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It seems to me from talking to people (and from posts to this website) a lot of GAA people are unhappy with the way Gaelic football is evolving in the last 5 to 10 years, mainly people not liking the massed defence approach and the increased level of handpassing (many of them lateral/backwards) and the decreasing level of kicking.
Just say for a minute that the GAA decided they were going to amend the rules to try and move the game back more towards a more traditional form of the game what rule changes do people on here think might actually achieve this and what rule changes might have unforeseen consequences or would not practically work?.
With the increased levels of player conditioning and fitness at inter county level is the massed defence approach now inevitable and will any rule changes will only have minimal impact ?
To me the most obvious rule changes the GAA could bring in if they wanted to go down this route would be a minimum number of players in oppositions half for kickouts, a minimum distance a kickout must travel and a limit on the number of consecutive handpasses.
Would the idea of a limit put on consecutive handpasses work in practice ?, or even would a rule that a player receiving a handpass cannot handpass it on be workable and would it make current massed defence tactics far less effective ? .
Any thoughts ?
Maybe someone here could think outside the box and come up with a less obvious rule change which would weaken the effectiveness of the current defensive tactics in inter county Gaelic football.
bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1348 - 18/07/2016 18:43:14
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I believe the strict enforcement of the 4 steps rule would make a real difference as it would give defenders a genuine chance of dispossessing their opponent. Instead the accepted rule now seems to be you can take 4 steps into a tackle and 4 steps out, making a clean dispossession very difficult and this encourages the running game.
Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 18/07/2016 19:20:57
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Replying To bdbuddah: "It seems to me from talking to people (and from posts to this website) a lot of GAA people are unhappy with the way Gaelic football is evolving in the last 5 to 10 years, mainly people not liking the massed defence approach and the increased level of handpassing (many of them lateral/backwards) and the decreasing level of kicking.
Just say for a minute that the GAA decided they were going to amend the rules to try and move the game back more towards a more traditional form of the game what rule changes do people on here think might actually achieve this and what rule changes might have unforeseen consequences or would not practically work?.
With the increased levels of player conditioning and fitness at inter county level is the massed defence approach now inevitable and will any rule changes will only have minimal impact ?
To me the most obvious rule changes the GAA could bring in if they wanted to go down this route would be a minimum number of players in oppositions half for kickouts, a minimum distance a kickout must travel and a limit on the number of consecutive handpasses.
Would the idea of a limit put on consecutive handpasses work in practice ?, or even would a rule that a player receiving a handpass cannot handpass it on be workable and would it make current massed defence tactics far less effective ? .
Any thoughts ?
Maybe someone here could think outside the box and come up with a less obvious rule change which would weaken the effectiveness of the current defensive tactics in inter county Gaelic football." I don't see how a limit on hand passes would help. How else are you supposed to beat when they have 15 players inside their 45? It's just punishing the attacking team even more by limiting their weapons.
benjyyy (Donegal) - Posts: 1422 - 18/07/2016 19:26:55
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Dear Lord! did the soccer world demand a list of rule changes because Barca thought up a short passing game that most teams couldn't handle? nope, they let time prevail and now teams have worked out how to beat it and its not the force it was a few years back.
This concept of changing rules because some counties can't move with the times is embarrassing. Other sports would laugh at it. Everything is sensationalised in the GAA, it needs to catch a grip!
SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2385 - 18/07/2016 19:36:23
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It seems to me from talking to people (and from posts to this website) a lot of GAA people are unhappy with the way Gaelic football is evolving in the last 5 to 10 years, mainly people not liking the massed defence approach and the increased level of handpassing (many of them lateral/ backwards) and the decreasing level of kicking.
Just say for a minute that the GAA decided they were going to amend the rules to try and move the game back more towards a more traditional form of the game what rule changes do people on here think might actually achieve this and what rule changes might have unforeseen consequences or would not practically work?
