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Official Limerick Senior Hurling 2019

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Replying To PatOLogical:  "Game over Kilkenny won the match.
Am not talking from "sour grapes" point of view BUT

There is an element of the game becoming not just "on the edge" but completely beyond the bounds of safety.

Did not see the the cause of injury to Declan Hannon.
Wonder if it could be isolated and put on YouTube for further freebies,debate. May be perfectly innocent but may prevent future injuries to all players in all codes.

Maybe Croke Park needs to be awoken from its slumber..
How about it?"
Sorry. * "freebies" word should be " review".

PatOLogical (Limerick) - Posts: 1055 - 28/07/2019 13:39:25    2217536

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What happened Declan Hannon last night? Watched the game back but couldn't see any belt he got that had medics in and out to him throughout the half and lads at half time thinking he was confused. He did look very sluggish though, but was it because he wasn't right at all from the start or what?
Either way, he should have been taken off well before half time.

LowerTheBlade (Limerick) - Posts: 62 - 28/07/2019 14:45:23    2217570

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*concussed not confused

LowerTheBlade (Limerick) - Posts: 62 - 28/07/2019 14:46:37    2217572

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Replying To flyinghigh:  "These boys don't owe any of us anything . But for the life of me I will never understand the column in the leader by our back page man this week. .Was he employed by Cody? My reservation s bout result were fuelled immediately on reading it.It was an insult to kk integrity to say we would beat them by 10 or 12 points. And then repeatedly state how we couldn't lose..if Cody needed ammunition it fell into his lap..Amazing stuff from someone who normally stays on on low key track.."
Thought that column was shocking also. Made Kilkenny sound like they were a woeful team. Beat them my more than 10 points? Ridiculous statement. That stuff is alright on a forum like this but from an experienced columnist on the leader, he should have known better. His opinion is gone down the tubes as far as I'm concerned.

Mads (Limerick) - Posts: 103 - 28/07/2019 14:52:43    2217579

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Replying To Sean Wall:  "First off a big thanks to all involved it's been a great 18 months or so following this panel of players. When the dust settles I'm sure there will be some regrets from all involved. Agree with previous poster sideline too slow making changes when obvious some players were struggling, not the players fault they've been immense for limerick but last night wasnt their night and it's why we have a panel. Wides - well at least 4 players will scratch their heads and wonder how they missed chances, again it happens. Ref/sideline official/umpires - 65 all day long and not good enough at this level that it was missed. Lastly re Seamus Flanagan my view is that a 2018 version of Seamus Flanagan starts all day long, the 2019 version doesn't and that's largely up to the player himself as to which version we get in 2020."
Agree with your view Sean Wall our forwards seemed to rush a few chances particularly early on when they were 1 on 1 and could have taken another step just to steddy up and get their balance.I thought our subs contributed a lot but a fully fit Flanagan on last year's form as you say would have added so much more to our forwards
Flanagan in my opinion was the key man in the forwards last year with his movement and runs and Gillane in particular misses him but this isn't John Kielys fault it's up to Flanagan himself to get ready for next year
The sideline 65 incident at the end was unforgivable from the linesman and the ref and Cillian Buckley should have seen red for the elbow leading into Nash -KK were the better team yesterday but in a 1 point game these decisions have a huge bearing on the final outcome. As most poster's have said here we should all thank this team for the last 18 months (March 2018 the big thing for Limerick was getting out of 1B) but this team is good enough and young enough to add another couple of AI at least but each year is going to take a massive effort and come January 1st 2020 we all go back to the same starting point but yesterday's result will hopefully be the fuel to win more AI. A manager as great as Cody has had these days a few times but he took it on the chin sucked it up and learnt-from listening to Kielys post match interview he was saying the right things and moving on

updwell (Limerick) - Posts: 350 - 28/07/2019 14:57:27    2217583

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First of all I would like to thank the Limerick squad and all the backroom teams for a great twelve months of sport. Looking forward to next year and hopefully a return to croagh pairc.
Been to a lot of matches over the years and enjoyed a lot of tuff matches particularly v Clare and tipp but I've never seen the like of the niggling , use of the hurl and pulling and dragging against the Limerick players OFF the ball in those first 20 mins in particular.in my opinion it was nothing short of thuggery.
Some might say it was intensity I totally disagree. There was nothing sportsmanlike about it.

