National Forum

Is Now The Time For Brian Cody To Step Down?

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Replying To Viking66:  "And what about Clare Waterford and Dublin?"
Well. Yes Indeed.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 2394 - 23/08/2019 10:41:04    2228708

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Replying To ClonardGael:  "Eddie Brennan waiting in the long grass...."
Eddie Brennan is a good manager but the Kilkenny public wont forget Westmeath.....

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 908 - 23/08/2019 19:02:19    2228851

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Replying To Viking66:  "Eddie Brennan is a good manager but the Kilkenny public wont forget Westmeath....."
But was it Eddie Brennan who brought them to the 2017 U21 final, where they put a very solid performance?

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 2394 - 23/08/2019 20:18:50    2228867

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Replying To suckvalleypaddy:  "This is Kilkenny business"
I was thinking the same myself :) I don't think I could say from the outside looking in whether he should stay or go.

Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2513 - 23/08/2019 21:19:52    2228887

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Could see Cody coming back from this; he looked hurt after the final.

kerrykerry (Kerry) - Posts: 1779 - 23/08/2019 22:10:35    2228906

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I don't know if Cody's success will ever be repeated in any county. He had the right type of players also to execute his style. His present squad (some or most) lack the skills and the toughness he drilled into the past team. Also lets be honest I believe that style is now gone to history. Yet that was all they had on Sunday when faced with adversary and contributed to a bid flaking.
The on the edge toughness will not be tolerated anymore either .Brian tried to play a little different this year but I don't think his heart was in it. Should he go or not ? Brian and Kilkenny will make that decision and whose to second guess either if you review history. Certainly he is the greatest ever. Very disappointed with the after match strategy from all on Sunday. However that has been well debated all over the place.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 915 - 23/08/2019 22:14:54    2228908

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Replying To Oldtourman:  "But was it Eddie Brennan who brought them to the 2017 U21 final, where they put a very solid performance?"
It was. But they are not like us Oldtourman. They dont see that "merely" getting to a final ranks as an achievement;)

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 908 - 23/08/2019 23:15:10    2228923

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Replying To Oldtourman:  "But was it Eddie Brennan who brought them to the 2017 U21 final, where they put a very solid performance?"
What do the Kilkenny lads on this forum think? If I was a Kilkenny man Id think Id like Cody to stay on......

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 908 - 23/08/2019 23:15:57    2228924

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Replying To Viking66:  "What do the Kilkenny lads on this forum think? If I was a Kilkenny man Id think Id like Cody to stay on......"
I'm in two minds. I wouldn't put all the blame on him for last Sunday's loss. He's definitely not one of these managers who micro manages the players when they get on the field, he trusts them to make the right decisions themselves. I don't think he instructed them to start lobbing it into the square and make all stars of the Tipp FB line in one half of hurling. Likewise I don't think it was him who instructed them to start going for goal with 5 minutes still to play in the Leinster final.

He doesn't have the on-field generals that he used to have who he could trust to make the right decisions on the field. Henry Shefflin would never have allowed the tactics we employed in the last 5 minutes v Wexford and the second half v Tipp. The first aimless high ball into the square to an outnumbered​ kk forward, he'd have been sprinting back to midfield to berate the backs and that would stop. Tj's a brilliant hurler, and leads in his own way (by example, winning high ball, bringing teammates into the game etc.). But he's not a leader in the mould of Shefflin (and I don't hold that against him, leaders like Shefflin and Roy Keane are rare specimens).

Cody's strengths​ are developing what would be perceived to be "ordinary" players and turning them into a team capable of winning (well, reaching at least!) an all Ireland final. He has the utmost belief that any Kilkenny team he puts out on the field is capable of winning any match, no matter how unfancied, and I think he instills that belief into the players. Walter Walsh won an all Ireland final motm on his senior kk debut. He wasn't thinking "this is crazy, I shouldn't be here". Likewise, my recollection could be off here but didn't he drop Brian Hogan for Kieran Joyce for the 2014 replay v Tipp, and Joyce went on to win motm. Again, another example of a player dropped into the cauldron of an all Ireland final and having the confidence to play it like he had been doing it all his life.

I think that belief comes from Cody, he'd be constantly instilling into the players how they're all good hurlers, they wouldn't be on the kk panel if they weren't good hurlers, they're well capable of beating anyone etc etc. On paper, we were expected to lose to Cork, and we shouldn't have been on the same pitch as Limerick, but Cody had them primed to deliver big performances. And for the first 20-25 minutes against Tipp I thought we were as good as were against Limerick, before the red card incident and subsequent second half implosion. I'm not convinced that an Eddie, Henry or DJ could do better with this bunch of players.

ballydalane (Kilkenny) - Posts: 1107 - 24/08/2019 07:43:53    2228951

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Replying To ballydalane:  "I'm in two minds. I wouldn't put all the blame on him for last Sunday's loss. He's definitely not one of these managers who micro manages the players when they get on the field, he trusts them to make the right decisions themselves. I don't think he instructed them to start lobbing it into the square and make all stars of the Tipp FB line in one half of hurling. Likewise I don't think it was him who instructed them to start going for goal with 5 minutes still to play in the Leinster final.

