Carlow Forum

Footballers 2017

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Huge congrats to Gary Kelly on making both the GAA and Hoganstand Team Of The Week.
Am thrilled with everything this year and thanks to management we are now certainly going in the right direction! We will see bigger attendances at Div 4 games starting in Feb and I think we will see an increase in attendance at SFC games to see some of our stars in action. Keep it going everybody. It's not about the 15 on the field - we need 30 to 35 players in who want to die for the Jersey.
Roll on 2018.

novalis (Carlow) - Posts: 257 - 17/07/2017 23:05:43    2018425

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What a great year for the footballers. Only 2 years ago we looked awful against laois with very similar players.

To see the improvement in fitness of the players is testimony to a great job done by management and personally I love the system we are playing as it suits our players.

County board should move quick to secure the management for next year and promotion has to be a target.

But the great thing about competing with Dublin and Monaghan is I wouldn't fear drawing anyone in Leinster aside from the dubs.

carlovia (None) - Posts: 1102 - 18/07/2017 18:54:25    2018862

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Listen Carlow. We should have beat Monaghan, you should have beat Monaghan but neither of us beat Monaghan. Fact of the matter is next year you will be in division 4 and might not get promoted, we will be on division 2 and should win it. Monaghan will be relegated from division 1. Remember one thing, Cavan have won all Ireland's. Monaghan and Carlow have none.

foxes_denn (Cavan) - Posts: 128 - 18/07/2017 23:06:57    2018997

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Replying To foxes_denn:  "Listen Carlow. We should have beat Monaghan, you should have beat Monaghan but neither of us beat Monaghan. Fact of the matter is next year you will be in division 4 and might not get promoted, we will be on division 2 and should win it. Monaghan will be relegated from division 1. Remember one thing, Cavan have won all Ireland's. Monaghan and Carlow have none."
Thanks for that foxes.

Pity all those All-Irelands Cavan have didnt help you against Tipperary
or Monaghan.

Carlow won 3 championship games this year.

carlovia (None) - Posts: 1102 - 19/07/2017 09:01:09    2019068

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Replying To foxes_denn:  "Listen Carlow. We should have beat Monaghan, you should have beat Monaghan but neither of us beat Monaghan. Fact of the matter is next year you will be in division 4 and might not get promoted, we will be on division 2 and should win it. Monaghan will be relegated from division 1. Remember one thing, Cavan have won all Ireland's. Monaghan and Carlow have none."
Good man foxes denn, I bet you've been saying that about Monaghan for the last few leagues. The fact of the matter is, we were a kick of a ball away from making a league final, while Cavan weren't good enough and got relegated. Enjoy those sour grapes, you must have developed a taste for them by now.

Hard luck on Saturday Carlow, you really gave us the fright of our lives. Seems to be alot of good work being done in the county which is great to see. Hopefully yous kick on next year, promotion in the league is vital for development.

patk (Monaghan) - Posts: 851 - 19/07/2017 10:28:03    2019117

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I have been following Carlow for many years now. The last few years, as someone alluded to earlier, we were bet out the gate by Laois and many other teams. We looked overweight, unfit and clueless tactically. This year has been a huge turnaround with the same players. The only real change in background staff is Poacher. Turlough and Wogan are there a few years and we weren't improving til this year. Damien Sheehan had physical for a good few years and we were mostly not up to scratch. It seems Poacher has revolutionalised the whole set up. Well done on that. I don't think we were that much fitter this year, but in getting the whole team to run back to 45 everytime we lose the ball, we could defend in numbers without covering savage ground or chasing too much. I think it will be hard to build on this next year. Against the poorer teams we need to attack more. Defending wont get us out of Div 4. Well done though lads this year.

anFhrainc (Carlow) - Posts: 62 - 19/07/2017 13:52:20    2019277

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Replying To anFhrainc:  "I have been following Carlow for many years now. The last few years, as someone alluded to earlier, we were bet out the gate by Laois and many other teams. We looked overweight, unfit and clueless tactically. This year has been a huge turnaround with the same players. The only real change in background staff is Poacher. Turlough and Wogan are there a few years and we weren't improving til this year. Damien Sheehan had physical for a good few years and we were mostly not up to scratch. It seems Poacher has revolutionalised the whole set up. Well done on that. I don't think we were that much fitter this year, but in getting the whole team to run back to 45 everytime we lose the ball, we could defend in numbers without covering savage ground or chasing too much. I think it will be hard to build on this next year. Against the poorer teams we need to attack more. Defending wont get us out of Div 4. Well done though lads this year."
i agree with that... our system works brilliantly against good teams... But the problem is Division 4 is full of bad teams... and as we saw twice with London this year, we are vulnerable to bad teams... It needs tweaking for league... but, sadly, I don't think Poacher will stay on.

