Donegal Forum

Can Kerry Stop The Dubs?

(Oldest Posts First)

Well i suppose it was written in the stars for the Kingdom to be the side who get the ultimate crack at stopping 5 in a row and preserving their own piece of history in terms of being joint on 4 in a row in modern times.

I believe they will need a day of days but did the Kingdom not take a national league title off them afew years ago when the Dublins were on for making history of back to back doubles? They may also have brought to an end a sequence of unbroken Dublin wins in competitive games, and its only early this year they beat them in the League.

Kerry wont get away with a smash and grab like 2014, they will need to come out and play their own football on the day but i believe they are the best equipped side in the country to do that, If they can get an inside forward line of Walsh, Geaney and Clifford enough ball to rattle Dublin early- who knows what the unrelenting pressure and talk of the Drive for 5 could do to Dublin on the day. Worth remembering- they have never ran away from anyone in a Final they way they tend to do in the prior rounds.

I can see it being a close one.

ManusFromHeaven (Donegal) - Posts: 205 - 12/08/2019 14:36:56    2224668

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Dublin will hit 2-25. Can Kerry hit more?

TheRock2121 (Donegal) - Posts: 377 - 12/08/2019 16:01:20    2224728

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I just can't see Kerry winning, it scares me to think how much the Dublin forwards will score against the Kerry defence. Cathal McShane nearly beat them on his own and Dublin have at least 4 forwards of that calibre. Paul Murphy is a good player but the worst sweeper I have ever seen. Maybe Kerry can come up with some sort of defensive structure but I dont think it will be this year. I really hope I am wrong as gaelic football could do with Dublin getting beat.

Green_Gold (Donegal) - Posts: 1556 - 12/08/2019 18:16:19    2224816

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Yes, Kerry can stop them.

For all the hype about Dublin, they beat a tired looking Mayo side by 6 scores, which is mostly down to Con O'Callaghan's powerhouse performance. Kerry will need somebody to mark him, ideally somebody powerful, they might need to look outside the current squad and a bigger sweeper than Murphy as backup.

While Kerry's defense is considered a little suspect, they have the midfield and attack to keep Dublin a little bit guarded down the other end. Dublin have class players in every position, but no team is invincible.
They will need to score goals, and also need to not concede goals down the other end.

I would have liked Mayo to go ultra defensive for the first 15 minutes of the 2nd half with the simple objective of not conceding any goals, they expand again. But Dublin got their goal and the platform that comes with that.

Kerry can do it, but they need a lot of stuff to go their way.

Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 502 - 12/08/2019 18:16:25    2224817

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Kerry have to get to a level they've never gone to. They will at some point but is it too early this year.

Walshe made a huge difference in the second half and gave a great focal point to the attack. Geaney and Clifford played off him really well and scored loads of great points. As long as he's fit enough I reckon they should start him. Probably try to engineer O'Brien on McCaffrey and make him defend.

Jack Barry has done well on fenton so start him to track Fenton again until he's knackered and get someone else to track him then. Try to isolate moran on McCauley for kick outs. Put O'Sullivan on mannion man on man. Put Morley on con and maybe play a covering defender in front of him, probably obeaglach. Bit like McFadden against mcshane earlier in the year.
Murphy on Scully, white on Howard, Foley if not dropped on rock. Crowley on Kilkenny. The two Spillane's would be dropped.

Dublin are plenty systematic and are well able to defend with 15 men. They probably will be quite cautious at the start and maybe look to grind Kerry down. I don't think Dublin are altogether as good as they are made out but they are much stronger round the middle than Kerry and that should ultimately win it for them. Kerry though have too much good forwards to be given no chance. If they all clicked they could hit a cricket score.

Ulsterchamps_32 (Donegal) - Posts: 217 - 12/08/2019 20:19:21    2224876

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Kerry will need 3 or even 4 goals to do it I reckon. They have the firepower to do it to any team on their day. Dublin have started sluggishly in a few of the games I've seen them in this year. Meath, Cork and Mayo for example. If Kerry can take advantage and build up a sizable lead, say of 7 or 8 points it could be interesting. That said, if Dublin start the game like they did the second half against Mayo, things could go pear shaped very quickly for the Kingdom.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 6521 - 13/08/2019 08:56:17    2225010

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Cannot see it myself.

I feel Kerry and Donegal are a year away yet. Yes I say Donegal. I felt injuries caught us and we had one really bad day.

I feel Kerry will get destroyed at the back against what can only be described as a machine.

People are despondent saying Dublin will win 8 or 10 on the trot , that won't happen but they will win the 5.

Kerry have a poor defense. Tyrone left 2 up and at times 1. It was like us under Rory

Dublin will score 2-20 in my opinion or 3-15.