Tipp showed KK the way to play Limerick , the intense in your face tackling down the middle when Limerick try to play the short passing game, tipp had success against us with that, ok after twenty mins in the Munster final tipp lost that intensity and Limerick were able to drive on.
It looks great when it works but so costly when it breaks down. Sometimes the long ball has to be an option but really we only had one target for that which was Gillane and it's just too much to ask of one man over 70 minutes.
Mulcahey had to come out almost middle of the field to try and win his own ball , this shouldn't be the case in my opinion.
Certainly we had a nightmare start , four week break ?? I honestly don't think so we have started a bit slow in other games but we done well to fight back but it does take its toll.
Losing Hannon didn't help. We have to be honest it does boil down to KK converted their chances and on the day we missed a huge amount of convertible points.
Yes the 65 at the end was a total disgrace had we equalised I felt we could well have pushed on and won it but we will never know , we had the chances to win it in normal time.
I don't like to kick a man when he's down but I felt Kiely was way to slow to make the changes
Hegarty in particular was dead on his feet a good ten mins before he was replaced.
Well done to Dowling when he came on he really is a huge asset to have in a squad.
We have a fantastic team and as I said I would be hugely confident going forward next year

Would love to see Wexford go on and win the all Ireland even though I feel tipp might cope better v KK in a final but would be nice to see Wexford do it . It is a very cruel world when a Limerick man supports any team coached by Davy Fits haha. But dear lord anybody but KK. Sour grapes ? Maybe.

jimbob50 (Limerick) - Posts: 64 - 28/07/2019 15:19:58    2217600

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Replying To jimbob50:  "First of all I would like to thank the Limerick squad and all the backroom teams for a great twelve months of sport. Looking forward to next year and hopefully a return to croagh pairc.
Been to a lot of matches over the years and enjoyed a lot of tuff matches particularly v Clare and tipp but I've never seen the like of the niggling , use of the hurl and pulling and dragging against the Limerick players OFF the ball in those first 20 mins in particular.in my opinion it was nothing short of thuggery.
Some might say it was intensity I totally disagree. There was nothing sportsmanlike about it.

Tipp showed KK the way to play Limerick , the intense in your face tackling down the middle when Limerick try to play the short passing game, tipp had success against us with that, ok after twenty mins in the Munster final tipp lost that intensity and Limerick were able to drive on.
It looks great when it works but so costly when it breaks down. Sometimes the long ball has to be an option but really we only had one target for that which was Gillane and it's just too much to ask of one man over 70 minutes.
Mulcahey had to come out almost middle of the field to try and win his own ball , this shouldn't be the case in my opinion.
Certainly we had a nightmare start , four week break ?? I honestly don't think so we have started a bit slow in other games but we done well to fight back but it does take its toll.
Losing Hannon didn't help. We have to be honest it does boil down to KK converted their chances and on the day we missed a huge amount of convertible points.
Yes the 65 at the end was a total disgrace had we equalised I felt we could well have pushed on and won it but we will never know , we had the chances to win it in normal time.
I don't like to kick a man when he's down but I felt Kiely was way to slow to make the changes
Hegarty in particular was dead on his feet a good ten mins before he was replaced.
Well done to Dowling when he came on he really is a huge asset to have in a squad.
We have a fantastic team and as I said I would be hugely confident going forward next year

Would love to see Wexford go on and win the all Ireland even though I feel tipp might cope better v KK in a final but would be nice to see Wexford do it . It is a very cruel world when a Limerick man supports any team coached by Davy Fits haha. But dear lord anybody but KK. Sour grapes ? Maybe."
Yesterday was a tough watch - certainly one of our worst performances for the past two years. We never got our touch or passing game to the levels we'd expect. And our shooting was very poor in both halves. We gave it everything and every player gave their best. To say we only lost by one point having not played very well is a testament to the work rate and standards this team holds themselves to.