With the increased levels of player conditioning and fitness at inter county level is the massed defence approach now inevitable and will any rule changes will only have minimal impact?
To me the most obvious rule changes the GAA could bring in if they wanted to go down this route would be a minimum number of players in oppositions half for kickouts, a minimum distance a kickout must travel and a limit on the number of consecutive handpasses.
Would the idea of a limit put on consecutive handpasses work in practice? or even would a rule that a player receiving a handpass cannot handpass it on be workable and would it make current massed defence tactics far less effective?
Any thoughts?
Maybe someone here could think outside the box and come up with a less obvious rule change which would weaken the effectiveness of the current defensive tactics in inter county Gaelic football.
bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts:169 - 18/07/2016 18:43:14What would you define as a more traditional form of the game? There is a rule already about kickouts is there not? They must travel at least 13 metres. I would limit handpasses but how many do you limit it to?
I don't see how a limit on hand passes would help. How else are you supposed to beat when they have 15 players inside their 45? It's just punishing the attacking team even more by limiting their weapons.
benjyyy (Donegal) - Posts:1251 - 18/07/2016 19:26:55Stop teams from putting 15 players inside their 45 then. Make it a rule you must keep at least 1/2/3/4(whatever) number of players up the far end of the pitch.
ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 18/07/2016 20:31:55
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Agree in theory with the amount of players that should be allowed in one half but how would it be monitored ?
Would it be too difficult ?
TheRightStuff (Donegal) - Posts: 1688 - 18/07/2016 21:14:07
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Replying To benjyyy: "I don't see how a limit on hand passes would help. How else are you supposed to beat when they have 15 players inside their 45? It's just punishing the attacking team even more by limiting their weapons." Kicking is a harder and for many people a more attractive skill than hand passing. Also this rule might make the current tactics involving short passing between players between both 45m lines less effective as it is harder to kick a ball to a man near by than to handpass and make it more effective to move the ball quicker to the attack. If the ball is being moved quicker into the attack it should make more sense you would need more attacking players further up the field. The idea here is for more kicking and to push managers to adopt more attacking style of play.
bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1348 - 18/07/2016 22:07:45
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Replying To SaffronDon: "Dear Lord! did the soccer world demand a list of rule changes because Barca thought up a short passing game that most teams couldn't handle? nope, they let time prevail and now teams have worked out how to beat it and its not the force it was a few years back.
This concept of changing rules because some counties can't move with the times is embarrassing. Other sports would laugh at it. Everything is sensationalised in the GAA, it needs to catch a grip!" In the 1970's a try in rugby was worth 3 points, this was changed to 4 points and later to 5 points to discourage teams from trying to win by drawing penalties and to encourage teams to attempt to attack and score trys which was felt was what the game was suspoased to be about. Rugby league in the early days moved from 15 to 13 a side as they felt more space was needed as there was little space when professionalism improved the fitness of players. When soccer got overly negative the back pass rule to goalies was changed and the off side rule was tweeked. The fitness of players has went through the roof and the approach to the games is much more thorough in the last 15 years, maybe the rules need to keep up.
bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1348 - 18/07/2016 22:18:39
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Replying To ormondbannerman: "It seems to me from talking to people (and from posts to this website) a lot of GAA people are unhappy with the way Gaelic football is evolving in the last 5 to 10 years, mainly people not liking the massed defence approach and the increased level of handpassing (many of them lateral/ backwards) and the decreasing level of kicking.
Just say for a minute that the GAA decided they were going to amend the rules to try and move the game back more towards a more traditional form of the game what rule changes do people on here think might actually achieve this and what rule changes might have unforeseen consequences or would not practically work?
With the increased levels of player conditioning and fitness at inter county level is the massed defence approach now inevitable and will any rule changes will only have minimal impact?
To me the most obvious rule changes the GAA could bring in if they wanted to go down this route would be a minimum number of players in oppositions half for kickouts, a minimum distance a kickout must travel and a limit on the number of consecutive handpasses.
