Bluewave
The Master the Gaa president has spoken it ain't going to happen end of debate for now I'm afraid.

Why does that constitute the end of the debate?

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 05/03/2013 15:39:09    1343342

Lads the debate only ends when we all agree with the Master and stop asking questions he doesn't have any answers for!

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13707 - 05/03/2013 16:10:23    1343367

MesAmis
County: Dublin
Posts: 5442

1343367 Lads the debate only ends when we all agree with the Master and stop asking questions he doesn't have any answers for!
_______

I agree with the master so and have no questions for him not to answer.

The GAA president was very honest and respectful in his remarks.

It will be OUR decision

Beelzedub (Dublin) - Posts: 480 - 05/03/2013 16:15:57    1343373

I answered your questions mesamis, several times. You refused to answer mine. So I continued the debate with people who are capable of carrying one out in an honest manner.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 05/03/2013 16:22:23    1343380

Beelzedub
County: Dublin
Posts: 395

MesAmis
County: Dublin
Posts: 5442

Lads the debate only ends when we all agree with the Master and stop asking questions he doesn't have any answers for!
_______

I agree with the master so and have no questions for him not to answer.

The GAA president was very honest and respectful in his remarks.

It will be OUR decision

Surely it'd be up to the rest of us to accept it too though?

As with Galway and Antrim entering the Leinster hurling championships, if Dublin ever did want to enter two teams at any time wouldn't the rest of Leinster have to agree to it, or would it be up to congress?

if_in_doubt (Kildare) - Posts: 3685 - 05/03/2013 16:29:05    1343390

The Master

Asking questions about your idea is discussing it with you.

Just because you say something is true doesn't make it so. You never adequately explained how your plan works or why it is necessary.

You chopped and changed from 4 to 2, saying we'd dominate to saying that didn't matter!

You said a split could be done fairly then claimed not to know how it could be done.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13707 - 05/03/2013 16:31:33    1343394

Couldnt care less...

Its never going to happen.. either way

We will not be forced and that's the point.

Beelzedub (Dublin) - Posts: 480 - 05/03/2013 16:35:41    1343395

If in doubt

It'd be our decision to ever initiate a split. That's what I took from the President's comments.

I'm sure it could only be done with the agreement of other Leinster counties, as well as the rest of the country.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13707 - 05/03/2013 16:39:25    1343401

Funny so many having a go at Colm O'R for mentioning an idea that was in fact put forward by a National Committee as a response to Dublin's suggestion that they be constituted as a Province.

Now what could that Dublin idea of Dublin becoming a Province mean except it, the Province of Dublin, would be constituted by a number of Counties, Fingal who field their own Hurling team being one , South County Dublin, being another !!!

Liam O'Neill is being a bit evasive in saying he does not favour the idea the Dubs themselves first started.

KELF (Kildare) - Posts: 775 - 05/03/2013 16:59:32    1343426

MesAmis
County: Dublin
Posts: 5445

If in doubt

It'd be our decision to ever initiate a split. That's what I took from the President's comments.

I'm sure it could only be done with the agreement of other Leinster counties, as well as the rest of the country.

Can't see it ever happening anyways but it could get fairly messy (good craic on here though) if Dublin went for the split and then the Leinster Council and congress rejected it.

I suppose secession is too much of an extreme anyways.

The point about entering two teams at underage is interesting alright, although again that would no doubt open it up for other counties to do likewise too.

if_in_doubt (Kildare) - Posts: 3685 - 05/03/2013 16:59:57    1343428

TheMaster,

I pointed this out to you before, but you don't listen. Certain sections of the Dublin population WILL NEVER play GAA.....and will never be in line to play GAA.

There are something like 15 soccer clubs in Finglas in Dublin, 1 GAA club. Ballymun.... 6 or 7 soccer Clubs, one Gaelic Football Club one Hurling Club.

Want me to continue this??? Look at Tallaght......Look at Clondalkin......Look at......

Running football and hurling at underage level costs money, being competitive costs money. Yeah Dublin have a big population size, but how many actually play Gaelic Football/Hurling??? Like the reality is theres lots of divisions for example in adult football in Dublin, but you go outside the top four divisions, and Dublin only get the benefit of one or two players. So realistically that's all we have is 1000 players to choose from for an adult football team. And with natural selection/people dropping to inter/junior, minors etc coming through, year to year the Dubs effectively have the same number of players.

Now...SUCCESS. Dublin have been relatively unsuccessful with the entire county to draw from, so splitting the county in half is going to make Dublin better how?

Surely splitting Kilkenny into North Kilkenny and South Kilkenny would be far better for hurling in this country???

It wont happen though, NO APPETITE FOR IT IN KILKENNY

No appetite for a split in Dublin, so its not gonna happen.

When someone asks me where am I from....I don't say North Dublin; I say DUBLIN.

What Dublin realised about ten years ago was that there were massive structural problems at underage, and they needed to develop underage squads. And did, and all that work has turned into a conveyer belt for pushing lads through from u16, Minor, 21's all the way to the senior team. This all cost massive amounts of money.

This can be achieved by other counties with smaller budgets, bigger numbers means bigger costs. Smaller numbers is smaller costs.....

Like look at Donegal; they don't have a massive population yet achieved!

JayP (Dublin) - Posts: 1772 - 05/03/2013 17:03:04    1343429

If in doubt

Couldn't see other counties letting Dublin split for underage only and not senior.

It'd give us an unfair advantage imo in developing more players through to senior. Wouldn't be in favour of it myself for that reason.

