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Stepping Away And Retirements (Early)

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Replying To KingdomBoy1:  "I disagree with you yew tree, because I know dublin will win the allireland at a canter and you can take that to the bank."
Has it dawned yet on Kerry folk that Minor teams need to evolve into good U21 players ,before making the step up at senior level in today modern game.?

BeJasus (UK) - Posts: 291 - 14/01/2021 19:19:45    2327457

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Replying To BeJasus:  "Has it dawned yet on Kerry folk that Minor teams need to evolve into good U21 players ,before making the step up at senior level in today modern game.?"
Yes Bejasus you are right.However some of our minors like Clifford went straight to senior and was nt allowed play u20 by the gaa rules. Kerry s u 20 team miseed out on Sean Ó Sé Clifford and Diarmuid Ó Connor due to the rules. On minors one is never guaranteed success. U20 is a better barometer and Kerry have nt turned any winning minor team into champs yet at u20 albeit unlucky due to losing players. However at the moment Kerry gave a good few of winning minors on senior panel and have a good group of players together. I'm confident enough that Kerry will be strong contenders.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 1608 - 14/01/2021 21:26:24    2327481

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Replying To CiarraiMick:  "Yes Bejasus you are right.However some of our minors like Clifford went straight to senior and was nt allowed play u20 by the gaa rules. Kerry s u 20 team miseed out on Sean Ó Sé Clifford and Diarmuid Ó Connor due to the rules. On minors one is never guaranteed success. U20 is a better barometer and Kerry have nt turned any winning minor team into champs yet at u20 albeit unlucky due to losing players. However at the moment Kerry gave a good few of winning minors on senior panel and have a good group of players together. I'm confident enough that Kerry will be strong contenders."
Yep agreed with that point Mick. The best players from those minor teams never played U20/21 so its hard to say that the should've done better. It's akin to taking Fenton, Kilkenny, Howard or Scully and O'Callaghan out of the Dublin team and saying they should still win the AI at a canter. They likely would but would be a lot more difficult.

I agree with your point on the U20 being a better barometer. In the last 7-10 years Meath teams have beaten Dublin at minor gotten a bit cock a hoop and then got hammered at u20/21 grade. The Dubs are concentrating on their skills and development rather than winning at minor level. Their U20/21 are their major underage team where it is about lads winning and getting a place in the senior panel. If you look at most of their victories, alds only get a guaranteed spot in their later 20's ala Small, Byrne etc. You have to earn your place on the team. You get an odd exception like O'Callaghan but you're not getting into that Dublin team if you're 19-23 and being rushed ahead like every other county.

brian (Meath) - Posts: 1081 - 15/01/2021 09:55:33    2327513

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Replying To CiarraiMick:  "Yes Bejasus you are right.However some of our minors like Clifford went straight to senior and was nt allowed play u20 by the gaa rules. Kerry s u 20 team miseed out on Sean Ó Sé Clifford and Diarmuid Ó Connor due to the rules. On minors one is never guaranteed success. U20 is a better barometer and Kerry have nt turned any winning minor team into champs yet at u20 albeit unlucky due to losing players. However at the moment Kerry gave a good few of winning minors on senior panel and have a good group of players together. I'm confident enough that Kerry will be strong contenders."
Ya Mick also losing Mark O'Connor and Steffan Okunbar to Oz.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 12572 - 15/01/2021 11:54:10    2327532

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Replying To KingdomBoy1:  "Ya Mick also losing Mark O'Connor and Steffan Okunbar to Oz."
Don't forget Davidos too ;)

brian (Meath) - Posts: 1081 - 15/01/2021 12:24:28    2327540

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Replying To brian:  "Yep agreed with that point Mick. The best players from those minor teams never played U20/21 so its hard to say that the should've done better. It's akin to taking Fenton, Kilkenny, Howard or Scully and O'Callaghan out of the Dublin team and saying they should still win the AI at a canter. They likely would but would be a lot more difficult.

I agree with your point on the U20 being a better barometer. In the last 7-10 years Meath teams have beaten Dublin at minor gotten a bit cock a hoop and then got hammered at u20/21 grade. The Dubs are concentrating on their skills and development rather than winning at minor level. Their U20/21 are their major underage team where it is about lads winning and getting a place in the senior panel. If you look at most of their victories, alds only get a guaranteed spot in their later 20's ala Small, Byrne etc. You have to earn your place on the team. You get an odd exception like O'Callaghan but you're not getting into that Dublin team if you're 19-23 and being rushed ahead like every other county."
Not sure thats entirely true Brian, almost all of the Dublin lads come through in their early 20's, a year maybe two after the U20's. Can only think of Robbie and maybe Bastick who has graduated to a starting berth in later 20's, but Robbie has been around for years on the panel.

