I am posting on one thread on the dubs AthCliath. Generally, the county boards are not as good as the national one. Again, I dont see any point there at all.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 05/03/2013 11:10:48    1343054

Master,

I don't see a bandwagon of support for this from round the country.

Does the fact that you are on your own in this not give you any pause for thought?

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 05/03/2013 11:32:34    1343083

hasn't dublin always benefitted from country folk going there to play? Jesus how many meath players sons and grandson have worn the blue of dublin? sennan connel been just one,
secondly, why split dublin? jesus this is a stupid idea, is dublin that far advance of the rest of the country? one all ire is 16 odd years puts that theory to bed i think. yes they farming leinster for nearly a decade, but I feel that has more to do with in particular but not exclusively meaths lack of investmentin youth football, when we were farming leinster prior to 02 was there calls to divided meath from north navan,? let's have two kilkennys. now there is a real problem, leave dublin as is, meath will be back in next 10 years and will take leinster and maybe all ire, but until then dub will remain leinster supreme with donegal, mayo kerry cork etc well able to give them a match anyday

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 05/03/2013 11:39:24    1343089

Again MesAmis you ask me to line out the split, and again I point out that I did not come onto the thread claiming I had the defining method to do this. Why do you keep asking for something I never claimed to have? Can I ask you for the lotto numbers and refuse to address your points until you provide them? Saying it over and over again, doesnt change this fact. I have answered your questions, you claim that I havent, yet you refuse to address the answers. All the while refusing to even acknowledge the questions I have put to you. What is clear is you are not here for debate. Now I can go down your road, with this passive aggressive rubbish, but why bother, that is just petty and is the reason this thread has gone 6 pages without really trying to address the point. Why bother? From now on I wont be addressing your points until you answer the questions I put to you.

Realdub, I just read an article there about dublin being split up at underage level as a trial. In my opinion, that wouldnt be a bad idea, what do you think yourself?

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 05/03/2013 11:50:09    1343110

GAA Presiedent said it's not going to happen

He also said that if it was to happen it would be down to Dublin Clubs wanting it to happen

= NEVER

So well thats that.

Beelzedub (Dublin) - Posts: 480 - 05/03/2013 12:00:24    1343116

TheMaster
County: Mayo
Posts: 6064

1343110
Again MesAmis you ask me to line out the split, and again I point out that I did not come onto the thread claiming I had the defining method to do this. Why do you keep asking for something I never claimed to have? Can I ask you for the lotto numbers and refuse to address your points until you provide them? Saying it over and over again, doesnt change this fact. I have answered your questions, you claim that I havent, yet you refuse to address the answers. All the while refusing to even acknowledge the questions I have put to you. What is clear is you are not here for debate. Now I can go down your road, with this passive aggressive rubbish, but why bother, that is just petty and is the reason this thread has gone 6 pages without really trying to address the point. Why bother? From now on I wont be addressing your points until you answer the questions I put to you.

You have said constantly on this thread that a split can be done in a fair way yet you continually refuse and fail to explain it. And now you're telling us you never claimed to have a way of splitting the county fairly! I have to say you really are all over the shop on this thread.

First you could split us fairly in four, then two, now you say you never said you had it. Classic stuff man!

So I've to answer your question but you don't have to answer any of mine? Brilliant stuff Master. Running away from the discussion! You do realise that this is what a discussion is don't you? Maybe you don't like it if people don't just agree with everything you say?

You made a point and put forward an idea. I questioned it and you've, over 6 pages, thrown a strop and refused to answer any of my questions. Your idea is ill-conceived and unworkable, your inability to even explain the simplest of matters in terms of how it would work and why it is needed are perfect illustrations of that.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13707 - 05/03/2013 12:04:23    1343120

O'Neill has "no appetite" for Dublin split

GAA President Liam O'Neill. INPHOGAA president Liam O'Neill says Dublin GAA won't be asked to split in two.

The idea of diluting Dublin's power by dividing their base in half has been mooted in recent weeks but the Association president confirmed yesterday that the only circumstance under which a split might occur would be if Dublin themselves requested one:

"At underage level Dublin might feel it is of more benefit to field more than one team," O'Neill states.

"As far as I'm concerned, it's not something that's going to be forced on them. I certainly have no appetite for it.

"If Dublin feel at underage level that it's going to be of benefit to them I am sure that Leinster Council would be more than willing to accommodate them.

"That could be done and it's probably in that context that it should be looked at. If it worked at underage level it could grow naturally.

"It cannot be done without the co-operation of Dublin. It can only be done, to the advantage of the organisation, when Dublin feel ready for that.

"I can see the argument for it and I can see the argument against it. I can see the argument against breaking the brand that's working at the moment. That's why it would have to grow from a wish within Dublin from people involved in clubs who want representative opportunities.

"I certainly won't be pushing it. I am always worried about breaking brands that work before you have something else to replace it. That would be a concern here. Listening to the arguments, we would have to find ways to accommodate them in our structure if they did decide to go down that route. We could accommodate that, but it won't work if it's forced. It would have to come from within."

