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http://hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=258671
How does this sytem work exactly ? Are proposals voted on by club delegates at county lebel before they are proposed? Do players, coaches and referees get a chance to have a say, suggest improvements, say proposals aren't practical?
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7337 - 25/07/2016 22:40:34
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Replying To GreenandRed: "http://hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=258671
How does this sytem work exactly ? Are proposals voted on by club delegates at county lebel before they are proposed? Do players, coaches and referees get a chance to have a say, suggest improvements, say proposals aren't practical?" Clubs have delegates, some one, some two, at annual county board convention proposals are put forward, discussed and voted on, most of these are local/club/county issues, but some will be national ones. County Boards then put forward motions/proposals, each county board has a number of votes. Other bodies have voting rights, referees, players and also GAA HQ there are other bodies as well. But really the only changes can be made at congress or if say a committee is delegated to deal with some specific issue - player burnt etc but they have to make submission for it to be voted on at Congress. Very hard to get consensus - you wouldn't want to be running a business this way.
arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4895 - 26/07/2016 09:55:20
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Replying To arock: "Clubs have delegates, some one, some two, at annual county board convention proposals are put forward, discussed and voted on, most of these are local/club/county issues, but some will be national ones. County Boards then put forward motions/proposals, each county board has a number of votes. Other bodies have voting rights, referees, players and also GAA HQ there are other bodies as well. But really the only changes can be made at congress or if say a committee is delegated to deal with some specific issue - player burnt etc but they have to make submission for it to be voted on at Congress. Very hard to get consensus - you wouldn't want to be running a business this way." Sounds like a lot of businesses. The player, referees and coaches, those who are most involved in games, are the workers. They could easily tell you where problems are and suggest improvements and what could or could not work.
Central Council and County Boards are like management, engineers, safety, quality people. They have an idea what goes on on the factory floor from a few walks around. Some of them do know what happens and realise the value of getting feedback from workers on the factory floor. But in most cases they introduce rules and regulations based on their perception and the workers have to live with them. A bit more communication from top to bottom and back would lead to a more efficient business.
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7337 - 26/07/2016 10:37:41
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Issue the GAA has is that its too democratic despite the keyboard warriors saying otherwise.
Then again you do not want a situation like in rugby were rules and interpretations are changed at the drop of a hat.
witnof (Dublin) - Posts: 1604 - 26/07/2016 10:45:01
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Issue the GAA has is that its too democratic despite the keyboard warriors saying otherwise.
Then again you do not want a situation like in rugby were rules and interpretations are changed at the drop of a hat.
witnof (Dublin) - Posts:964 - 26/07/2016 10:45:01 the laws in rugby are not changed at the drop of a hat. They are regularly clarified. Like laws in any case or situation.
ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 26/07/2016 22:16:41
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Replying To witnof: "Issue the GAA has is that its too democratic despite the keyboard warriors saying otherwise.
Then again you do not want a situation like in rugby were rules and interpretations are changed at the drop of a hat." How can it be too democratic? Do you mean that there needs to be leaders to eventually be decisive and make changes rather than wait for all GAA members to decide on things?
I'm asking because I don't know but think that too many rules and regulations are introduced by non-playing suits on county boards and central council and not enough heed is paid to players, referees and coaches opinions. That's my perception, could be completely wrong.
I don't like the proposed plan for A and B championship that will keep stronger counties strong and weaker counties weak, bar a few that progress from A to B. I think they should scrap the league and try to improve standards of so-called lesser counties. A treehugger idea but have 4 divisions of 2 teams from the current divisions to eventually have a more even level of standards of football. Maybe players from division 3 and 4 counties would prefer a B championship but sure how can we know ?
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7337 - 26/07/2016 23:29:45
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Replying To GreenandRed: "How can it be too democratic? Do you mean that there needs to be leaders to eventually be decisive and make changes rather than wait for all GAA members to decide on things?
I'm asking because I don't know but think that too many rules and regulations are introduced by non-playing suits on county boards and central council and not enough heed is paid to players, referees and coaches opinions. That's my perception, could be completely wrong.
I don't like the proposed plan for A and B championship that will keep stronger counties strong and weaker counties weak, bar a few that progress from A to B. I think they should scrap the league and try to improve standards of so-called lesser counties. A treehugger idea but have 4 divisions of 2 teams from the current divisions to eventually have a more even level of standards of football. Maybe players from division 3 and 4 counties would prefer a B championship but sure how can we know ?" We actually do know.
They specifically don't want a B championship.
The suits were informed of this, yet still tables the B championship motion.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4210 - 27/07/2016 05:25:46
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Sure we know Division 4 players don't want a B Championship. The B Championship option never made it to congress. It was a fluid B Championship option. Avoiding Division 4 or making the provincial finals offered routes to the qualifiers. Division 4 counties would still be involved in the provincial championship. I think it was a decent idea.
