Nice Post Pope Benedict....hopefully some of the white smoke will blow up the N17 towards the malcontent

Tyronetim (Tyrone) - Posts: 1254 - 24/05/2012 13:59:32    1179594

Well the definition came from pat spillane. He labelled the type of play tyrone used as puke football. In fairness to the guy the attacking in waves wasnt really part of their game when he christened it upon them. So his definition would have been defending in numbers, exceptional fitness and intensity, emphasis on good tackling ability, engineering frees, diving, disguised fouling, provoking opponents, targetting opponents and finally, and most importantly, teamwork in all of the above. That is what was christened puke football. I have no issue with the first 4, even 5 parts, it is just the rest that I have the problem with, apart from the teamwork obviously. They were all very much part of the gameplan that was christened puke football, so when describing puke football you cant talk about 2 or 3, and ignore the other parts.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 24/05/2012 14:14:05    1179612

Given that balanced definition why are they not before the Hague for War crimes. Never thought of Mickey Harte as Mladic "The Butcher of Glencull" ...nice ring to it.

Spillane offered no definition it was just the sorest of losers unable to take the changing of the guard.
Your definition says it all about you and you have the audacity to say its in the name of balance.

Where you proud of Mayo's orchestrated antics against Cork a few weeks back? ..Obviously in the interest of balance of course

Tyronetim (Tyrone) - Posts: 1254 - 24/05/2012 14:28:04    1179634

Tyronetim, no i wasnt proud of the few incidents of that one game. Were you proud of 10 years of all of the above?

As for my definition, what parts are not accurate? Let us hear your definition...

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 24/05/2012 16:30:35    1179756

'So his definition would have been defending in numbers, exceptional fitness and intensity, emphasis on good tackling ability, engineering frees, diving, disguised fouling, provoking opponents, targetting opponents and finally, and most importantly, teamwork in all of the above.'

This wasn't part of his definition of puke football at all, you've just added that in. In any thread about Tyrone you will harp on about how Tyrone cheat, dive, try to get opponents sent off blah, blah, blah. We get it so there's no point repeating it ad nauseum, it's so tedious

pplocal (Tyrone) - Posts: 5878 - 24/05/2012 16:58:25    1179791

TheMaster, I think that's way too elaborate a definition. The phrase 'puke football', I believe, was simply coined by Pat Spillane after Tyrone's display of group tackling in the 2003 semi-final against Kerry. You had that famous clip of play, where Daire O'Se couldn't offload a ball under the Hogan Stand, because there were 5 Tyrone lads hounding him, not fouling him mind you. Then you had further clips of sad looking Kerrymen in the stands, having lost the 2002 final to Armagh, but unable to find the antidote for Tyrone ravenous hunger on the day. At the end of 70mins, it was back to studio, for the impartial opinion of another irate Kerryman, and the term 'puke football' was born.

Pope_Benedict (Galway) - Posts: 3422 - 24/05/2012 17:06:51    1179804

Oh a few incidents..there goes that balance thing again.

You should know better than to ask a Tyrone man was he proud of Tyrone's acheivements in 2003..stuff of folklore.

As for your definition..I have none because there is none. There is no such thing as Puke Football...it's a bit like the Bogeyman.

Tyronetim (Tyrone) - Posts: 1254 - 24/05/2012 17:43:44    1179851

For some when they refer to Donegal and Puke Football they mention handpassing, when Al_Maguire presents the stats from last years championship & shows that Kerry for example in more than one game had a huge amount of handpasses, because it undermines their point then some instead switch their attention to fouling. Again the stats from last season shows the games with the most fouls involved teams such as Tyrone & Dublin. We remember the Kildare selector in the press trying to influence the referee in regards to perceived "cynical fouling" by Donegal and think back to extra time & the men that were actually engaged in the majority of the fouling while trying to hold on for the win. So then some switch to the number of Donegal men in defence, now there's no question that in the semi final against Dublin Donegal was ultra defensive & many of us Donegal people believe that had we committed more men to attack in the 2nd half we would have reached the final but lets not ignore Dublin keeping 4 men in defence to look after Donegal's sole forward, hardly adventurous football.