CARPS (Carlow) - Posts: 327 - 19/07/2017 13:59:19    2019285

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Replying To anFhrainc:  "I have been following Carlow for many years now. The last few years, as someone alluded to earlier, we were bet out the gate by Laois and many other teams. We looked overweight, unfit and clueless tactically. This year has been a huge turnaround with the same players. The only real change in background staff is Poacher. Turlough and Wogan are there a few years and we weren't improving til this year. Damien Sheehan had physical for a good few years and we were mostly not up to scratch. It seems Poacher has revolutionalised the whole set up. Well done on that. I don't think we were that much fitter this year, but in getting the whole team to run back to 45 everytime we lose the ball, we could defend in numbers without covering savage ground or chasing too much. I think it will be hard to build on this next year. Against the poorer teams we need to attack more. Defending wont get us out of Div 4. Well done though lads this year."
Since the beginning of the league we have only lost twice to division four teams. Since the last defeat we have played 6 and won 6 by an average of 6 or 7 points if memory serves me correctly. Whether it be league or championship we have beaten every team in div 4 except west meath who we drew with. So I think it's fair to say our system has worked well after a dodgy start.

Bimb (Carlow) - Posts: 434 - 19/07/2017 15:16:41    2019334

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Replying To dead_as_dodos:  "Why oh why did we not be more positive there tonite. Monaghan were there for the taking but we were far too conservative in the second half when we went ahead. Anyway fair play to lads who gave it everything. Couple of issues I have ,how did they leave Foley on the pitch for all that match, just unbelievable. Our kickouts were poor also ,why was Kearney dropped? his kickouts are far more accurate."
Judging by the lack of replies to your post to many on here seem happy with a glorious defeat. Carlow I feel left a wonderful chance behind them with the negative tactics they employed Monaghan were at sixes and sevans after the goal and were there for the taking. I couldn't believe why they sat back and invited Monaghan on to them they had the wind and the crowd behind them if they had only been a bit more adventurous. It's a pity because chances like that to go win a game don't happen very often for the underdog plus as they showed again wexford they are well capable of playing football if they were allowed to.

dubarra (Wicklow) - Posts: 427 - 19/07/2017 16:05:24    2019368

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Replying To CARPS:  "i agree with that... our system works brilliantly against good teams... But the problem is Division 4 is full of bad teams... and as we saw twice with London this year, we are vulnerable to bad teams... It needs tweaking for league... but, sadly, I don't think Poacher will stay on."
Do you have any basis for your fear Poacher won't stay on? Is there any substance to that is is it just your hunch?

I think keeping him is absolutely essential and I fear the wheels may come off without him. I've seen at close hand how he has overridden Turlough and I would would fear without him we'll fall back into old ways. That's not a criticism of Turlough, he brings a lot to the package, but the tactical key is Poacher.

Onion Breath (Carlow) - Posts: 1228 - 19/07/2017 19:14:52    2019502

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Replying To dead_as_dodos:  "Why oh why did we not be more positive there tonite. Monaghan were there for the taking but we were far too conservative in the second half when we went ahead. Anyway fair play to lads who gave it everything. Couple of issues I have ,how did they leave Foley on the pitch for all that match, just unbelievable. Our kickouts were poor also ,why was Kearney dropped? his kickouts are far more accurate."
Yes the temptation to go more attacking is there when we are winning by 1 point with 15 minutes to go, but don't forget it was the game plan we were playing up to then that got us that 1 point lead. Opening up our play would have allowed Monaghan to attack with a lot more freedom too and they would have had a field day finishing the game and we could be back to the same old hammerings. The game plan pays off most of the time but there are going to be days where we are at the wrong side of a tight game.

In relation to player selection, that even baffles me. The lucky thing for some of our backs is that we have so much lads back there now that an average player can hide and not be found out. Too much of our defense are good at going forward but can't put in a decent tackle.
If our game plan is to dog the wings and mid-field why weren't changes made sooner to these positions, especially the wing forwards. The time to make changes was when we got the goal. It would have wasted a bit of time bringing on 3 or 4 subs (1 at a time) and would have given our running game a boost. Why was Gary Kelly taken off? Not injured and there was lads doing far less than him on the field at the time he was taken off. Foley needed to come off. He doesn't suit the running game and did very little for us VS London, Leitrim and Monaghan. His free may have led to the goal, but that should have been taken by Broderick, who had just put one over from the same place and was on form.

If we truly want to progress then we have to have a slight player reshuffle. Poacher seems to have brought a tactical edge but more importantly a confidence and belief among the players. Would like to see some fresh faces next year as some of the ones who have been there for too long need to see a game from the side line to see what they need to do.

townman10 (Carlow) - Posts: 40 - 20/07/2017 10:13:42    2019782

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Steven poacher has an article on carlow in Gaelic life today. Can be found on carlow gaa twitter.

