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Is Now The Time For Brian Cody To Step Down?

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Replying To endgame:  "Cody got Kilkenny to an All-Ireland Final when they weren't good enough to be there.They might have been better off not being there too because losing an All-Ireland Final by 14 points to your greatest rivals will hurt down by the Nore.The Manager with questions to answer after this year's championship isn't Cody who overachieved with his team but the Limerick Manager John Kiely who lost 3 championship matches with the best team and panel of payers in the country at his disposal."
Limerick is a great sporting county who's hurlers brought an All Ireland after 45 years. I thought they'd struggle this year as a result but they looked better than 2018. All teams can get caught in a knock out game and Limerick didn't have the luck of the officals at end of the KK game. To me Limerick are in a great place with the right manager to win multiple All Ireland's over the next decade. The biggest result for Tipp this year was KK catching Limerick, they must have thought they'd won the lotto. Tipp's path really opened up and Limerick will be kicking themselves but in reality Limerick are still sitting in a great place to kick on next year and wouldn't fear many teams.

sam1884 (UK) - Posts: 602 - 19/08/2019 09:39:02    2227365

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Inept second half performance last Sunday from Tyrone: Mickey Harte's future questioned on the Sunday Game
Inept second half performance yesterday by Kilkenny: no similar scrutiny of Brian Cody

football first (None) - Posts: 1155 - 19/08/2019 10:34:45    2227391

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Replying To football first:  "Inept second half performance last Sunday from Tyrone: Mickey Harte's future questioned on the Sunday Game
Inept second half performance yesterday by Kilkenny: no similar scrutiny of Brian Cody"
In some of these cases you must ask yourself "who is there to take over"? Like is there some great legend waiting to take over? I guess they have earned the benefit of the doubt.

Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 979 - 19/08/2019 11:53:23    2227422

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This is Kilkenny business

suckvalleypaddy (Galway) - Posts: 1351 - 19/08/2019 12:07:27    2227435

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Replying To Trump2020:  "In some of these cases you must ask yourself "who is there to take over"? Like is there some great legend waiting to take over? I guess they have earned the benefit of the doubt."
King Henry won the club all-ireland this year. Heir apparent.

Pope_Benedict (Galway) - Posts: 2352 - 19/08/2019 12:13:07    2227438

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I think if Cody goes kilkenny will lose a lot of their drive and pure determination in their hurling. Kilkenny were just an awesome power in hurling from 2000 until 2012 more or less unstoppable and since then they have lost a lot of their prowess and quality players. For what they have achieved since winning two all Irelands with a shadow of the former team is amazing and getting to another final is a lot down to Brian Cody because thé team is not there on paper.. They have 5 or 6 top hurlers now and the rest are good but not top class, I think they are 5th best team in the country at the moment on paper not second, but it's their drive is carrying them

preddan (Kildare) - Posts: 466 - 19/08/2019 12:46:42    2227458

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Replying To sam1884:  "Limerick is a great sporting county who's hurlers brought an All Ireland after 45 years. I thought they'd struggle this year as a result but they looked better than 2018. All teams can get caught in a knock out game and Limerick didn't have the luck of the officals at end of the KK game. To me Limerick are in a great place with the right manager to win multiple All Ireland's over the next decade. The biggest result for Tipp this year was KK catching Limerick, they must have thought they'd won the lotto. Tipp's path really opened up and Limerick will be kicking themselves but in reality Limerick are still sitting in a great place to kick on next year and wouldn't fear many teams."
Thanks Sam. That is a very fair assessment, but we must learn from mistakes that were made this year. BTW, this thread is a pure and utter joke. Brian Cody has shown huge generosity to clubs far outside Kilkenny and is a wonderful manager of his team. I really thought people would have more sense-but there you go

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 2394 - 19/08/2019 13:07:24    2227469