A few key things I'd note:

1. Our half forward line was beaten comprehensively and when that happens we struggle hugely. We should have had changes here much sooner. I did feel that in many games they looked tired, which is understandable, so hopefully they get a nice break.
2. Byrnes struggled hugely on Walter Walsh. He needs to be a much tighter marker, it consistently costs us.
3. Colin Fennelly won his battle vs Mike Casey and that was a huge plus for Kilkenny
4. Gillane has had too much to do in the FF line all year. Mulcahy and P Casey have had great games but overall they are not contributing enough and Gillane is asked to do too much. I would hope that P Ryan, Dowling or Flanagan can be given a chance there next year.
5. We should have changed things much earlier. We were slow to make changes this year, vs Cork in Munster and KK yesterday, and it costs us.
6. Our long range frees are a problem. I'd be inclined to think we should be accommodating Dowling in some way for his brilliance with frees. Horgan and Reid's excellence for their teams is a huge plus point.

We should have had a 65 but honestly I don't feel too hard done by. The players will and can certainly feel that way after all their hard work, but we played poorly and Kilkenny fully deserved their win.

Lastly a huge thanks to John Kiely and all of the backroom staff and players. A year where we won the league and the Munster championship plus got to the All Ireland semi final is a good year. I'm proud of how these players conducted and applied themselves this year.

Our fans were magnificent. Dublin was a sea of green yesterday. We can be proud of how we travelled to support this team this year.

One final note on our minors - beaten comprehensively yesterday but there are some lovely players there. Cathal O'Neill, in particular, looks a serious prospect.

We'll be back again next year better than ever! Luimneach Abu!

limerick_lass (Limerick) - Posts: 27 - 28/07/2019 17:10:34    2217679

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Munster and Leinster champions in both minor and senior grade hurling all knocked out before the final. I think it's time to debate the provincial systems and where best to move hurling on....

daveboy (Limerick) - Posts: 424 - 28/07/2019 17:50:10    2217723

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Replying To daveboy:  "Munster and Leinster champions in both minor and senior grade hurling all knocked out before the final. I think it's time to debate the provincial systems and where best to move hurling on...."
I dont think its why we lost but i do think it should change to all 8 qualifiers playing at the same time.

Prov winners v mcdonagh teams
And 2nd v 3rd

Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 261 - 28/07/2019 18:47:42    2217772

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Replying To Breezy:  "I dont think its why we lost but i do think it should change to all 8 qualifiers playing at the same time.

Prov winners v mcdonagh teams
And 2nd v 3rd"
Not saying it's the reason we lost at all just it seems the teams coming through the quarter finals do seem to gain an advantage over provincial winners with regards to momentum and sharpness. Winning your provincial title should not put you at a disadvantage. A lot of comment all year saying provincial win is something to avoid . 2 groups of 6 teams. However it's managed. Teams topping the group's play the AI final. Bottom 2 teams relegated with promotion from division 2 for teams winning that.

The debate must start.

daveboy (Limerick) - Posts: 424 - 28/07/2019 19:00:16    2217778

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Replying To updwell:  "Agree with your view Sean Wall our forwards seemed to rush a few chances particularly early on when they were 1 on 1 and could have taken another step just to steddy up and get their balance.I thought our subs contributed a lot but a fully fit Flanagan on last year's form as you say would have added so much more to our forwards
Flanagan in my opinion was the key man in the forwards last year with his movement and runs and Gillane in particular misses him but this isn't John Kielys fault it's up to Flanagan himself to get ready for next year
The sideline 65 incident at the end was unforgivable from the linesman and the ref and Cillian Buckley should have seen red for the elbow leading into Nash -KK were the better team yesterday but in a 1 point game these decisions have a huge bearing on the final outcome. As most poster's have said here we should all thank this team for the last 18 months (March 2018 the big thing for Limerick was getting out of 1B) but this team is good enough and young enough to add another couple of AI at least but each year is going to take a massive effort and come January 1st 2020 we all go back to the same starting point but yesterday's result will hopefully be the fuel to win more AI. A manager as great as Cody has had these days a few times but he took it on the chin sucked it up and learnt-from listening to Kielys post match interview he was saying the right things and moving on"
Why isn't Flanagan starting this year?. Was he injured or just couldn't regain his form?.
Massive loss. When he's on form, he's a 2 man marking job.