:)

Beelzedub (Dublin) - Posts: 480 - 05/03/2013 12:06:18    1343124

NSEW =

No Sense Even Wondering

It aint going to happen.

Beelzedub (Dublin) - Posts: 480 - 05/03/2013 12:15:21    1343135

TheMaster
County: Mayo
Posts: 6065

Well hill16no1man, as least you are trying to address what is a genuine point, in a genuine manner. On the point of antrim or cork, if thier populations were approaching 10 times the mean, and they showed signs of being being capable of sustaining 2 teams then I would be in favour of splitting them. Similarly if there was a population boom in my own county and we showed the signs that dublin are now, then I would support a split. I mean if it was split in 2, both dublin teams would still have a higher population than everyone else. That just shows the size of the difference that is there at present. Imagine how that will develop in the next 20-30 even 50 years.
As regards kilkenny, no they should not be split, I have made that point earlier in the thread.

so i gather your whole basis for splitting counties up is purely down to population sizes am i correct?
you are not in favour of splitting a county for the good of the game like splitting kilkenny because they are dominating hurling but split dublin just for the fact that the whole county outside of gaa players has a big population.should the state of the game not come first? there is a far greater reason to split kilkenny in gaa terms then dublin as kilkenny have won about 13 of the last 15 leinster titles and i think 8 of the last 9 all irelands!!!
dublin have not had that success level at all and is it only because we have won a few all irelands at underage that you know want this which would elimanate your original arguement that its purely down to population size,if dublin were not succesful like in the early 00tys would you feel they should be split?
also how about the comparison of meath to longford,meath would need to be split in five areas to make the population size the same as longfords to make that level playing field.also you have ignored the fact that regardless of population dublin does not have the biggest amount of gaa players,cork does.
so would that not mean cork have the biggest pick?
you seem to not take on board that every other sporting organisation is bigger in dublin too which means there is more of a spread of that population playing other sports.for example what other county has 5 league of ireland clubs and 15 AIL rugby clubs to pick from their populations?

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 05/03/2013 12:22:21    1343145

MuckrossHead
County: Donegal
Posts: 585

1343083 Master,

I don't see a bandwagon of support for this from round the country.

Does the fact that you are on your own in this not give you any pause for thought?
________________

It didnt stop him on his previous unsupported crusade of demanding Dublin GAA revenue

Beelzedub (Dublin) - Posts: 480 - 05/03/2013 12:26:29    1343147

Offside_Rule
County: Antrim
Posts: 720

Good post. But participation was never a variable that was included in The Masters original argument. He looked a mere demographics alone. Should anyone think Dublin or Antrim have a pick of 1.2 million or 600 odd thousand respectively they are obviously deluded.

seany16 (Dublin) - Posts: 1658 - 05/03/2013 12:32:01    1343155

The Master, I would look at splitting the underage, but no way would I ever split the senior team.

realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8592 - 05/03/2013 12:43:35    1343170

seany16
County: Dublin
Posts: 820

Hence the reason I set up that thread.

Beelzedub (Dublin) - Posts: 480 - 05/03/2013 12:44:32    1343172

royaldunne
County: Meath
Posts: 3206

hasn't dublin always benefitted from country folk going there to play? Jesus how many meath players sons and grandson have worn the blue of dublin? sennan connel been just one,
secondly, why split dublin? jesus this is a stupid idea, is dublin that far advance of the rest of the country? one all ire is 16 odd years puts that theory to bed i think. yes they farming leinster for nearly a decade, but I feel that has more to do with in particular but not exclusively meaths lack of investmentin youth football, when we were farming leinster prior to 02 was there calls to divided meath from north navan,? let's have two kilkennys. now there is a real problem, leave dublin as is, meath will be back in next 10 years and will take leinster and maybe all ire, but until then dub will remain leinster supreme with donegal, mayo kerry cork etc well able to give them a match anyday

Obviously I'm aware I run the risk of having you turn this into an anti-Kildare thing but what exactly do you mean by "farming leinster"? A few under 21 titles fair enough, but you weren't exactly dominating the province to the same extent that Dublin have / could over the next few years.

Instead of splitting Dublin surely the best thing to do would be to get them to help other counties develop a successful blueprint for underage structures, especially in hurling.

The McKenna point regarding a possible split if the want to seek provincial status is a fair enough one though I think, but again it's not something that should never come about as no county should have that status.

if_in_doubt (Kildare) - Posts: 3685 - 05/03/2013 12:45:01    1343173

Beelzedub
County: Dublin
Posts: 391

1343172 seany16
County: Dublin
Posts: 820

Hence the reason I set up that thread.
________

But sadly we'll still have to listen to rather simple like responses of "You have 1.27 million to pick from" rubbish over and over again...

But I think I've made some sort of in roads on that subject...