Granted we have no need to grab lads from minor, but some of our U20s over the last few years played senior championship the same year.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 3924 - 15/01/2021 12:29:13    2327542

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Replying To KingdomBoy1:  "Ya Mick also losing Mark O'Connor and Steffan Okunbar to Oz."
But sure Mick wouldn't know about that seeing as he's not from Kerry like. You can take that to the bank too.

catch22 (USA) - Posts: 1906 - 15/01/2021 12:33:59    2327543

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Replying To catch22:  "But sure Mick wouldn't know about that seeing as he's not from Kerry like. You can take that to the bank too."
Oh you didn't mean that......

crying laughing roling eyes emoji ;)

brian (Meath) - Posts: 1081 - 15/01/2021 12:49:03    2327546

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Replying To brian:  "Don't forget Davidos too ;)"
Hi Brian you never replied to my post the other day over on the hoganstand readers team of the year forwards thread, remember where you lost the head accusing me of hating the dubs even though I picked 9 dubs on my team of the year, and you even went as far as to bring Clifford and Seánie Shea into it trying to get a reaction.

Anyway Uosis where he'll be a big loss to my club he won't be as big a loss to the County team, whereas the other 2 boys are exactly what we're missing in midfield and full back.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 12572 - 15/01/2021 13:36:45    2327559

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Barrett gone now.
Massive/Massive loss.
Others were manageable.

BeJasus (UK) - Posts: 291 - 15/01/2021 14:57:59    2327578

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Replying To CiarraiMick:  "Yes Bejasus you are right.However some of our minors like Clifford went straight to senior and was nt allowed play u20 by the gaa rules. Kerry s u 20 team miseed out on Sean Ó Sé Clifford and Diarmuid Ó Connor due to the rules. On minors one is never guaranteed success. U20 is a better barometer and Kerry have nt turned any winning minor team into champs yet at u20 albeit unlucky due to losing players. However at the moment Kerry gave a good few of winning minors on senior panel and have a good group of players together. I'm confident enough that Kerry will be strong contenders."
I think so too,
The defeatism shown by some other posters is not what i associate with Kerry people on here,

GAA system wont be changing over the next 5/10 years , so mayaswell give it a go, and your long emblemised record is now under threat if All Ireland win rates continue at this pace..

The Mayos, Galways, Kerrys ,Donegals ,Tyrone's of this world can grind Dublin down from the QF onwards , possibly tiring them out before an All Ireland giving the finalist a proper chance.

The key for me is Leinster teams .....who need to at least give Dublin players a few knocks and bruises before they head into the business end of the championship..

Wimping out , and allowing Dublin stroll into the QF stage whilst maintaining peak physical conditioning does the other teams no favours whatsoever..

BeJasus (UK) - Posts: 291 - 15/01/2021 15:35:01    2327587

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Replying To brian:  "Yep agreed with that point Mick. The best players from those minor teams never played U20/21 so its hard to say that the should've done better. It's akin to taking Fenton, Kilkenny, Howard or Scully and O'Callaghan out of the Dublin team and saying they should still win the AI at a canter. They likely would but would be a lot more difficult.

I agree with your point on the U20 being a better barometer. In the last 7-10 years Meath teams have beaten Dublin at minor gotten a bit cock a hoop and then got hammered at u20/21 grade. The Dubs are concentrating on their skills and development rather than winning at minor level. Their U20/21 are their major underage team where it is about lads winning and getting a place in the senior panel. If you look at most of their victories, alds only get a guaranteed spot in their later 20's ala Small, Byrne etc. You have to earn your place on the team. You get an odd exception like O'Callaghan but you're not getting into that Dublin team if you're 19-23 and being rushed ahead like every other county."
Spot on Brian

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 1608 - 15/01/2021 15:55:50    2327590

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Replying To TheUsername:  "Not sure thats entirely true Brian, almost all of the Dublin lads come through in their early 20's, a year maybe two after the U20's. Can only think of Robbie and maybe Bastick who has graduated to a starting berth in later 20's, but Robbie has been around for years on the panel.

Granted we have no need to grab lads from minor, but some of our U20s over the last few years played senior championship the same year."
Oh I'm not saying they're not getting a chance or anything like that. I'm more saying they're gradually brought into the team with subs appearances and the odd start. Its not until they're a few years on the panel before you'd 100% guarantee them a starting spot in the team. Look at Murchan for example, is this his 3/4th year on the panel? And this is the first year you'd say he's a guaranteed starter.

There's absolutely no rush for the Dubs to bring in someone at 19-22, they can develop at their own rate and nail a starting spot at 23-25. Most other teams Kerry (O'Se and Clifford) Mayo (Mullen and Conroy) and Meath (Walsh and Morris) have guys still in or barely out of their teens as mainstays of the team in their first years on the panel.

brian (Meath) - Posts: 1081 - 15/01/2021 16:05:59    2327593

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Replying To BeJasus:  "Barrett gone now.
Massive/Massive loss.
Others were manageable."
Barrett was an excellent player and will be a big loss.

