Treatment of Clare and Dublin Camogie Ladies a complete and utter disgrace , now I know not many on here give a toss about women playing GAA , but has nothing to do with anyting other than Respect , Justice , Common sense down right fair play .if you had a sister or a daughter in either squad you would be livid .
I know one of the players , she is in college , holds down a part time job , and commits to savage training , and for what ? A toss of a coin , you couldnt make it up .
Camoige Association should hold their heads in shame , as for county boards of both counties very very brave decision , its rare that you see people standing up for what they believe in .

Damothedub (Dublin) - Posts: 5193 - 29/07/2015 08:49:53    1760552

Well said Damo. Here's hoping the other counties involved follow suit and get behind their fellow players. It was a very brave decision by both the Dublin and Clare County Boards.

I work with one of the panel, and she's visibly gutted this morning but she said it had to be done. They couldn't stand by and let their future in the competition be decided by a coin toss. Farcical stuff.

CroiGorm (Dublin) - Posts: 1547 - 29/07/2015 09:20:36    1760571

Great to see. viva la revolution!!!!

DoireCityFC (Derry) - Posts: 1580 - 29/07/2015 09:32:29    1760580

Total dictatorship at work from the Camogie association.
Shameful that these people are presiding of such a shambles.
Right decision and fair play to both teams.

SLLY (Dublin) - Posts: 463 - 29/07/2015 09:32:52    1760581

Well said
Cork and Tipp panels will probably follow suit in support of Clare and Dublin girls. In my own club it does affect a few girls and this really is no way to decide anything other than barstool argument and it is certainly no way to treat these players after months of dedicated training and sacrifice.

Yes all counties agreed to this - maybe the lesson is read the small print.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4896 - 29/07/2015 09:36:49    1760585

I can only imagine the work both sets of players, officials & boards have put into the year.

The camogie board are obviously saying that the rule was there from the beginning, but in modern sport that is a terrible way to separate teams. Easy way to avoid it is to have further separators - e.g. after the head to head tie breaker, have score difference, if they are level on that have it as highest number of goals scored.

ANYTHING - but not a coin toss.

In this case, the fairest option is a play off. I think both Clare & Dublin are spot on, if they are not allowed to play for the 1/4 final spot then neither go forward.

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6480 - 29/07/2015 09:40:04    1760586

Easy way to avoid it is to have further separators - e.g. after the head to head tie breaker, have score difference, if they are level on that have it as highest number of goals scored.

That would be the obvious decision alright. Dublin finished on score diff of -6, Clare on -13 so Dublin are ahead of Clare in the table.

CroiGorm (Dublin) - Posts: 1547 - 29/07/2015 10:01:40    1760603

Shows the Camogie hierarchy for the dinosaurs they are

valley84 (Westmeath) - Posts: 1890 - 29/07/2015 10:04:06    1760607

Total dictatorship at work from the Camogie association.
Shameful that these people are presiding of such a shambles.
Right decision and fair play to both teams.

While I don't agree in the slightest with the proposal to toss a coin to determine if a team progress or are eliminated from a competition, it is very unfair and incorrect to call this decision a dictatorship as the proposal was accepted by the county boards last year. It was obviously only expected that this would be used to determine placings in the Group if 2 teams finished joint top etc and wasn't expected to determine who would get eliminated. As an aside the toss of a coin/drawing lots has been used or has been in place for much bigger sporting events e.g. the drawing of lots determined that Ireland finished 2nd in their Group ahead of the Netherlands in Italia 90. As 3 teams progressed from that particular Group the elimination of a team was avoided. In the African Cup of Nations (Soccer) this year Mali were eliminated on the drawing of lots.
For me this is a case of the Dublin & Clare County Boards as well as any other county board that would not wish to be in a similar position being asleep at the wheel.

ExiledinDublin (Mayo) - Posts: 131 - 29/07/2015 10:15:44    1760619

On no less a stage than the 1968 UEFA European Football Championship semifinal between Italy and the USSR, the match ended 1-1 after extra time. Italy went through on the toss of a coin. (Interestingly, Italy also drew 1-1 after extra time in their final against Yugoslavia. This time, the match was replayed and Italy won 2-0.)

Now, I agree with everyone who says that the toss of a coin is a terrible way to settle positions on the same points in a league table. They could have used anything else; they could even have legislated as follows: "If everything else is level, teams will be ranked based on their performance in the previous year's Championship". That would be merit-based, and even if it was 2014's results deciding 2015's outcome, all teams would know what they had to do and the relative rankings of their opponents before a ball was pucked.

However, there are two questions here. Firstly, whose bright idea was it to include such a rule in a competition? Who agreed to this? From what I read in this thread, the counties themselves had input into the process; or at least, they agreed to it or voted on it or something. Surely they can't now be self-righteous about it (if indeed that's what they are)?