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Replying To sam1884:  "Limerick is a great sporting county who's hurlers brought an All Ireland after 45 years. I thought they'd struggle this year as a result but they looked better than 2018. All teams can get caught in a knock out game and Limerick didn't have the luck of the officals at end of the KK game. To me Limerick are in a great place with the right manager to win multiple All Ireland's over the next decade. The biggest result for Tipp this year was KK catching Limerick, they must have thought they'd won the lotto. Tipp's path really opened up and Limerick will be kicking themselves but in reality Limerick are still sitting in a great place to kick on next year and wouldn't fear many teams."
Would agree with a lot of that.Limerick have huge talent at their disposal which is part of the point I made.I agree that this Limerick squad will win more All-Irelands..I just think they're too good to have lost 3 out of 6 championship games this Summer.Agree that Kilkenny beating Limerick opened up the All-Ireland for Tipp.Tipp would not have fancied meeting Limerick again yesterday after what happened in the Munster Final.My early favourites for next year would be Tipp(Sheedy will want Tipp's first 2 in a row since 1965). and Limerick who's players and management will have learned a lot from this Summer and particularly from the Kilkenny game where they were caught by Kilkenny's early ferocity.

endgame (Roscommon) - Posts: 1235 - 19/08/2019 13:15:19    2227473

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Replying To Pope_Benedict:  "King Henry won the club all-ireland this year. Heir apparent."
Yes King Henry or DJ Carey I guess.

Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 979 - 19/08/2019 15:50:10    2227562

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Replying To preddan:  "I think if Cody goes kilkenny will lose a lot of their drive and pure determination in their hurling. Kilkenny were just an awesome power in hurling from 2000 until 2012 more or less unstoppable and since then they have lost a lot of their prowess and quality players. For what they have achieved since winning two all Irelands with a shadow of the former team is amazing and getting to another final is a lot down to Brian Cody because thé team is not there on paper.. They have 5 or 6 top hurlers now and the rest are good but not top class, I think they are 5th best team in the country at the moment on paper not second, but it's their drive is carrying them"
I'd agree with a lot of that. I would say we were good up to 2014. We were able to match Tipp blow-for-blow in that first final (just about) and win the replay because we had the weapons to match them (JJ Delaney and Jackie Tyrell in defence, Michael Fennelly midfield, Richie Power in forwards).

By the 2016 final we had lost those 4 (JJ and Power retired, Fennelly injured, JT sub) and hadn't adequately replaced them. Out of delusions of grandeur, we still thought we could match Tipp in a shoot-out and got spanked.

Yesterday I thought our performance was as good as to be expected until the sending off. Even when Tipp got the goal and then went a point up in the first half, I was still reasonably happy because I felt, like the Limerick game, there would be a spell where we'd get on top again and create chances while limiting Tipp at the other end as much as possible. But I don't think anyone can beat that Tipp team with 14 men, I just don't think it's possible. I know there's a lot of ould guff about how sometimes the team with 14 men are inspired to go on and win (as Tipp themselves did to Wexford in the SF). Not with this Tipp team and they way they use space and the extra man.

And of course the 2 goals after half time, which I thought were woefully soft from a defensive point of view (the first one a mix-up in the backs and the ball breaks to John McGrath, the second one John O'Dwyer left totally unmarked in the square, how does that happen?). The defensive unit has been shaky and conceding goals all year.

Now Tipp could afford to flood midfield with bodies and pick off points at will, while we played our zombie hurling long high balls into the FF line and probably made All-Stars of the Tipp FB line. I was thinking at half time our only hope of keeping the scoreline competitive or respectable would be to play low diagonal balls into Fennelly, or any other speedy forward we could get in there (although we don't have many), and have him try to get to the ball first and win some handy frees (as GAA refs tend to give to teams they've red carded). Nah, everything long and high. Peanuts to monkeys as Cyril Farrell once said. For all Cody's qualities he has no plan B for playing the game, and maybe why would he when plan A has worked so well for so long?

Even the minors yesterday were diabolical. All big lanky awkward slow tall ("BLAST") lads who couldn't rise the ball. There was one lad who was lining up to take a shot in the second half and I thought he was swinging in slow motion, a Galway lad came in from about 15 yards away to hook him. Galway were so much sharper and slicker.

There needs to be a serious rethink about the type of hurlers KK want to produce and represent the county, Cody has gone down the BLAST route for a long time and it's permeated down to underage level, and it's not working anymore.

ballydalane (Kilkenny) - Posts: 1095 - 19/08/2019 17:42:53    2227622

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I know it's extremely early but I find it interesting that the oddsmakers have Kilkenny 4th as far as favorites to win the 2020 All Ireland. Is this another sign that Cody overachieved?

Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 979 - 20/08/2019 11:54:41    2227834

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Here are the odds to win the All-Ireland Hurling Championship. Odds were taken from TitanBet as of 7/12/19:

Team Odds
Limerick +110
Tipperary+187
Cork +600
Wexford +750
Kilkenny +1100
Laois +8000

Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 979 - 21/08/2019 22:06:23    2228375

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Replying To Trump2020:  "Here are the odds to win the All-Ireland Hurling Championship. Odds were taken from TitanBet as of 7/12/19:

Team Odds
Limerick +110
Tipperary+187
Cork +600
Wexford +750
Kilkenny +1100
Laois +8000"
This is bizaare. Where are Galway? Surely they would be rated before Cork and Laois.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 2394 - 22/08/2019 10:39:17    2228448

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Replying To ballydalane:  "I'd agree with a lot of that. I would say we were good up to 2014. We were able to match Tipp blow-for-blow in that first final (just about) and win the replay because we had the weapons to match them (JJ Delaney and Jackie Tyrell in defence, Michael Fennelly midfield, Richie Power in forwards).

By the 2016 final we had lost those 4 (JJ and Power retired, Fennelly injured, JT sub) and hadn't adequately replaced them. Out of delusions of grandeur, we still thought we could match Tipp in a shoot-out and got spanked.

Yesterday I thought our performance was as good as to be expected until the sending off. Even when Tipp got the goal and then went a point up in the first half, I was still reasonably happy because I felt, like the Limerick game, there would be a spell where we'd get on top again and create chances while limiting Tipp at the other end as much as possible. But I don't think anyone can beat that Tipp team with 14 men, I just don't think it's possible. I know there's a lot of ould guff about how sometimes the team with 14 men are inspired to go on and win (as Tipp themselves did to Wexford in the SF). Not with this Tipp team and they way they use space and the extra man.

And of course the 2 goals after half time, which I thought were woefully soft from a defensive point of view (the first one a mix-up in the backs and the ball breaks to John McGrath, the second one John O'Dwyer left totally unmarked in the square, how does that happen?). The defensive unit has been shaky and conceding goals all year.

Now Tipp could afford to flood midfield with bodies and pick off points at will, while we played our zombie hurling long high balls into the FF line and probably made All-Stars of the Tipp FB line. I was thinking at half time our only hope of keeping the scoreline competitive or respectable would be to play low diagonal balls into Fennelly, or any other speedy forward we could get in there (although we don't have many), and have him try to get to the ball first and win some handy frees (as GAA refs tend to give to teams they've red carded). Nah, everything long and high. Peanuts to monkeys as Cyril Farrell once said. For all Cody's qualities he has no plan B for playing the game, and maybe why would he when plan A has worked so well for so long?

Even the minors yesterday were diabolical. All big lanky awkward slow tall ("BLAST") lads who couldn't rise the ball. There was one lad who was lining up to take a shot in the second half and I thought he was swinging in slow motion, a Galway lad came in from about 15 yards away to hook him. Galway were so much sharper and slicker.

There needs to be a serious rethink about the type of hurlers KK want to produce and represent the county, Cody has gone down the BLAST route for a long time and it's permeated down to underage level, and it's not working anymore."
I think three things were crucial, when comparing the Limerick/Tipp games
(1) The goal Fennelly got against Limerick struck off Quaid on the way in and could easily have fallen outside the goal line and have been scrambled clear. Well maybe. Against Tipp he got what appeared a more clear cut chance of a goal but John McGrath, a corner forward, just managed to hook him, with the regular defenders well away from the scene. Kilkenny would have gone eight or nine points at that moment and as in the Lk game would have got huge extra impetus.
(2) Adrian Mullen was played when he clearly was not right (Limerick did the same with Hannon). You should never ever play an unfit man when fully fit ones are available.
(3) And of course the putting off incident.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 2394 - 22/08/2019 10:50:46    2228453