Dec82 (Clare) - Posts: 178 - 28/07/2019 21:19:32    2217862

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Replying To Dec82:  "Why isn't Flanagan starting this year?. Was he injured or just couldn't regain his form?.
Massive loss. When he's on form, he's a 2 man marking job."
One thing we knew for sure on Saturday was Kilkenny were going to try to outmuscle us Dec, Really cannot understand why we didn't start Flanagan in that scenario. Biggest mistake of all though was introducing subs. We waited far too long. None of the other three semi finals Na lists had subs of our quality yet they all started emptying the bench far earlier than we did. Now that Tipp are in the final I really can't help thinking how we threw it all away so needlessly

welpastit (Limerick) - Posts: 689 - 28/07/2019 22:47:57    2217914

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Replying To Dec82:  "Why isn't Flanagan starting this year?. Was he injured or just couldn't regain his form?.
Massive loss. When he's on form, he's a 2 man marking job."
Flanagan s form just wasn't good enough, he started the first league match v Wexford and looked very good but got sent off along with his marker Liam Ryan and was suspended for the next match. He played the league match v Laois scored a great goal v Dublin but was a sub again for the league final. He got an injury after coming on against Cork in the championship and only got a start v Tipp in Thurles where he beat Barry to every ball but fumbled or misplaced the balls and was taken off at half-time. I agree he does the work of 2 men when on form and his hard running from ff really stresses a full back and creates space and gaps for Gillane and Mulcahy while also helping the half forward line. I'd prefer him in the team as I think he has huge potential but he needs to get himself right for next January and be good to go from the start.

updwell (Limerick) - Posts: 350 - 28/07/2019 23:28:10    2217930

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Replying To Dec82:  "Why isn't Flanagan starting this year?. Was he injured or just couldn't regain his form?.
Massive loss. When he's on form, he's a 2 man marking job."
I was certainly one for adding Flanagan to that full forward line for his sheer physically and work rate earlier in the season. I felt he would give balance to that full forward line. However when Kiely did start him against Tipp in that thurles match his first touch was very poor. Posters on here said he picked up a hand injury. I'm assuming the lad never regained that 2018 form we all crave in training either. He obviously fell down the pecking order of the subs too. Maybe it's things like being up in Dublin during the year that don't help or else he just could never regain form from injuries he picked up earlier in the year.
Very hard to believe it now but Callinan struggled at times to nail a spot consistently early on in his career. I just hope our seamas manages to get back to what we all know he's capable of.

Mads (Limerick) - Posts: 103 - 28/07/2019 23:54:14    2217932

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Want to thank the players and mgmt for the year, 2 trophies is nothing to overlook and in any other year we'd be delighted. I was always afraid that KK were gonna do what they do and that's turn it into a dog-fight and you have to admire them for that. I would probably only swap 4 or 5 of their players for ours, yet they still give total effort every day they are out. Once we got over our shaky quarter, we more than matched them but ya can't give them a lead. I did feel that we might have been better off leaving Hayes on TJ for the second half, he kept winning important ball. Also thought playing one inside when we had a strong breeze was not ideal but if thats their system, then they have to play it. It's worked most of the time for them. I definitely would not be criticising any of the players/mgmt involved and hope now they stick together for next year. Think its important the group stays together now.

ImokillyMan (Cork) - Posts: 214 - 29/07/2019 08:11:19    2217964

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Replying To daveboy:  "Not saying it's the reason we lost at all just it seems the teams coming through the quarter finals do seem to gain an advantage over provincial winners with regards to momentum and sharpness. Winning your provincial title should not put you at a disadvantage. A lot of comment all year saying provincial win is something to avoid . 2 groups of 6 teams. However it's managed. Teams topping the group's play the AI final. Bottom 2 teams relegated with promotion from division 2 for teams winning that.