Now to 2012, there's no question that during the league Donegal did introduce a style with more of a combination of defence and attack, the team conceded more & scored more than the previous year, thinking of the games against Dublin & Mayo for example. In the game against Cavan Donegal racked up a healthy 1-16 with 11 points from play, including 1 point each from backs N. McGee & F. McGlynn & 4 from midfield, while missing their best forward M. Murphy, so there must have been a fair amount of attacking amongst all the defending. Someone mentioned the attendance at the game and implied people were staying away because of Donegal's style yet the fact is the attendance was higher than when the teams met at the same venue last year, surely the figure should have been lower then?

We hear the "neutral arguement" and some ridiculous points regarding the future of the game, for some Donegal are almost single handedly killing Gaelic football. Football has survived civil war, partition & recessions, I think it will survive Jim Mc Guinness & his dastardly men from the mountains. I don''t care a jot what system any other county adopts & I personally am loving all this Donegal bashing. In 2010 before Jim took over, Donegal lost at home in the 1st round of the Ulster championship & were trounced by Armagh in the 1st round of the qualifiers. I'm sure there wasn't much talk of Donegal on the forum back then. I'm very happy with & proud of the Donegal management & team, an extremely committed & hardworking group with a fair bit of talent aswell.

Percy.Pringle (Donegal) - Posts: 26 - 24/05/2012 17:52:19    1179861

tyronetim, i didnt ask you were you proud of their achievements, just like you didnt ask me was i proud of mayos achievements. I was decent enough to answer the question you asked, obviously that is where we differ. As for puke football not existing, well obviously it does because there are plenty, including many tyrone men, discussing it at length, but I suppose denying its existence has its perks for you.

pplocal
you are picking and choosing what was in spillane's definition. He said tyrone played puke football. He didnt list out some particular aspects and say this is puke football, the rest isnt, so for you to say this part is counted and that part isnt is nonsense. You take every part of their game, because that is what the man said. There is not 1 thing on that list that tyrone didnt do. Now I accept most counties have had incidents of all of the above, but the difference is tyrone done it as a group, and to do it as a group takes planning and practice, whether it be group tackling or group fouling.

pope, spillane actually singled out that incident and another on tom o'se, after the time cork bet tyrone, and stated that the player was being fouled 2-3 time in those passages of play, but there was so many around him that the ref couldnt see it in real time, so yes the fouling was very much part of his assessment.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 24/05/2012 18:51:39    1179907

Percy where should have the 4 Dublin defenders have gone? The full back line for Dublin was to play in the full back line that day , so tell me please where should they have gone????Should they have left mick fitz one on one with McFadden and go up to the already congested Donegal back line or what? Seriously man you had 13 men in defence where else would the Dublin defenders fit you couldn't move up there as it was. Dublin defenders held there positions on the pitch like any other team would playing against Donegal that day.

clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 24/05/2012 20:49:02    1179970

how do the donegal lads work out which jersey is theirs is what id like to know surely 15 NO.1 must cause some confusion before a game ;-)

dubbydave. (Dublin) - Posts: 3927 - 24/05/2012 21:31:06    1180016

Clondalkin - you are acting as if the way Donegal set out that day was a complete shock for Dublin where in reality it was not at all. If the 4 defenders in the full back line were meant to play in the full back line then thats just poor management. In the days up to the game Pat Gilroy was asked how he would deal with the system and he said he had a plan to counteract it - not a very good one as it turned out

And dont give me that there was no space, thats just pathetic. There were plenty of times in the first half when you shot from long range or out on the wings when there was NOBODY within 25 metres of our goal. If you dont believe me go back and watch it (if you can put yourself through that again bla bla bla....) The reality is you were clueless with what to do. There were no runners from deep, nobody able to beat a man, no change of tactics. McManamon made the difference (that and Karl Lacey going off) and Im not sure if that was more fluke than tactical genius.