He doesn't have the on-field generals that he used to have who he could trust to make the right decisions on the field. Henry Shefflin would never have allowed the tactics we employed in the last 5 minutes v Wexford and the second half v Tipp. The first aimless high ball into the square to an outnumbered​ kk forward, he'd have been sprinting back to midfield to berate the backs and that would stop. Tj's a brilliant hurler, and leads in his own way (by example, winning high ball, bringing teammates into the game etc.). But he's not a leader in the mould of Shefflin (and I don't hold that against him, leaders like Shefflin and Roy Keane are rare specimens).

Cody's strengths​ are developing what would be perceived to be "ordinary" players and turning them into a team capable of winning (well, reaching at least!) an all Ireland final. He has the utmost belief that any Kilkenny team he puts out on the field is capable of winning any match, no matter how unfancied, and I think he instills that belief into the players. Walter Walsh won an all Ireland final motm on his senior kk debut. He wasn't thinking "this is crazy, I shouldn't be here". Likewise, my recollection could be off here but didn't he drop Brian Hogan for Kieran Joyce for the 2014 replay v Tipp, and Joyce went on to win motm. Again, another example of a player dropped into the cauldron of an all Ireland final and having the confidence to play it like he had been doing it all his life.

I think that belief comes from Cody, he'd be constantly instilling into the players how they're all good hurlers, they wouldn't be on the kk panel if they weren't good hurlers, they're well capable of beating anyone etc etc. On paper, we were expected to lose to Cork, and we shouldn't have been on the same pitch as Limerick, but Cody had them primed to deliver big performances. And for the first 20-25 minutes against Tipp I thought we were as good as were against Limerick, before the red card incident and subsequent second half implosion. I'm not convinced that an Eddie, Henry or DJ could do better with this bunch of players."
I agree nobody could do any better with this present bunch.

Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 1026 - 24/08/2019 15:14:25    2229011

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Replying To ballydalane:  "I'm in two minds. I wouldn't put all the blame on him for last Sunday's loss. He's definitely not one of these managers who micro manages the players when they get on the field, he trusts them to make the right decisions themselves. I don't think he instructed them to start lobbing it into the square and make all stars of the Tipp FB line in one half of hurling. Likewise I don't think it was him who instructed them to start going for goal with 5 minutes still to play in the Leinster final.

He doesn't have the on-field generals that he used to have who he could trust to make the right decisions on the field. Henry Shefflin would never have allowed the tactics we employed in the last 5 minutes v Wexford and the second half v Tipp. The first aimless high ball into the square to an outnumbered​ kk forward, he'd have been sprinting back to midfield to berate the backs and that would stop. Tj's a brilliant hurler, and leads in his own way (by example, winning high ball, bringing teammates into the game etc.). But he's not a leader in the mould of Shefflin (and I don't hold that against him, leaders like Shefflin and Roy Keane are rare specimens).

Cody's strengths​ are developing what would be perceived to be "ordinary" players and turning them into a team capable of winning (well, reaching at least!) an all Ireland final. He has the utmost belief that any Kilkenny team he puts out on the field is capable of winning any match, no matter how unfancied, and I think he instills that belief into the players. Walter Walsh won an all Ireland final motm on his senior kk debut. He wasn't thinking "this is crazy, I shouldn't be here". Likewise, my recollection could be off here but didn't he drop Brian Hogan for Kieran Joyce for the 2014 replay v Tipp, and Joyce went on to win motm. Again, another example of a player dropped into the cauldron of an all Ireland final and having the confidence to play it like he had been doing it all his life.

I think that belief comes from Cody, he'd be constantly instilling into the players how they're all good hurlers, they wouldn't be on the kk panel if they weren't good hurlers, they're well capable of beating anyone etc etc. On paper, we were expected to lose to Cork, and we shouldn't have been on the same pitch as Limerick, but Cody had them primed to deliver big performances. And for the first 20-25 minutes against Tipp I thought we were as good as were against Limerick, before the red card incident and subsequent second half implosion. I'm not convinced that an Eddie, Henry or DJ could do better with this bunch of players."
I agree, its Cody that drives the whole thing. If he was to pack it in, it would hugely weaken the whole thing.

Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 944 - 24/08/2019 15:22:58    2229012

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Replying To Bon:  "I agree, its Cody that drives the whole thing. If he was to pack it in, it would hugely weaken the whole thing."
Cody should stay for another 10 years at least! He must learn to lose All-Irelands graciously!

baire (Galway) - Posts: 820 - 24/08/2019 16:06:37    2229017

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It's always a question that is likely to be asked after a county has dominated and then fallen back into the pack and perhaps had something of a meltdown in the second half of the AI final last week.
The reality imo is that Cody was blessed with the caliber of player he had for a decade or more and is now dealing with a different crop who are good hurlers but realistically not of the same standard as went before. Perhaps one or two yes but overall a weaker panel.
The bottom line is he probably wasn't that brilliant before last Sunday and hasn't diminished after it. I don't think anyone would do better with the group he has now and it would have been spectacular had they managed it.
Don't get me wrong , he is undoubtedly a great manager and has absolutely got everything he could have out of the new bunch this year but it's a different challenge he faces now and if he were to win another couple of AIs you would have recognize it as another stroke of genius.

Dubh_linn (Dublin) - Posts: 2164 - 24/08/2019 18:12:51    2229023

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Replying To Dubh_linn:  "It's always a question that is likely to be asked after a county has dominated and then fallen back into the pack and perhaps had something of a meltdown in the second half of the AI final last week.
The reality imo is that Cody was blessed with the caliber of player he had for a decade or more and is now dealing with a different crop who are good hurlers but realistically not of the same standard as went before. Perhaps one or two yes but overall a weaker panel.
The bottom line is he probably wasn't that brilliant before last Sunday and hasn't diminished after it. I don't think anyone would do better with the group he has now and it would have been spectacular had they managed it.
Don't get me wrong , he is undoubtedly a great manager and has absolutely got everything he could have out of the new bunch this year but it's a different challenge he faces now and if he were to win another couple of AIs you would have recognize it as another stroke of genius."
Plus Cody isn't getting any younger.

Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 1026 - 25/08/2019 17:25:12    2229198

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Cody is the greatest gaa manager of all time and he should be allowed time to make his own decision on when he retires.

gallarus14 (Kerry) - Posts: 118 - 25/08/2019 21:46:34    2229246

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Replying To gallarus14:  "Cody is the greatest gaa manager of all time and he should be allowed time to make his own decision on when he retires."
I'd put Cody and Mick O'Dwyer as the greatest ever in my opinion.

Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 1026 - 25/08/2019 22:56:07    2229259

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Replying To Sheedy:  "Brian cody has the right to decide as far as im concerned. Richie hogan should not be sent off. Barrett made the most of it. Like nickey english and silvie back in the day. Barrett tactics are terrible. Richie hogan can hold his head high. A genuine competitor."
I know this is a little of topic but I totally agree. Barrett should be the one hanging his head in shame. He has more business on the soccer pitch or maybe in the pool perfecting his dive. A disgrace. Not a big fan of Richie Hogan but he can hold his head high here he was robbed and Kilkenny were robbed.

clare_sparrow (Galway) - Posts: 292 - 27/08/2019 09:44:35    2229671

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Replying To clare_sparrow:  "I know this is a little of topic but I totally agree. Barrett should be the one hanging his head in shame. He has more business on the soccer pitch or maybe in the pool perfecting his dive. A disgrace. Not a big fan of Richie Hogan but he can hold his head high here he was robbed and Kilkenny were robbed."
There's a separate thread with about 30 pages of this nonsense already.

Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 944 - 27/08/2019 11:51:23    2229737

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Replying To gallarus14:  "Cody is the greatest gaa manager of all time and he should be allowed time to make his own decision on when he retires."
Cody will be allowed all the time he wants,he will decide wheter he goes or stays,no pressure from County Board

mooncat (Kilkenny) - Posts: 480 - 27/08/2019 12:11:26    2229744

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Replying To mooncat:  "Cody will be allowed all the time he wants,he will decide wheter he goes or stays,no pressure from County Board"
If he does stay he really needs to evolve his tactics, especially forward play as he has been found wanting in games they've had to chase in the second half.

In the AI and with Tipp having a spare man in Barratt, Kilkenny rained high ball upon high ball down in a congested area and made heros out of Barry Heffernan and the Mahers.

Wanna get passed a Maher, you need to run them, everyone knows that.

If anything the Leinster final was worse when the lead was very much within reach by picking off points, but panic seemed to set in which is very uncharacteristic of Kilkenny teams of yore.

Rode their luck getting to the final, but probably a good year for Kilkenny. Some new blood have shown their up to the required standard and more lads blooded with their better years ahead of them.

bricktop (Down) - Posts: 2459 - 27/08/2019 13:37:41    2229797

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