Dublin by a comfortable 9-12

IamDonegal (Donegal) - Posts: 134 - 14/08/2019 00:41:51    2225363

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Replying To Lockjaw:  "Kerry will need 3 or even 4 goals to do it I reckon. They have the firepower to do it to any team on their day. Dublin have started sluggishly in a few of the games I've seen them in this year. Meath, Cork and Mayo for example. If Kerry can take advantage and build up a sizable lead, say of 7 or 8 points it could be interesting. That said, if Dublin start the game like they did the second half against Mayo, things could go pear shaped very quickly for the Kingdom."
Since Jim McGuinness left Donegal at the end of 2014, there has been no manager with the meticulous game management approach required to really upset Dublin.

Perhaps the key to beating Dublin, it to prevent them from getting their now traditional blitz at the start of the 2nd half.
A re-energized Dublin after half time are clearly very effective, so perhaps if the opposition setup ultra defensive from the 35th to 45th minutes, and just frustrate Dublin's attack for this period, it might take the sting out of them.

Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 502 - 14/08/2019 09:16:29    2225411

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Replying To Commodore:  "Since Jim McGuinness left Donegal at the end of 2014, there has been no manager with the meticulous game management approach required to really upset Dublin.

Perhaps the key to beating Dublin, it to prevent them from getting their now traditional blitz at the start of the 2nd half.
A re-energized Dublin after half time are clearly very effective, so perhaps if the opposition setup ultra defensive from the 35th to 45th minutes, and just frustrate Dublin's attack for this period, it might take the sting out of them."
Yeah I'd agree with you there. I think Kerry will need to be ahead at half time by a few points and then withstand that early second half blitz. If Dublin fail to reel them in during that spell then you never know, it could spread a bit of panic and maybe Kerry could hit them on the counter. That would require an awful lot of things to go right for Kerryt hough and it's very hard to see it happening.

What all neutrals definitely won't want to see is Dublin racing into an early lead. If that's the case you'll find a lot of people switching the channel.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 6521 - 14/08/2019 10:54:52    2225444

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Replying To Commodore:  "Since Jim McGuinness left Donegal at the end of 2014, there has been no manager with the meticulous game management approach required to really upset Dublin.

Perhaps the key to beating Dublin, it to prevent them from getting their now traditional blitz at the start of the 2nd half.
A re-energized Dublin after half time are clearly very effective, so perhaps if the opposition setup ultra defensive from the 35th to 45th minutes, and just frustrate Dublin's attack for this period, it might take the sting out of them."
The perceived wisdom is that you need to go 'toe to toe' with Dublin to have any chance of beating them like Mayo did from 2013-2017. However I am not entirely sure that is true. The last team to beat them was Donegal under Jim with the blanket defence. Surely a better strategy would be to go all out defensive and try to frustrate the hell out of them. I doubt if Kerry have the players for that type of defensive work so probably not an option for them.

Green_Gold (Donegal) - Posts: 1556 - 14/08/2019 12:12:13    2225486

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Replying To Green_Gold:  "The perceived wisdom is that you need to go 'toe to toe' with Dublin to have any chance of beating them like Mayo did from 2013-2017. However I am not entirely sure that is true. The last team to beat them was Donegal under Jim with the blanket defence. Surely a better strategy would be to go all out defensive and try to frustrate the hell out of them. I doubt if Kerry have the players for that type of defensive work so probably not an option for them."
I don't think one system (Defensive or Attacking) is enough to beat Dublin at the moment, I think a combination game, where you go toe to toe for long periods, and go ultra defensive for certain periods to frustrate them when they attempt to kill the game off, like in the opening 10 minutes of the 2nd half.

Dublin beat Mayo by 6 scores, most of which occurred in the opening 10 minutes of the 2nd half.

Kerry can do it, It just remains to be seen if their management team are cute enough to figure it out. Dublin keep changing, keep evolving, they have great players in every position. To beat them will require a management team to tackle both tactically and psychologically.

Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 502 - 25/08/2019 18:56:45    2229216

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Can Kerry win? Yes. Will they? Unlikely but they are probably the best placed team in the country. Simply because they got forwards who can get above the twenty point mark which any team who have any ambitious of beating Dublin must achieve. The worry for Kerry is keeping Dublin restricted at the other end but I do think Dublin have shown some chinks in their armoury this year. Cork showed they can be got at and Mayo played a great first half before poor game management and lack of forwards let them down. Dublin are excellent at regrouping at half time and Kerry really need to plan for this. If they have a secret trump card to play tactically that might be the time to play it. Looking forward to both games despite a real lack of excitement in the build up for the second year in a row. The minor game should be decent too. I have being very impressed with Cork and have them as favourites. I highlighted Galway as a team to watch in this years minor championship after seeing them defeated by Meath in a challenge. But they have surprised me a little in getting this far.

panamasam (Australia) - Posts: 2118 - 30/08/2019 22:42:39    2230859

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Good interview with Eamon McGee and Jim McGuinness in the Star today. Jim saying that kickout and game management strategies are the key. Dublin have the conditioning and fitness to play a high intensity game for 70 plus minutes and that's the style they want to play. But if Kerry can turn it around and dictate the terms by holding on to possession for minutes at a time then that obviously frustrates Dublin and crucially reduces the time Dublin have available to do damage on the score board.