Beelzedub (Dublin) - Posts: 480 - 05/03/2013 12:54:59    1343187

Yeah seany16 - the more I actually think about it there are a lot of other important factors which I hadn't considered. I mean take the female population in Antrim - there are quite a few who are of the stock which would actually do well on the pitch and could probably put in a better 60 min shift that the males. Up in the glens we have women who could carry 2 hundred weight bags of spuds while 8 months pregnant and both arms in plaster. Similarly in the male population there would probably be a good few who would be better on the camogie field or doing arts and crafts. Also, if weather is factored in then it would further decrease the players in Antrim given how cold it can be up here. Faced with the choice of going out to training in temperatures down in the minus teens and staying inside to watch the soaps most people would go for the latter.

It may be all very subjective but I think it is the best formula the GAA could apply to find out the playing population per county then add in some handicap based on the results to make the whole All Ireland fairer. They could look at each game and the counties involved, give them a rank based on the aforementioned factors and then either add on points or take them away (depending on the rank) prior to kick off. So instead of the starting scoreline being 0-00 to 0-00 it could be something like -5pts to +3 points. What could possibly go wrong with a system like that?

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 05/03/2013 13:09:07    1343201

lads in fairness to colm o rourke his article was not an anti dublin article colm is not and never was afraid of taking on the mighty dubs, his main point was the amount of footballers and to a lesser extent hurlers that will never get a chance to play intercounty because of the excellent structure dublin have now in place and the huge numbers that are available to the co. board. I have no doubt if it were to happen then it would not be long before we would have a north dublin v south dublin leinster final. Now do i think its going to happen ? No cant see it but its a good debate and this is the time of the year for these type of arguments. although the potential for revenue that the dublin board can generate in comparison to other counties is huge so if the dubs machine was to go and have a dominant few years well this idea may surface again.

johnsee (Meath) - Posts: 389 - 05/03/2013 13:12:48    1343205

seany16, your claim about my point is false. I have stated over and over that more players would come through if this were done. I must have stated it 10 times on this thread. How exactly is that not considering participation? Now you either arent reading what is being said, or you are purposely trying to pigeon-hole my argument to make it seem biased. Take your pick.


hill16no1man
so i gather your whole basis for splitting counties up is purely down to population sizes am i correct?

No that is not correct. Population is just one part. The numbers taking up the game, the funds available to support it, the numbers of intercounty standard footballers being produced, the structures being in place and the amount of players missing out at present are also reasons. Basically if a county has the means, and has 10 times the average population, then there is good reason for them to consider splitting in 2. At present dublin is like a big juggernaut in gaa terms, and the my point is maybe it would be fairer on everyone if that were evened out (dublin included). It isnt so complex is it?

Yes the state of the game should come first. On that topic, how many youngsters in dublin are not playing gaa? Now some dont want to play it, you ahve that % in every county. But is the % not playing higher in dublin than everywhere else? Maybe that is because they cant play it, such is the nature of the setup in the county. I would say that is a particularly worrying statistic as regards the state of the game, wouldnt you?
Re, kilkenny, no absolutely not. The difference is, kilkenny are no more or less a county than anyone else. the dont have superior numbers, or superior funds. They just train the lads they have so well that they become all-conquering champions. Nothing wrong with that as there is nothing stopping anyone else doing the same. However, if kilkenny were spending absolute fortunes that others just couldnt spend, or they had such a huge pick that it made things unbalanced, let alone both combined, then there would be cause for splitting them. You see that is the basis of fair competition. They had the same starting point as everyone else. Dublin have a far superior starting point.

But this nonsense about success doesnt come into it. If we all can see that they have a huge advantage, then why should we have to wait for them to use this advantage before we can act? Surely by then it is too late?

Meath longford, the scale of the difference isnt the same. I never said that everyone has to be exactly the same size. I just said that no one team should be so far out of range to everyone else that it makes a mockery of fair competition.
As regards cork, dublin have the biggest numbers, if they cant get guys playing football or hurling then that is a problem they need to solve themselves. Potentially they can have twice as many players as anyone else, and 10 times as many as most. You cant say well, we havent really gotten our act together therefore you need to ignore fairness.

That point cancels itself out. If dublin has 10 times the people as the average county then they will have 10 times the guys not playing than the average, but they will also have 10 times the guys playing than the average. You cant reference one without the other. It is 10 times everything across the board.


realdub, what if the underage split was a success, with both teams winning AI titles over the course of a few years?

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 05/03/2013 14:47:45    1343288

The Master the Gaa president has spoken it ain't going to happen end of debate for now I'm afraid.

Bluewave (Dublin) - Posts: 552 - 05/03/2013 15:19:24    1343322

if in doubt, I too do not want another meath kildare thread.
facts are in the fifteen seasons prior to 02 meath won 8 senior leinster 8 u21 leinster and 6 minor, actually i stand to be corrected but i think that period was the only leinsters we won at 21 level
there was no calls for meath to be devided then so same applies to dublin now " yes Dublin have a serious grasp of all levels in leinster at the min, bur it is up to the kildare, meath, laois etc of leinster to stand up and make sure that does not continue, and that should be at all ages, meath and kildare have pretty good u21. teams thus year and either could beat dub, pity we are on same side as one of us could have beat them

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 05/03/2013 15:22:39    1343327