Can't see a split ever materialising either. If we go through a good period success wise for the next few years the topic will keep coming up. However it'll die away again when we fall away from the top as we inevitably will after awhile.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13707 - 05/03/2013 17:14:37    1343446

Good man KELF, up Offaleix!

realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8592 - 05/03/2013 17:30:09    1343465

TheMaster

you say the numbers taking up the game and the funds available to dublin as main reasons to split them up ok il address this first.
why should you penalise an organistaion who is actively increasing itself and running its ship better then it used to,also why should you penalise a county board becuase they put the hard work in to get young guys to play the sport or penalise the county board becuase they put the hard work in to negotiate a realy good sponsorhip deal with a big company,to do that would be setting a very poor example that a we only want a certain number of people playing our sport and b you are saying that your county brand should only be allowed get so big but not try and increase its popularity,for me thats again poor form as we have an amature asscoiation in the gaa who gets very little promotion by the association itself or by our national mediums so you want to penalise dublin for being strong enough to go out and increase its numbers and its profile?

you then suggest that dublin because of population has 10 times higher then everywhere else which is wrong as cork have the largest playing population!!!
you then say the nature of the set up in dublin is stopping people playing the game? why what is wrong with the set up that stops anybody joining a club?
now you then say kilkenny no more no less but in terms of quality players they produce at under age right up they are making the competitions one sided this is basically why this whole thing came about with dublin being split becuase of underage success so i dont get why one county should be asked to split up and the other county not considering kilkenny play almos tno football where as dublin have put an awful lot of hard hours into developing hurling.
where is the notion you get that dublin spend absolute fortunes to get success? the underage success has come from avery good set up of getting these guys i young and putting an awful lot of time into developing them on the training pitch,i cannot see where any money spent comes into this.
how have dublin not had the same starting position as everybody else in terms of money? again every county started off in the 90tys without a sponsors and then they all went and got sponsors,blaming dublins ability to get a bigger sponsor as a reason to punish them is very unfair.

the scale of meath and longford is the same you start divinding dublin but wont think any other countys have population advantages over others.
you said as regards cork dublin have the biggest playing numbers if they can get them playing.this is a ridiculous line as if cork have more playing they HAVE BIGGER PLAYING NUMBERS,you again fail to take into account all the other sports are also bigger in dublin then in the other countys why cant you understand that as it means there is a bigger spread of who plays what sport!!!

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 05/03/2013 17:34:31    1343469

Very encouraging to see that this idea has very little support in Dublin or in the country in general.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13707 - 05/03/2013 17:44:43    1343487

JayP, I have already addressed that point. Yes there is a higher number that dont play gaa, but there is also a higher number that do. That is the thing with a population 10 times the mean, they have more of everything... So they will ahve 10 times more who dont and 10 times more who do.

mesamis, your approach reminds me of that joke where the english soldier and the irish soldier are at the gates of heaven. The irish soldier gets asked how many people died in ww1, and the english soilder gets asked to name them... Dublin can be spilt just like any county can be split. How is it kerry can have divisionsal teams every year in their club championship? The fact that I dont have the final draft of the split, with player names included doesnt mean we cannot debate the more pertinent issues. As I have said over and over again, take it as read that a fair system can be drawn up, because frankly, the fact that they already have their development squads divided in two is a clear indication that it is possible...

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 05/03/2013 17:52:37    1343492

hill16no1man, how is evening out the competition penalising dublin? Surely the way is it now is penalising everyone else? Can you not see that? As it is now dublin are at an advantage. Bringing them in line with the rest inst penalising anyone, it is fair play.
Also, I said dublin have 10 times the mean, that is the middle of the road county, not everyone.
Again on the cork thing, dublin have more potential players, the fact that they cant convince as many to play football is really their own issue. E.g. do we give kilkenny footballers a 10 point lead in every game because they cannot convince more of their guysto play? Or is it down to them to sort that out in their own county because they are getting the same chance as everyone else?

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 05/03/2013 17:59:17    1343497

The Master

How can a debate take place if you can't prove a fair split can be achieved?

One of the major cruxes of this debate is whether or not a split can be achieved in a fair way that will work. You want us to just accept what you say with no questions asked when it is one of the major issues with your plan.

You can't just ignore a massive part of the debate because you don't, as you have admitted, don't have an answer for.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13707 - 05/03/2013 18:30:47    1343526

I for one wouldnt be in favour for splitting dublin in 4, but come on lads, ye are talking as if splitting it up would be impossible, in reality it cant be that hard to split a county in 4 equal parts! If you are going to argue against the split at least have a better defense ready than that.

white.n.blue (Monaghan) - Posts: 249 - 05/03/2013 19:01:44    1343548

Well since no one is interested in splitting the county up here is the current dub panel carved up by Ana Liffey.

Northside
A Brogan
Barry Cahill
B Brogan
Bryan Cullen
Dean Kelly
Eamonn Fennell
Ger Brennan
Michael Savage
Paul Flynn
Philly McMahon
Ross McConnell
James McCarty
Darran Daly
Stephen Cluxton
Thomas Quinn
Jack McCaffrey
Johnny Cooper
Karl Connolly
Kevin O'Brien
Paddy Andrews

Southside
Denis Bastick
Michael Fitzsimons
Phil Casey
Rory O'Carroll
Nicky Devereux
Cian O'Sullivan
Kevin McManamon
Kevin Nolan
Emmet OConghaile
Eoghan O'Gara

Same lesson done with Hurling as you'd have about 6 off the panel playing on the Northside.

Its a load of manure the whole idea.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4896 - 05/03/2013 19:31:21    1343561