What Mayo needs to do now is get their top minors to become top U20 players and then hopefully they might become Mayo senior footballers.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 12572 - 15/01/2021 16:22:58    2327596

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Well now Chis Barrett is a massive loss. Always rated him and though he was as good as there was around...

Kinda getting to the stage that you forget how old some of these lads have got... whats servants they have been

ponger (Cavan) - Posts: 459 - 15/01/2021 16:25:14    2327597

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Replying To KingdomBoy1:  "Barrett was an excellent player and will be a big loss.

What Mayo needs to do now is get their top minors to become top U20 players and then hopefully they might become Mayo senior footballers."
U20s this year lost to the All Ireland champions via Penalty shootout, and they blitzed everyone else..

If you were observant you'd see some have already been drafted in, and not winning an All Ireland at underage level doesn't mean you have a squad full of crap players, Yanno..

A cursory look at multiple counties around the country shows many players who blossomed well after underage level.

Shouldn't be used a a barometer but it seems to be the theme, possibly to buy managers time.......

BeJasus (UK) - Posts: 291 - 15/01/2021 17:12:42    2327603

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Replying To BeJasus:  "U20s this year lost to the All Ireland champions via Penalty shootout, and they blitzed everyone else..

If you were observant you'd see some have already been drafted in, and not winning an All Ireland at underage level doesn't mean you have a squad full of crap players, Yanno..

A cursory look at multiple counties around the country shows many players who blossomed well after underage level.

Shouldn't be used a a barometer but it seems to be the theme, possibly to buy managers time......."
True. Also I've seen some outstanding minors that never made it a senior level and then some lads that are very ordinary underage blossom later. Ironically Dessie Farrell dropped Brian Fenton off the Dublin panel at underage.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 1608 - 15/01/2021 17:34:47    2327606

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Replying To BeJasus:  "Barrett gone now.
Massive/Massive loss.
Others were manageable."
Barret was a hell of a player, not be easy finding anyone as good to fill his spot. All the best to him in retirement.

Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 1223 - 15/01/2021 18:35:49    2327619

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Replying To brian:  "Oh I'm not saying they're not getting a chance or anything like that. I'm more saying they're gradually brought into the team with subs appearances and the odd start. Its not until they're a few years on the panel before you'd 100% guarantee them a starting spot in the team. Look at Murchan for example, is this his 3/4th year on the panel? And this is the first year you'd say he's a guaranteed starter.

There's absolutely no rush for the Dubs to bring in someone at 19-22, they can develop at their own rate and nail a starting spot at 23-25. Most other teams Kerry (O'Se and Clifford) Mayo (Mullen and Conroy) and Meath (Walsh and Morris) have guys still in or barely out of their teens as mainstays of the team in their first years on the panel."
Still not sure I'm board there with you Brian, we've great squad depth and a strong squad of course but I think our underage and bringing lads in very young is part of that. Of the top of my head I'm thinking Costello, Jack, Mannion, POC, King Con, Howard, Comerford, Kilkenny, Eric L who represented Dublin U20/21 & senior at the same time, winning All Ireland's to. The likes of Murch, J.Small, Scully, Bugler, Davey Byrne maybe get there a year or two after. Murch just on a matter of point has started two All Ireland finals and he's 24.

Not sure Dublin do "starting positions" per say. I mean Murch probably started more then say Cian O Sullivan since he came through.

I don't see how that's any different then say Morris & Walsh or Mullen or Conroy. Personally I think O Shea and certainly Clifford were brought into early, I hope on wrong in that for those lads sake.

We're not raiding our minors certainly and we have an approach to development alright, I think it's individually based on what best for the player, but their is certainly examples of lads being excellerated for Dublin from underage, All Ireland winning teams look a lot weaker without Kilkenny, Mannion, King Con and Jack, who I think all won two U20s & Senior in the same season - actually think Cian was beaten vs Longford.

Anyhow I know the point you are making, it's an interesting one, I find it fascinating counties different approaches to brining through "youth".

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 3924 - 15/01/2021 19:38:29    2327632

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A sense of happiness to be completely honest hearing the news Barret has retired. Saying that as a rival Rossie because Mayo will miss him. A phenomenal player who even well in his 30s this year with little or no league football came out and netrualised our forwards. One of the best around whenever given a job to do on a man. I rated him extremely highly and dont mean this in a bad way but happy to see the back of him against us. Best of luck to him in his retirement

sourmilk93 (Roscommon) - Posts: 609 - 15/01/2021 23:15:56    2327667

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