If Kerry can be ultra-economical with their chances, pilfer a couple of goals and stay switched on mentally then they have a chance.

However, in all likelihood Dublin will eventually figure out whatever game plans Kerry come up with. They're simply just too strong I think at this point in time for anything to derail them.

I can see Kerry making a good game of it, but Dublin doing their usual trick and tacking on points in the closing stages to put the knife in Kerry's heart.


Dublin 2-19 - 1-16.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 6521 - 31/08/2019 14:01:45    2230983

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What a game and you have to wonder will Kerry get a better opportunity especially after having the man advantage for so long (not that you would know). Kerry left an awful lot of scores behind them but did show Dublin are not invincible. To beat them first and foremost you must have believe, quality forwards, a decent kickout strategy and get ur match ups right. Plus you need bench options to change it up if needed. I thought Killian Spillane was superb off the bench. He was a stalwart of the Kerry minor side that beat Donegal in 2014. Kinda went quiet for a while but was excellent against Donegal this year. From a Donegal perspective we can be encouraged as I genuinely believe that both Donegal and Kerry have the forward power to potentially challenge this fantastic Dublin side.

panamasam (Australia) - Posts: 2118 - 01/09/2019 18:13:42    2231367

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Decent prediction in original post. Kerry done everything yesterday except win the All Ireland.

They had 5 goal chances and took 1 and kicked a large number of wides.

On a day that the kerry defence done mighty work on the Dublin forward line, the Kerry forward line misfired. Geaney in particular cannot return 0 from 2 goal chances of that magnitude. Clifford also had an off day but can be cut a little more slack given his age and limited experience.

Dublin will not be as poor again, wont be as rattled again and will push on and win the replay comfortably id suggest.

ManusFromHeaven (Donegal) - Posts: 205 - 02/09/2019 10:19:05    2231743

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Well from our own POV I think yesterday is hugely encouraging. We went toe-to-toe with Kerry and they showed Dublin are very much beatable. All the doom and gloom around championship, I didn't buy into it. There are at least 3 teams in my opinion that can challenge the Dubs going forward.

Dublin won't be as poor the next day but I think Kerry have plenty room for improvement as well.

JoeSoap (Donegal) - Posts: 942 - 02/09/2019 12:44:47    2231844

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There it is, gallant stuff from Kerry particularly in the first half but they never recovered from that abomination of a re-start to the 2nd half and when Dublin got 4 clear they were never gonna let it slip like the lead they let slip the first day.

Kerry will rightly have regrets over the Stephen O'Brien/Con O'Callaghan incident in the first half when a goal is on, a black card is a strong possibility, but all they got from it was a free and a yellow for O'Callaghan.

I think he absolutely has to be black carded- it is not a reasonable and legit attempt to win he ball, rather his mission is to foul first and make it looks as much as possible as a 'forwards tackle' or somehow make it look genuine because he knows exactly the territory he is in (black card)

If you look at some of the absolute nonsense black cards this summer ( Niall O'Donnell vs Kerry) there is no way that what O'Callaghan done to prevent a goal in an All Ireland final which is neck and neck at that time- deserves only a yellow.

Having said all that, by my count across both games Kerry made as many as 8 clear goal chances (5 first game, 3 on Saturday) and only took 1.

They made a hero of Cluxton across the 2 games when he should have been sore from picking it out of the net.

ManusFromHeaven (Donegal) - Posts: 205 - 16/09/2019 10:41:37    2235973

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Replying To ManusFromHeaven:  "There it is, gallant stuff from Kerry particularly in the first half but they never recovered from that abomination of a re-start to the 2nd half and when Dublin got 4 clear they were never gonna let it slip like the lead they let slip the first day.

Kerry will rightly have regrets over the Stephen O'Brien/Con O'Callaghan incident in the first half when a goal is on, a black card is a strong possibility, but all they got from it was a free and a yellow for O'Callaghan.