Secondly, did no-one see this coming? Was it never ever ever a possibility that two teams might end up on the same points such that one team might qualify and the other team might not? As above, we can all agree that a coin toss is a terrible way to determine such critical league positions, but up until last week, has everyone been completely blind to the possibility that such a thing could happen as has happened with Dublin and Clare? Come on.

Tacaí Liatroma (Leitrim) - Posts: 1030 - 29/07/2015 11:21:40    1760657

Fair play to Dublin and Clare. Could not believe that the Camogie authorities would turn down their appeal for a play off. Their attitude of "it's the rules and we won't budge" smaack of dictatorship with complete disregard for the counties involved. What an absolute joke of deciding with the toss of a coin who goes forward to the Quarterfinals

lilywhite1 (Kildare) - Posts: 2990 - 29/07/2015 11:43:28    1760678

Total dictatorship at work from the Camogie association. Shameful that these people are presiding of such a shambles. Right decision and fair play to both teams. While I don't agree in the slightest with the proposal to toss a coin to determine if a team progress or are eliminated from a competition, it is very unfair and incorrect to call this decision a dictatorship as the proposal was accepted by the county boards last year. It was obviously only expected that this would be used to determine placings in the Group if 2 teams finished joint top etc and wasn't expected to determine who would get eliminated. As an aside the toss of a coin/drawing lots has been used or has been in place for much bigger sporting events e.g. the drawing of lots determined that Ireland finished 2nd in their Group ahead of the Netherlands in Italia 90. As 3 teams progressed from that particular Group the elimination of a team was avoided. In the African Cup of Nations (Soccer) this year Mali were eliminated on the drawing of lots. For me this is a case of the Dublin & Clare County Boards as well as any other county board that would not wish to be in a similar position being asleep at the wheel.

ExiledinDublin (Mayo) - 29/07/2015 10:15:44
While there may well have been cases in the past I would suggest that these have now been seen for what they are which is unsporting solutions to sporting events. This is the bottom line and for an association to suggest it cannot see the logic of a playoff for players who have sacrificed so much I think is disrespectful in the extreme. If you don't like the term dictatorship that's fair enough but it is utterly unfair to all involved and call it what you want it needs to be reversed by those who should see it for what it is.

SLLY (Dublin) - Posts: 463 - 29/07/2015 11:46:56    1760682

I salute these players and Camoige Association should hang their heads in shame. Now whilst the counties should have objected to it at the start before a ball was even thrown in they failed to look outside the box and say what if this scenario did happen but whoever came up with this idea is an idiot.
The players and county boards stance is nice to see. How stupid do the Camoige Association look now.
I'm not too sure will other counties follow similar if they are not affected but if there are deeper issues with the Association other may show some solidarity and stand with the Clare & Dublin players.

WildPundit (Tipperary) - Posts: 1709 - 29/07/2015 11:49:41    1760684

Tacaí Liatroma didnt something similar happen with ireland and holland

DoireCityFC (Derry) - Posts: 1580 - 29/07/2015 11:56:18    1760691

Where has the common sense gone?? Fair play to both teams though I don't think the others should pull out.

Brolly (Monaghan) - Posts: 4472 - 29/07/2015 12:05:24    1760695

Congrats to both counties for digging in on this. Total lack of common sense not to mention respect for the players involved. Would agree with comments as to how something this narrow could be used to determine the winners. You could count any number of variables in a game or league to decide who wins/loses e.g. points difference, total scores, number of goals, red/yellow cards, frees conceded, wide count, sidelines etc.
Would also question why it wasn't questioned before the competition started by the counties involved. Maybe it was and they just got the usual brush off or were ignored.

moylagh (Meath) - Posts: 484 - 29/07/2015 12:06:09    1760697

Fairplay to both Dublin and Clare. Disgraceful the way the GAA has handled this. Flipping of a coin to decide a championship game. If this happened in the hurling championship there would be up roar. Women have just as much a right to play GAA/ Sports. As men do

TheBlaBoi (Waterford) - Posts: 24 - 29/07/2015 12:07:24    1760699

Hear hear Damo!

realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8592 - 29/07/2015 12:08:05    1760700

Here to show my Support to DUBLIN AND CLARE. It is time people stood up to be counted. I hope WEXFORD don't accept a place in Championship. I hope y own County GALWAY stands with them.

SAMMYTHEBULL (Galway) - Posts: 1646 - 29/07/2015 12:15:26    1760708

29/07/2015 11:56:18
DoireCityFC
County: Derry
Posts: 640

1760691
Tacaí Liatroma didnt something similar happen with ireland and holland

Yes and no. Yes, their positions in the group were decided by the drawing of lots. But crucially, both teams had already qualified. Therefore, drawing of lots was not used to send one of the teams home, but merely to decide second and third place in the group (and therefore who played who in the next round).

Tacaí Liatroma (Leitrim) - Posts: 1030 - 29/07/2015 12:19:48    1760711