Last line he says "roll on 2018, ceatharlach abu"

Turlough obrien has already put promotion as the focus for next year.

Can't wait for next season.

carlovia (None) - Posts: 1102 - 20/07/2017 11:38:26    2019850

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Replying To townman10:  "Yes the temptation to go more attacking is there when we are winning by 1 point with 15 minutes to go, but don't forget it was the game plan we were playing up to then that got us that 1 point lead. Opening up our play would have allowed Monaghan to attack with a lot more freedom too and they would have had a field day finishing the game and we could be back to the same old hammerings. The game plan pays off most of the time but there are going to be days where we are at the wrong side of a tight game.

In relation to player selection, that even baffles me. The lucky thing for some of our backs is that we have so much lads back there now that an average player can hide and not be found out. Too much of our defense are good at going forward but can't put in a decent tackle.
If our game plan is to dog the wings and mid-field why weren't changes made sooner to these positions, especially the wing forwards. The time to make changes was when we got the goal. It would have wasted a bit of time bringing on 3 or 4 subs (1 at a time) and would have given our running game a boost. Why was Gary Kelly taken off? Not injured and there was lads doing far less than him on the field at the time he was taken off. Foley needed to come off. He doesn't suit the running game and did very little for us VS London, Leitrim and Monaghan. His free may have led to the goal, but that should have been taken by Broderick, who had just put one over from the same place and was on form.

If we truly want to progress then we have to have a slight player reshuffle. Poacher seems to have brought a tactical edge but more importantly a confidence and belief among the players. Would like to see some fresh faces next year as some of the ones who have been there for too long need to see a game from the side line to see what they need to do."
Agree with almost everything you say. A few hard calls have to be made by management next year. Lack of pace means we can never stray from plan a so that needs to be adressed. We have players who can attack at pace and that's what we need more of. Renwick looks to be an exciting prospect. Shane o Neill, huge gahan and hopefully Jordan morrisey would add a lot to tell team. Hopefully some more talent emerges in club championship.

Bimb (Carlow) - Posts: 434 - 20/07/2017 12:52:03    2019910

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Grand to hear about new players etc but I cant say the county is coming down with quality. Also to be an inter-county player takes serious commitment - some lads just don't have it ... they talk the talk, but then ..... well walk

Bainisteoir (National) - Posts: 476 - 20/07/2017 12:52:12    2019911

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Replying To townman10:  "Yes the temptation to go more attacking is there when we are winning by 1 point with 15 minutes to go, but don't forget it was the game plan we were playing up to then that got us that 1 point lead. Opening up our play would have allowed Monaghan to attack with a lot more freedom too and they would have had a field day finishing the game and we could be back to the same old hammerings. The game plan pays off most of the time but there are going to be days where we are at the wrong side of a tight game.

In relation to player selection, that even baffles me. The lucky thing for some of our backs is that we have so much lads back there now that an average player can hide and not be found out. Too much of our defense are good at going forward but can't put in a decent tackle.
If our game plan is to dog the wings and mid-field why weren't changes made sooner to these positions, especially the wing forwards. The time to make changes was when we got the goal. It would have wasted a bit of time bringing on 3 or 4 subs (1 at a time) and would have given our running game a boost. Why was Gary Kelly taken off? Not injured and there was lads doing far less than him on the field at the time he was taken off. Foley needed to come off. He doesn't suit the running game and did very little for us VS London, Leitrim and Monaghan. His free may have led to the goal, but that should have been taken by Broderick, who had just put one over from the same place and was on form.

If we truly want to progress then we have to have a slight player reshuffle. Poacher seems to have brought a tactical edge but more importantly a confidence and belief among the players. Would like to see some fresh faces next year as some of the ones who have been there for too long need to see a game from the side line to see what they need to do."
Agree with almost everything you say. A few hard calls have to be made by management next year. Lack of pace means we can never stray from plan a so that needs to be adressed. We have players who can attack at pace and that's what we need more of. Renwick looks to be an exciting prospect. Shane o Neill, huge gahan and hopefully Jordan morrisey would add a lot to tell team. Hopefully some more talent emerges in club championship.

Bimb (Carlow) - Posts: 434 - 20/07/2017 13:23:49    2019941

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Replying To Bainisteoir:  "Grand to hear about new players etc but I cant say the county is coming down with quality. Also to be an inter-county player takes serious commitment - some lads just don't have it ... they talk the talk, but then ..... well walk"
Fair enough bainisteoir. I'm simply trying to say that from what I ve seen our game plan is limited against decent opposition. However the systen suts the players we have. Hats off to those guy who stuck with the county team over the years. They kept it alive when all looked lost a few years ago. They deserved a run like this year. I hope this is the start of something special but it won't be easy get back to where we were Saturday evening.