I think he absolutely has to be black carded- it is not a reasonable and legit attempt to win he ball, rather his mission is to foul first and make it looks as much as possible as a 'forwards tackle' or somehow make it look genuine because he knows exactly the territory he is in (black card)

If you look at some of the absolute nonsense black cards this summer ( Niall O'Donnell vs Kerry) there is no way that what O'Callaghan done to prevent a goal in an All Ireland final which is neck and neck at that time- deserves only a yellow.

Having said all that, by my count across both games Kerry made as many as 8 clear goal chances (5 first game, 3 on Saturday) and only took 1.

They made a hero of Cluxton across the 2 games when he should have been sore from picking it out of the net."
Agree re: Cluxton.

If you remember our famous win against them in 2014 when we scored 3 goals. Two of them were scored from point blank range. Ryan palmed one in from about 6 yards and Colm dummied around Cluxton and practically walked it into the net,

I think that is the key to beating Dublin. It's nigh on impossible to out-point them. So goal chances simply have to be gobbled up when they present themselves.

In the first game Geaney missed two (1 blocked on the line, the other the penalty), Stephen O'Brien lashed over a point (admittedly it wasn't a gilt edged goal chance) and Paul Murphy blasted off the bar. If Kerry had put away even 2 or 3 of those with Dublin at 14 men it was lights out I reckon.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 6521 - 16/09/2019 11:26:20    2236007

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I find some of the analysis and throwing in the towel sentiment to dublin going forward to be very defeatist. Dublin have done amazing to win 5 in a row and they should always be there or thereabouts but I don't see them as this unbeatable machine the way that some people do. They've maybe 7 or so crucial players cluxton, Mccarthy, mccaffrey, fenton, howard, o'callaghan and probably mannion but he wasn't without flaws on Saturday. Their fb line is very good but not exceptional. That kerry team is a bit raw yet and they're not quite there but give them a year or so. This coupled with Dublin retirements should potentially start tilting the balance in their favour at least for a few years. Also If the Dublin strength in depth is so vast their second team should have completely wiped the floor with the Tyrone second team earlier in the year but they did not.

I also think the kerry management lost a bit of bottle. In the first match they didn't let Dublin best offensive players beat them. They pushed up hard on cluxton kick outs and that rattled dublin and they failed to get into their rhythm. Kerry missed a bucket load of chances and I know it also exposed them to mccaffrey's runs but as a trade off to limiting kilkenny, mannions and o'callaghans impact it's probably worth it. Cluxton had an armchair ride in the second match from kickouts and that let Dublin control the play and get these key forwards scoring. Kerry were also launching crazy hail mary long ball in at the start and that only resulted in them conceding at the other end. And I suppose they ultimately ran out of gas near and Dublin seen it home comfortably in the end.

And finally Just thinking from a donegal players perspective if you had the same attitude as these pundits you're beat before you start. Donegal admittedly with big commitment of the younger fellas to s&c in the off season, are really well equipped to give any team a right rattle next year including Dublin. I hope the players and management genuinely believe this.

Ulsterchamps_32 (Donegal) - Posts: 217 - 16/09/2019 12:58:14    2236064

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Agree with all the post match analysis. Kerry really had their chance in the first game but their goal conversion rate was poor like it has been all year. There are alot of similarities between this Kerry team and Donegal including goal conversion rates over the last year something both sides will need to address. In the drawn match Kerry done a great job of controlling possession something they abandoned to a degree in the second game. This was highlighted by the long balls they were trying to play into the full forward line in the first 10 minutes. I like that they tried to do something different but they were over aggressive and felt they timed it wrong. As pointed out the start of the second half was an abomination. This is the time more than any other period you really need to try and take away any momentum from Dublin. David Moran was presented with the perfect platform to do this but conceded possession cheaply and Kerry were set up too loose which Dublin took advantage of. As the game went on Dublin did what they do so well by remaining composed, making the right decisions while controlling the tempo of the game. Kerry had the opportunity to open the game up but Stephen O'Brien made the wrong decision taking on a shot with Geaney better placed. Effectively that was game over and you can guarantee if Dublin were in the same position the ball would have hit the net.

Looking forward I genuinely believe that Kerry and Donegal are the 2 teams best placed to stop a 6, 7 or 8 in a row. Quite simply because of their forwards and ability to get their match ups right but it will be a tall order. You are relying on a few factors namely match ups, ability to control possession including an effective kickout strategy, game management esp at the start of the second half, efficiency and taking the goal chances when presented which Dublin do give you. Of course the likes of Tyrone, Mayo and maybe Galway could easily beat Donegal or Kerry on any day but I just don't think for various reasons especially forwards (not including Galway who have the forward talent but issues at other end) they can beat Dublin at the moment.

panamasam (Australia) - Posts: 2118 - 19/09/2019 11:55:48    2237503

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