The debate must start."
Personally I still think there's a place for provential finals. Look at the gaelic grounds packed to capacity and all the celebrations in wexford.
Yes the gap seems to be a killer but really only for Munster teams which I can't fathom. Kilkenny never had trouble getting up to the pace after winning loads of Leinster titles but can even extend that further to Galway doing fine last year in the semi and Wexford didn't exactly have a sluggish start yesterday either.
But after seeing the sunday game highlights again yesterday whatever about Kilkenny tackling like mad I felt our first touch also let us down even though I know Kiely wasn't giving it as an excuse. He just said it took us a while to settle. Is it the gap or Kilkenny being so good. Probably a combination.
Despite the horrible wides, once we got to grips we completely outscored them which they showed clearly last night. That's the galling thing.

Mads (Limerick) - Posts: 103 - 29/07/2019 09:25:13    2217982

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Replying To welpastit:  "One thing we knew for sure on Saturday was Kilkenny were going to try to outmuscle us Dec, Really cannot understand why we didn't start Flanagan in that scenario. Biggest mistake of all though was introducing subs. We waited far too long. None of the other three semi finals Na lists had subs of our quality yet they all started emptying the bench far earlier than we did. Now that Tipp are in the final I really can't help thinking how we threw it all away so needlessly"
Yep at least 2 subs could have come in at least a full 10 mins earlier which is a lot of time in hurling. Reidy got on a lot of ball when he came on. Was a breathe of fresh air. Might have been able to get Gillane back into the game had he been given more time. We all know what Dowling did. Do you think management are too afraid we'd lose our shape or something?

Mads (Limerick) - Posts: 103 - 29/07/2019 09:30:46    2217985

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Replying To daveboy:  "Not saying it's the reason we lost at all just it seems the teams coming through the quarter finals do seem to gain an advantage over provincial winners with regards to momentum and sharpness. Winning your provincial title should not put you at a disadvantage. A lot of comment all year saying provincial win is something to avoid . 2 groups of 6 teams. However it's managed. Teams topping the group's play the AI final. Bottom 2 teams relegated with promotion from division 2 for teams winning that.

The debate must start."
All teams need to have the same structure and fixture schedule. The round robin in both provinces also needs the same format and fixture schedule to avoid teams playing 3 weeks in a row.
The All Ireland series could be as follows:
Munster Champions play Q/F against the McDonagh Cup Winners ( rotate every 2nd year ).
Leinster Champions play Q/F against the McDonagh Cup Losers ( rotate every 2nd year ).
Beaten Leinster Finalist plays Q/F against 3rd team in Munster.
Beaten Munster Finilast plays Q/F against 3rd team in Leinster.

Provincial champions if they progress can be kept apart at semi final stage.

Clubgaa (Limerick) - Posts: 827 - 29/07/2019 10:33:46    2218024

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I'm still gutted after Saturday but we were simply beaten by the better team on the day. Now I haven't watched the 2 games back yet. I think myself it was lost after the 1st 20 minutes you can't give Kilkenny that head start and win, I think it was 1-7 to to 2 points at that stage. It took our lads too long to get up to the intensity and speed of the game. The wides too were a killer we had 15 and I'm not sure what had Kilkenny 7 or 8? But you really have to praise our lads heart and fight back to get it to a 1 point game.I thought our half forward line under-performed but Kyle Hayes had a big job of trying to help out the half back line and then he was trying to get the forward line working too I think might have had a bearing on his game. I knew our full back line would have being targeted before the game but not in the way it was,Mullen, Fennelly and Hogan had the better of our lads in the 1st half but in fairness our lads got to grips with them the 2nd half. I thought Byrnes and Morrissey did well and Barry Nash when he came on. William O'Donaghue did well but Cian Lynch was well marshalled out the field and Kilkenny didn't give him an inch all game. Aaron Gillane was our best player again he had the beatings of his man, but in the 2nd half he was left isolated on his own in full forward line and Kilkenny seemed to always have 2 back to defend him, I thought Greame Mulcahy and Peter Casey played out the field too much and 1 should have stayed in with Gillane. On our game play I thought Kilkenny were ready for our short passing game and hounded us out the field and we coughed up possession cheaply at times, I always feel during this season our lads take an extra pass when it's not needed, I also thought on Saturday we played too much up the sidelines from puck outs and and got caught in possession or lost the ball out for a side line but in fairness what was Nickie to do our half forward line wasn't functioning. Now I will finish with us on a positive from the game what about Shane Dowlings goal the best piece of skill for a goal I have ever seen in Croke Park and I thought he should have got more praise from the Sunday game for it, if Dj Carey or Henry Shefflin did that a few years ago it would have got alot more air time.