Bimb (Carlow) - Posts: 434 - 20/07/2017 13:28:22    2019947

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I think context is important here. The two champ games we lost were against teams from the top 8. Realistically we aren't going to have the resources or numbers to be a consistent top 8 side. But what we can do is climb the divisions in the league. At least getting us compete regularly with division 3 teams and stay in that league for a few years. Bottom line is every team in the country will look limited when playing the top 8/10 teams. That's just a fact. I just think of when I walked out of dr Cullen last year time after time with my head telling me this is going nowhere. Unbelievable strides. I don't think we are going to be winning Leinster's but we definitely are better than a division 4 team. And when we play other teams at that level I think it's fair to judge they system and players on that rather than looking at Dublin and Monaghan etc and saying our players aren't good enough and some lad who walked off the panel or refused to play to the system would be better. I think when we sit back and look at it over all. Unbelievable strides have been made

Hometown45 (Carlow) - Posts: 185 - 20/07/2017 13:54:41    2019965

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Replying To anFhrainc:  "I have been following Carlow for many years now. The last few years, as someone alluded to earlier, we were bet out the gate by Laois and many other teams. We looked overweight, unfit and clueless tactically. This year has been a huge turnaround with the same players. The only real change in background staff is Poacher. Turlough and Wogan are there a few years and we weren't improving til this year. Damien Sheehan had physical for a good few years and we were mostly not up to scratch. It seems Poacher has revolutionalised the whole set up. Well done on that. I don't think we were that much fitter this year, but in getting the whole team to run back to 45 everytime we lose the ball, we could defend in numbers without covering savage ground or chasing too much. I think it will be hard to build on this next year. Against the poorer teams we need to attack more. Defending wont get us out of Div 4. Well done though lads this year."
Completely agree that the success is a direct result of Poacher. From what I hear he takes all the training sessions, gives the team talks before the game and at half time and introduced match and video analysis before games. He has instilled confidence and has motivated the players all year. Like you said Turlough and co have been around for the last 3 years and what was achieved without Poacher? I heard that Poacher may not be returning next year as he got a job closer to home, not sure if there is any truth in it.

I agree with what others have said here about hesitations to make substitutions when needed. Turlough appears to have a huge amount of faith and loyalty towards the lads that have been around for the last number of years and is very hesitant to show them the line when they are clearly not playing well. This attitude needs to change if we are to drive on from what we achieved this year.

Uptheduffer (Carlow) - Posts: 29 - 20/07/2017 13:56:09    2019967

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Credit to TOB for maybe recognizing he or Carlow football do not have all the answers and like in rugby or even some of the other counties, specialized coaches are brought in and the role of the manager is to facilitate this. Some guys can get caught up with ego etc and lose sight of the bigger picture, but TOB to his credit has certainly brought things on and the picture is now much better than a year or two ago.

Not sure if Poacher has another job, rumours will always go around, generally unfounded in my experience. His reputation is on the rise, but it seems there is a good chemistry there between the entire group and that is not always easy to replicate or might not be as transferable as you would think. So hopefully he could do another season, although it is a big commitment in terms of travel (although the hurling manager Bonner is based in Killarney !!).

Bainisteoir (National) - Posts: 476 - 20/07/2017 14:53:21    2020010

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Replying To Hometown45:  "I think context is important here. The two champ games we lost were against teams from the top 8. Realistically we aren't going to have the resources or numbers to be a consistent top 8 side. But what we can do is climb the divisions in the league. At least getting us compete regularly with division 3 teams and stay in that league for a few years. Bottom line is every team in the country will look limited when playing the top 8/10 teams. That's just a fact. I just think of when I walked out of dr Cullen last year time after time with my head telling me this is going nowhere. Unbelievable strides. I don't think we are going to be winning Leinster's but we definitely are better than a division 4 team. And when we play other teams at that level I think it's fair to judge they system and players on that rather than looking at Dublin and Monaghan etc and saying our players aren't good enough and some lad who walked off the panel or refused to play to the system would be better. I think when we sit back and look at it over all. Unbelievable strides have been made"
Even accepting everything you say still doesn't alter the fact that mistakes were made last Saturday. leaving a player on the field whose sole contribution was a miskicked free is not good management especially when you have more mobile players on the line. If you analyze this season in detail you have to conclude that the huge difference was the arrival of Poacher and Sean Murphy's decision to switch from hurling. So if we are to progress we need to improve the panel again. I agree we are not falling down under the weight of great players but if we continue to progress they will materialize , it's the same in every sport players love success. The CCB should move mountains to ensure Poacher isn't poached(sorry) as the bottom will fall out of the whole show if he is. Remember the deflation around the county after T. Walsh left. We don't want that again.

dead_as_dodos (Carlow) - Posts: 459 - 21/07/2017 12:01:02    2020485

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