You get rugby teams who have to get through 15 men lined across Croke Park doing it no problem and they cant even pass the ball forward! Just tell it as it is, Dublin stumbled through a test that they should have been expecting. And I give you all the credit for that....maybe the experience stood to you in the final!

benjyyy (Donegal) - Posts: 1422 - 25/05/2012 10:18:42    1180156

Benjy we were ready for the defensive game you played all year but in the semi final you brought it to another level that we weren't expecting so stop talking rubbish. You had 13 men behind the ball how the hell could another 4 players for go up there? They would have been in the way. Rory O Carroll is a full back if he went by the half way line he would get a nose bleed.

clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 25/05/2012 10:53:14    1180188

So in essence you are saying that your players were not versatile enough to adapt? Is this not what any opposition should do - try to take the other team out of their comfort zone? So really you are saying that Donegal did not play the formation that Dublin wanted them to....call me crazy but I think that counts as good tactics

benjyyy (Donegal) - Posts: 1422 - 25/05/2012 11:03:49    1180201

tyronetim, i didnt ask you were you proud of their achievements, just like you didnt ask me was i proud of mayos achievements. I was decent enough to answer the question you asked, obviously that is where we differ. As for puke football not existing, well obviously it does because there are plenty, including many tyrone men, discussing it at length, but I suppose denying its existence has its perks for you.

Master - Not sure you embraced the depths of the "Unmanliness" as our Sunday game panellists refer to it. I don't agree with your assessment of Tyrone's "last ten years of all above" and answered the obvious that I'm proud of what Tyrone have done over the last 20 years or so. If your assessment became reasoned and balanced analysis unencumbered by bitterness or resentment akin to the author of "Puke Football" I would be more generous and address each in turn. Unfortunately it comes across as far from "Decent" and should be ignored without affording it credence. "Puke football" can't be defined and Spillane made no attempt to - neither should you as it's a misnomer or oxymoron and certainly not something worthy of rational debate.

Tyronetim (Tyrone) - Posts: 1254 - 25/05/2012 14:13:24    1180364

Percy
Again the stats from last season shows the games with the most fouls involved teams such as Tyrone & Dublin

Do the stats reveal who committed the fouls or just an aggregate of the fouls in the game. I read somewhere that Tyrone were involved in two games with a lot of fouls Dublin and Monaghan. I remember both games very well and there were certainly some interesting statistics around interchange fouling and the areas fouls were committed.
I would suspect that this year given the press Donegal have been getting this last year or so that they will be on the wrong end of many decisions around tackling or defending - maybe we can revisit this point as the year develops.

Tyronetim (Tyrone) - Posts: 1254 - 25/05/2012 14:19:13    1180368

Ok bengjy if that makes you feel better then great the Only thing is we won the game.

clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 25/05/2012 14:26:33    1180378

I think this is a silly argument. I dont believe its that bad to be honest. I think Donegal have had some very intense games. Honestly I love good defensive play and now everytime donegal turnover possession the crowd cheer which makes it nearly more exciting (For Donegal Supporters).

I dont think "Puke Football" is or ever has been a correct term. I think the idea of Tyrones 2005-2008 "Total Football" is what every team wants. Donegal are like dublin, and tyrone when they starter there all ireland winning teams (maybe donegal took it too far) but if we win an All Ireland like the other two I wont complain.

dstuction (Donegal) - Posts: 1209 - 25/05/2012 14:45:43    1180394

It doesnt make me feel better or worse, thats just how it is.

Yes I realise you won the game, that doesnt change anything I've said. Im analysing the performance, not the result

benjyyy (Donegal) - Posts: 1422 - 25/05/2012 14:49:16    1180400

benjyyy
County: Donegal
Posts: 426

1180201
So in essence you are saying that your players were not versatile enough to adapt? Is this not what any opposition should do - try to take the other team out of their comfort zone? So really you are saying that Donegal did not play the formation that Dublin wanted them to....call me crazy but I think that counts as good tactics

versatile or adapt how can dublin or any team apapt when donegal defend in numbers if the opponent has the ball donegal can be sure to have 5-6 man around them gauranteed..

dubbydave. (Dublin) - Posts: 3927 - 25/05/2012 16:46:50    1180530