If the proposed B Championship was in place this year, Westmeath based on league would have been involved but their provincial final achievement would have seen Louth enter the B Championship instead. Here's how all the B Championship level counties got on in the All-Ireland qualifiers:
Louth Q1 by Derry
Limerick Q2 by Cork
Wexford Q1 by Fermanagh
Carlow Q2 by Cavan
Wicklow Q1 by Carlow
Waterford Q1 by Leitrim
Leitrim Q2 by Sligo
London Q1 by Offaly
It's debatable how a B Championship might have helped them. I would argue the finalists might gain momentum for the following championships. Counter arguments are understandable as well.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7823 - 27/07/2016 08:49:01
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Replying To legendzxix: "Sure we know Division 4 players don't want a B Championship. The B Championship option never made it to congress. It was a fluid B Championship option. Avoiding Division 4 or making the provincial finals offered routes to the qualifiers. Division 4 counties would still be involved in the provincial championship. I think it was a decent idea.
If the proposed B Championship was in place this year, Westmeath based on league would have been involved but their provincial final achievement would have seen Louth enter the B Championship instead. Here's how all the B Championship level counties got on in the All-Ireland qualifiers:
Louth Q1 by Derry
Limerick Q2 by Cork
Wexford Q1 by Fermanagh
Carlow Q2 by Cavan
Wicklow Q1 by Carlow
Waterford Q1 by Leitrim
Leitrim Q2 by Sligo
London Q1 by Offaly
It's debatable how a B Championship might have helped them. I would argue the finalists might gain momentum for the following championships. Counter arguments are understandable as well." The finalists would be the only ones to gain though. Probably they'd drop back down to the B standard within a few years. This wouldn't help the so-called weaker counties in the long run.
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7337 - 27/07/2016 10:35:44
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Replying To GreenandRed: "The finalists would be the only ones to gain though. Probably they'd drop back down to the B standard within a few years. This wouldn't help the so-called weaker counties in the long run." It'll be healthy competition if the same teams aren't involved every year.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7823 - 27/07/2016 15:25:28
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Replying To legendzxix: "It'll be healthy competition if the same teams aren't involved every year." A healthy competition maybe, but a poor standard of football it will be and will remain. The Sam Maguire won't be for an All Ireland Football championship with only half of the counties eligible.
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7337 - 27/07/2016 19:50:35
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Replying To GreenandRed: "A healthy competition maybe, but a poor standard of football it will be and will remain. The Sam Maguire won't be for an All Ireland Football championship with only half of the counties eligible." Not everyone is for it and that's fair enough.
All counties would still enter the provincial championships. The 8 lowest non-provincial finalists from the league would be entering the second tier. Anyways the motion didn't make it to congress. Enough said. Just reckon myself it was a good idea. It was essentially setting a standard without being too restrictive. The qualifiers ran smoothly for a few years over 3 rounds. They were right to try and remove a qualifying round. This time they were offering a carrot for winning the second tier but again sure the motion never saw the light of day!
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7823 - 27/07/2016 20:56:05
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I did a draw of 4 by 8 team groups.
Seeding teams by this years provincial championship performance and getting an even spread from each province across the groups.
A competition with 4 from each group qualifying looks interesting.
Group A
Dublin
Donegal
Clare
Mayo
Derry
Longford
Waterford
Louth
3 big games in that group. Derry, Clare, Longford and to a lesser extent Louth would all have ambitions on that 4th spot.
Group B
Kerry
Westmeath
Monaghan
Sligo
London
Offaly
Down
Carlow
Weaker group. Kerry, Monaghan you'd fancy plus 2 from Westmeath, Down, Sligo and Offaly
Group C
Tyrone
Roscommon
Cork
Kildare
Laois
Wicklow
Limerick
Armagh
Another tight group. You'd fancy Tyrone and Cork the strongest Wicklow and Limerick possibly weak and not much between anyone else.
Group D
Galway
Tipp
Meath
Cavan
Fermanagh
Antrim
Leitrim
Wexford
Another interesting group. Not much between Galway, Meath, Tipp, Cavan and Fermanagh. Wexford and maybe Antrim wouldn't consider themselves no hopers.
Even with the current disparities in strength you've still got a really interesting competition.
You play that competition in the 9 weeks up to May bank holiday.
Each group getting a 2 week break period roughly in the middle of their schedule to play off a club championship round.
You have 16 teams left in this competition at the start of the provincial series.
2 more rounds of this competition are played in parallel to the provincial championships. These get completed over 12 weeks up to the August bank holiday.
You'll have 4 teams left plus 4 provincial champions.
If a team is left standing in both competitions they qualify directly for the All Ireland semi-finals.
The teams that remain in only 1 competition play a playoff round with the winners completing the All Ireland semi final places.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4210 - 27/07/2016 20:57:54
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