Would the idea of a limit put on consecutive handpasses work in practice? or even would a rule that a player receiving a handpass cannot handpass it on be workable and would it make current massed defence tactics far less effective?
Any thoughts?
Maybe someone here could think outside the box and come up with a less obvious rule change which would weaken the effectiveness of the current defensive tactics in inter county Gaelic football.
bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts:169 - 18/07/2016 18:43:14What would you define as a more traditional form of the game? There is a rule already about kickouts is there not? They must travel at least 13 metres. I would limit handpasses but how many do you limit it to?
I don't see how a limit on hand passes would help. How else are you supposed to beat when they have 15 players inside their 45? It's just punishing the attacking team even more by limiting their weapons.
benjyyy (Donegal) - Posts:1251 - 18/07/2016 19:26:55Stop teams from putting 15 players inside their 45 then. Make it a rule you must keep at least 1/2/3/4(whatever) number of players up the far end of the pitch." I would define a more traditional game as one with more kicking, not having forwards way outnumbered by defenders and quicker movement of the ball upfield to the scoring area. If they limited the number of hand passes what number is hard to say.
The more you reduce it maybe the more you force teams to get better at kicking. An inter county team has the pick of the best players and could probably cope easier with a smaller limit where as a club team with a much smaller pick of players would want a higher limit.
bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1348 - 18/07/2016 22:46:57
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Replying To TheRightStuff: "Agree in theory with the amount of players that should be allowed in one half but how would it be monitored ?
Would it be too difficult ?" I doubt it could be practically monitored in an ongoing way through a match but you could make this a requirement for kick outs quiet easily. It may then be difficult for a defensive team to get these extra players back in defence in time to block off an attack.
bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1348 - 18/07/2016 22:55:12
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The main problem and the problem that is causing all the other problems in the game is the blanket defence. Excessive hand passing is because of the blanket defence.
Put a restriction and say 4 out of 15 players (or if the game were to go to 13 a side as I would like 3 out of 13) have to stay within the 45 of the goal they are attacking at all times it would open up the game encourage more kick passing because there would be more space to kick the ball into.
The first change should be to put a limit of people going into the defensive part of the field.
After that you could introduce a ban on a certain number of consecutive hand passes but you can't restrict hand passing without first eliminating the blanket defence.
These changes would improve the game and make it more enjoyable to watch.
uibhfhaili1986 (Offaly) - Posts: 1296 - 18/07/2016 23:16:43
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Replying To SaffronDon: "Dear Lord! did the soccer world demand a list of rule changes because Barca thought up a short passing game that most teams couldn't handle? nope, they let time prevail and now teams have worked out how to beat it and its not the force it was a few years back.
This concept of changing rules because some counties can't move with the times is embarrassing. Other sports would laugh at it. Everything is sensationalised in the GAA, it needs to catch a grip!" the reason people want the rules changed is not because they can't cope with them it's because they don't want to watch a game which consists almost exclusively of defensive play and hand passing.
uibhfhaili1986 (Offaly) - Posts: 1296 - 19/07/2016 05:40:56
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1 - Reduce the team size by say 4 per team
2 - Increase the half length by about 10-15 mins
3 - Have it that you can't handle the ball
4 - If it is a draw after extra time, have a penalty shoot out instead of a replay.
5 - Do away with points and have goals only
6 - If the ball goes out over the end line off a defending player, instead of taking a kick in from the 45, take the ball out to where the end line and sideline meet and hit it in from there.
Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 19/07/2016 08:17:45
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Replying To SaffronDon: "Dear Lord! did the soccer world demand a list of rule changes because Barca thought up a short passing game that most teams couldn't handle? nope, they let time prevail and now teams have worked out how to beat it and its not the force it was a few years back.
