 19:25:10    2221279

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Replying To KY4SAM2015:  "I dont think anyone wants to see a Munster or Leinster round robin format in football, its bad enough even the way it is without making us watch more matches in these provinces."
I was in Ennis for the Clare game. A group of Kerry, Cork, Clare and Tipperary would be competitive enough. If the bottom team is facing elimination, it should be giving them a spur to raise standards.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 6261 - 05/08/2019 19:35:31    2221287

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Replying To Ulsterchamps_32:  "Comparing to nfl is interesting. The patriots lost the final in a neutral ground. Because they were the best team in the afc from the league matches they got a bye for the first playoff round and played the next two knock out matches at home. They are given quite a lot of advantages though if they lose one of these matches they are out. The patriots got to the superbowl and then lost.
The challenge I see is that a conference winners (ulster champions in donegals case) apart from Dublin are given no advantages over the team coming through the repechage rounds and they should be. Have mayo play donegal in ballybofey on Sunday.
There is nothing to stop mayo from winning and getting through to the semi, they just have to earn it on the road."
Good post

IamDonegal (Donegal) - Posts: 134 - 05/08/2019 20:36:24    2221319

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Limerick and Waterford?

Hawkeye9212 (Donegal) - Posts: 263 - 05/08/2019 21:30:44    2221337

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If the GAA expand this experiment to a Super 16, they can give provincial winners 3 home games and every other team 1 home game. Quarter-finals finals then in Croke Park. It'll be a mix of the old and the new.

2019 Example:
1. Kerry, Galway, Mayo and Armagh.
2. Donegal, Meath, Clare and Westmeath.
3. Dublin, Cork, Laois and Offaly.
3. Roscommon, Cavan, Tyrone and Kildare.

Phase 1 could have been played on 2019 Qualifier Round 4 weekend.
Phase 2 could could have been played on 2019 Phase 1 weekend.
Phase 3 could have been played on 2019 Phase 2 weekend.
After a 2 week break, the Quarter-finals could have been played on this traditional August Bank Holiday weekend, 2019 Phase 3 weekend.

Example Quarter-finals:
Kerry v Meath
Donegal v Mayo
Dublin v Cavan
Tyrone v Cork

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 6261 - 05/08/2019 22:09:13    2221355

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Seeing as this topic has effectively become about future championship structures I'll give one opinion on this.
It seems the biggest issue facing the GAA now is the impact the inter county competition structures are having on local county club championships.
This is because of the time it takes to run off the league's and then after that the championship.
The starting point for me in any overhaul of the way inter county competitions are run is to move away from having separate league and championship competitions.
By doing this you would make time for a better All Ireland competition and leave more time for club competitions.

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 629 - 05/08/2019 22:53:55    2221373

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The CPA are supposed to be included in the fixture discussions. There has be give and take. Hopefully they can all find a suitable arrangement.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 6261 - 06/08/2019 09:10:52    2221436

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Replying To bdbuddah:  "Seeing as this topic has effectively become about future championship structures I'll give one opinion on this.
It seems the biggest issue facing the GAA now is the impact the inter county competition structures are having on local county club championships.
This is because of the time it takes to run off the league's and then after that the championship.
The starting point for me in any overhaul of the way inter county competitions are run is to move away from having separate league and championship competitions.
By doing this you would make time for a better All Ireland competition and leave more time for club competitions."
Is it not inevitable that club games will end up being played without their county players during the summer? If their county players for whatever reason are available then well and good. But counties putting their club games with the vast majority of players compared to the county squad on hold all summer and club players not being able to plan for holidays, weddings etc, seems mad. The top clubs in the county probably wouldn't like it as they have most county players but this way county players can't get injured in club games and club players see, they've a max of x number of games, can plan for this summer.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 5499 - 06/08/2019 11:36:29    2221516

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I have absolutely no time for the super 8's. its ruining football at this stage of the summer and creating a lull in competitiveness after the provincials have finished. imagine tyrone/ dublin played Sunday and I actually slept through it, admittedly I was a bit hungover but not the point!!!!!!
I actually couldn't even tell you the scores in any of the games apart from mayo/ donegal. Donegal can feel somewhat aggrieved too at being beaten by a team that has already been beaten twice in the championship!!! fair play to mayo but i just don't like the thoughts of that in ''championship football''. a tiered championship is been spoken about lately and I'm not mad on that idea either. but if it does come in then the sam maguire' competition should definitely go 100% knockout. when you're beat you're beat.

theweanling (Cavan) - Posts: 390 - 06/08/2019 11:57:39    2221524

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County Leagues should be played out during the summer. It just takes a bit of fixture structure within a county.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 6261 - 06/08/2019 12:03:40    2221528

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here's an idea !

The provincial championships are played on a knockout basis. When you're beat you're beat !

Let that county get on with the club fixtures.

The four provincial winners go into All Ireland semi finals !

It's a radical format and maybe if we go back to how it used to be we would see more emphasis on the provincial championships.

It would do away with fixture congestion and let the clubs get on with their fixtures, plus introduce the possibility of a shock result.

Play the national league as an actual league - who ever is on top is the winner. I don't know of any other sport where the team who finishes on top can actually lose the league and come away with nothing !!!

StirringIt (Cavan) - Posts: 374 - 06/08/2019 12:23:56    2221549

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