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Replying To sam1884:  "Limerick is a great sporting county who's hurlers brought an All Ireland after 45 years. I thought they'd struggle this year as a result but they looked better than 2018. All teams can get caught in a knock out game and Limerick didn't have the luck of the officals at end of the KK game. To me Limerick are in a great place with the right manager to win multiple All Ireland's over the next decade. The biggest result for Tipp this year was KK catching Limerick, they must have thought they'd won the lotto. Tipp's path really opened up and Limerick will be kicking themselves but in reality Limerick are still sitting in a great place to kick on next year and wouldn't fear many teams."
Thanks Sam. I agree with your sentiments and if they keep the heads down we should be there or thereabouts again next year.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 2394 - 22/08/2019 10:54:09    2228455

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I blame talent show vote-ins for normalising the idea that any failure ( no matter how relative) should be swiftly followed by being shown the door

essmac (Tyrone) - Posts: 733 - 22/08/2019 11:39:20    2228472

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Replying To ballydalane:  "I'd agree with a lot of that. I would say we were good up to 2014. We were able to match Tipp blow-for-blow in that first final (just about) and win the replay because we had the weapons to match them (JJ Delaney and Jackie Tyrell in defence, Michael Fennelly midfield, Richie Power in forwards).

By the 2016 final we had lost those 4 (JJ and Power retired, Fennelly injured, JT sub) and hadn't adequately replaced them. Out of delusions of grandeur, we still thought we could match Tipp in a shoot-out and got spanked.

Yesterday I thought our performance was as good as to be expected until the sending off. Even when Tipp got the goal and then went a point up in the first half, I was still reasonably happy because I felt, like the Limerick game, there would be a spell where we'd get on top again and create chances while limiting Tipp at the other end as much as possible. But I don't think anyone can beat that Tipp team with 14 men, I just don't think it's possible. I know there's a lot of ould guff about how sometimes the team with 14 men are inspired to go on and win (as Tipp themselves did to Wexford in the SF). Not with this Tipp team and they way they use space and the extra man.

And of course the 2 goals after half time, which I thought were woefully soft from a defensive point of view (the first one a mix-up in the backs and the ball breaks to John McGrath, the second one John O'Dwyer left totally unmarked in the square, how does that happen?). The defensive unit has been shaky and conceding goals all year.

Now Tipp could afford to flood midfield with bodies and pick off points at will, while we played our zombie hurling long high balls into the FF line and probably made All-Stars of the Tipp FB line. I was thinking at half time our only hope of keeping the scoreline competitive or respectable would be to play low diagonal balls into Fennelly, or any other speedy forward we could get in there (although we don't have many), and have him try to get to the ball first and win some handy frees (as GAA refs tend to give to teams they've red carded). Nah, everything long and high. Peanuts to monkeys as Cyril Farrell once said. For all Cody's qualities he has no plan B for playing the game, and maybe why would he when plan A has worked so well for so long?

Even the minors yesterday were diabolical. All big lanky awkward slow tall ("BLAST") lads who couldn't rise the ball. There was one lad who was lining up to take a shot in the second half and I thought he was swinging in slow motion, a Galway lad came in from about 15 yards away to hook him. Galway were so much sharper and slicker.

There needs to be a serious rethink about the type of hurlers KK want to produce and represent the county, Cody has gone down the BLAST route for a long time and it's permeated down to underage level, and it's not working anymore."
Very balanced summary ballydalane. It's a long time since KK lost minor and senior by big margins.

thelongridge (Offaly) - Posts: 1215 - 22/08/2019 15:57:35    2228559

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Replying To Oldtourman:  "This is bizaare. Where are Galway? Surely they would be rated before Cork and Laois."
And what about Clare Waterford and Dublin?

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 906 - 22/08/2019 18:53:07    2228603

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Replying To Oldtourman:  "This is bizaare. Where are Galway? Surely they would be rated before Cork and Laois."
Maybe Galway, Clare, etc were out before the date of these odds.

Trump2020 (Galway) - Posts: 979 - 22/08/2019 23:36:18    2228663

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Replying To Pope_Benedict:  "King Henry won the club all-ireland this year. Heir apparent."
Eddie Brennan waiting in the long grass....

ClonardGael (Meath) - Posts: 75 - 23/08/2019 02:39:35    2228677

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