This concept of changing rules because some counties can't move with the times is embarrassing. Other sports would laugh at it. Everything is sensationalised in the GAA, it needs to catch a grip!" They did remove passing back to the keeper to stop similarly defensive tactics to be fair. They also introduced the offside rule to keep people from crowding in around the goals all the time.
Brolly's suggestion is similar to the offside rule. I think it holds promise.
TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 19/07/2016 09:40:44
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lol - the irony of my post has obviously escaped some poor unfortunate.... :-)
Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 19/07/2016 11:27:37
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lol - the irony of my post has obviously escaped some poor unfortunate.... :-)
Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 19/07/2016 11:34:18
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I've come around to the idea that the rules need to be tweaked.
I think the focus on the handpass is wrong.
A lot of the really boring play at the weekend was from lateral kick passing between the 45s. This is because there's little incentive for a team to try to win the ball in the middle third.
This is where the focus of any rule changes need to lie.
Soma's idea of properly policing the number of steps a player takes could incentivise teams pushing out more.
Bringing in a 2 point rule for long scores could force teams to try to defend higher also.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4225 - 19/07/2016 11:55:47
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Replying To uibhfhaili1986: "The main problem and the problem that is causing all the other problems in the game is the blanket defence. Excessive hand passing is because of the blanket defence.
Put a restriction and say 4 out of 15 players (or if the game were to go to 13 a side as I would like 3 out of 13) have to stay within the 45 of the goal they are attacking at all times it would open up the game encourage more kick passing because there would be more space to kick the ball into.
The first change should be to put a limit of people going into the defensive part of the field.
After that you could introduce a ban on a certain number of consecutive hand passes but you can't restrict hand passing without first eliminating the blanket defence.
These changes would improve the game and make it more enjoyable to watch." I defiantly agree that the biggest issue for me and many other people in the way Gaelic football is played nowadays is the blanket defence and then the slow movement of the ball up the field with short passing.
I also would agree that forcing a team to keep players situated in opposing teams half (or inside 45 m line as some have said on this website) would be of big benefit to the game but practically I could see this being enforced quiet easily for kickouts but in general play this might be hard for referees/ officials to enforce and for players to comply with.
If you stopped teams setting up overly defensively at kickout time together with limiting handpassing (which would make handpassing moves up the field less effective) maybe this would make it more effective for teams to play more attack minded football where the ball is moved quicker?
bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1348 - 19/07/2016 11:58:58
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Perhaps a good place to start would be stop the 'swarm' tackle. No need to change the rules, just apply the rules that are there. In a one on one situation the ref will penalise a player if the put a hand on the player in possession, to ether pull him, push him, to try to knock the ball away. Yet, in the swarm tackle, they stand back and allow the tacklers to pull, push, etc the man with the ball and then penalise him for over carrying. If this was referreed properly it would open up the game considerably and maybe cut down on the system of having so many players back to do this type of tackling
neverright (Roscommon) - Posts: 1648 - 19/07/2016 12:10:52
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Replying To uibhfhaili1986: "The main problem and the problem that is causing all the other problems in the game is the blanket defence. Excessive hand passing is because of the blanket defence.
Put a restriction and say 4 out of 15 players (or if the game were to go to 13 a side as I would like 3 out of 13) have to stay within the 45 of the goal they are attacking at all times it would open up the game encourage more kick passing because there would be more space to kick the ball into.
The first change should be to put a limit of people going into the defensive part of the field.
After that you could introduce a ban on a certain number of consecutive hand passes but you can't restrict hand passing without first eliminating the blanket defence.
These changes would improve the game and make it more enjoyable to watch." Fair enough congress pass a rule that 4 players have to remain in their own half. Now I'm playing wing half forward and there are three men inside from my team and i'm the only fella on the 40. My man takes off on a gallop and i can't follow him as I have to remain in the opposition half. Now this man gets the ball and puts in the back of the net because no one is marking him. From a coaches or fans point of view how do you work on stopping that?
gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4971 - 19/07/2016 12:37:12
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