With Kilkenny I thought their half back line and mid field set their foundations for the win, the way they hassled and harried our lads out the field and the supply of ball they gave their full forward line it was hard to defend it. Tj Reid played a good game too and we found it hard to defend him at times. Mullen is another fantastic young hurler off their conveyor belt he got some great scores.

On the minor game the goal at the start I think killed our lads mentally, I think the loss of Michael Keane during the year showed Saturday and Dairmuid Hegarty was a loss too. But the big reason for the loss was the 4 week break after Kilkenny playing a round robin with Galway and Clare were better prepared. Our lads were playing alot better during the Munster championship and the elephant in the room for the GAA (as Tom Ryan would put it) after all 4 provincial winners at minor and senior losing their semi-finals how do make winning your provincial final not a disadvantage.

DUALSUPPORT (Limerick) - Posts: 520 - 29/07/2019 11:29:21    2218067

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As the Kris Kristofferson song goes I woke up on Sunday morning wondering...…. was it a dream or did we really lose!! I cannot begin to imagine how the players and management team feel? Another poster said this is not the time to do a microanalysis on it bit I disagree. It's now fresh in the mind so here's is my penny's worth.

Kilkenny Explosive Start.
KK had their home work done. They were going to stop Limericks big names. Hannon, Lynch & Hegarty. And they did. I have no idea what happened Hannon's injury. Did any one see it? Was it malicious? Anyway the poor guy was all over the place and KK won ALL the battles in the middle third, nullifying our big players. You can be 100% sure that was Cody's plan.

Mindset.
Kilkenny came out all guns blazing and before we knew it were 9 points up. We can talk about the four weeks but that couldn't be a physical reason. Maybe mentally (which I suspect) it was too long a gap for this group to cope with. It has been said for years that limerick often beat themselves - mentally. So I'm going to ask the question -was the loss of Caroline Currid the problem? The favourites tag certainly didn't suit us on three different occasions this year. Like most teams (outside the big three) we thrive with our backs to the wall?? One thing is for sure. Limerick do need a good psychologist (or performance coach if you prefer).

Tactics
We did debate earlier if Seamie Flanagan should start. Maybe yes (with the benefit of hindsight of course). Look at the physicality of the KK full forward line compared to ours. Mul worked like a dog as usual but P Casey was pretty much out of the game. We seemed to send most of the puckouts on Hegarty, who wasn't winning them, and let Casey/Mul pick up the breaking ball. However, KK dominated our puckouts. What happened to Nicky finding a loose man. Which was available, but not used, a few times.
On the KK puck puts we couldn't handle Walter and TJ. I must say TJ was immense. He's everything you would want. I know Flanagan's form hasn't been great but due to injury and being sent off he didn't get much game time but I think I would have introduced him. Early in the second half

Substitutions
Declan Hannon appeared punch drunk. Nash was superb after coming on. Very difficult task for him. Especially after only playing about 10min of Championship hurling in the past two years!!
I thought Hego and Tom Morrissey should have been replaced earlier. Both were out of the game. Dowling was his usual super sub and Reidy was pretty sharp too. He panicked a bit with the goal opportunity as he found himself in unfamiliar territory. Possibly Flanagan could have come in also a bit earlier.

Anyway. Plenty to work on for next season. I do think we will see a few new faces in the half back and half forward lines though. Thanks to the players and management for their amazing commitment and looking forward to 2020 already

Seeking_silver (Limerick) - Posts: 179 - 29/07/2019 11:30:13    2218068

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