I think the stats that highlight the use of the handpass by Kerry and Donegal are very interesting considering I saw an interview with the Gooch last week where he said that Kerry never would never give up their traditional kicking game. It seems that's a myth too!!

football first (None) - Posts: 1259 - 22/05/2012 12:35:26    1177953

Lockjaw
County: Donegal
Posts: 2270

1177888
Superb, rapier-like wit and analysis from clondalkindub yet again...Bravo sir, bravo!
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If its cutting edge analysis you are after Lockjaw, then Clondalkins your man!

brendtheredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 10897 - 22/05/2012 12:35:53    1177954

Nothing against Donegal personally, I love to see the "non-traditional" counties win - and would instinctively cheer the underdog (like most people). I'd accept I'm singling-out Donegal, but Donegal 2011 were probably(hopefully) representative of the final step in the regression that over-use of the handpass has led us to. Trying to be optimistic hopefully teams can counter-act it - if its mimic'ed due to success then it will be a disaster. Good luck to any team that wins with a ratio of 87% handpass (ie. throwing) to 13% kick pass - but don't ask me to watch it.

Solo Run (None) - Posts: 316 - 22/05/2012 12:46:43    1177972

Clearly just people being anti Ulster again....

moomoo (Kerry) - Posts: 4023 - 22/05/2012 12:58:42    1177985

@ ClondalkinDub

Everything about Donegal I hate. Donegal supporters need to look at the bigger picture here.

I think we have gotten the bigger picture here... its in the sentence before above and it's also in my last post. You can't make a valid argument so you resort to bias and bitterness.

Anyway - I'm off to watch a re-run of Donegal V Kildare from last year - what a terrible, unexciting match.

Al_Maguire (Donegal) - Posts: 244 - 22/05/2012 13:01:07    1177990

@al Maguire

No I wasn't referring to your post but if you meant anti donegal perhaps you
Should have said that rather than anti ulster as its a bit confusing. I was, of course, referring to our very own in house politician, Ulsterman who uses most threads as a way to propel the myth that everyone is against the north etc. I've stated I don't care what way a county play if they get the results they want as long as its within the rules so good luck to you. I do believe if you don't find a way of attacking more, especially against other ultra defensive teams you will struggle. Other posters here have said the team appeared to be attacking more in the game v Cavan hence the big score ye got. Will you be able to get that score when you meet a team that matches you defensively. Time will tell.

Jackeen (Dublin) - Posts: 4097 - 22/05/2012 13:07:47    1177997

clondalkindub
County: Dublin
Posts: 1962

1177943 Come on Derry the whole of Ireland is behind you. Get the ball into the Bradley's two class acts who play the game the way it's suppose to be played. Everything about Donegal I hate. Donegal supporters need to look at the bigger picture here. It's rubbish football, the last 2 years I've seen the worst games of football I've ever seen and guess what team has been involved in all them games?

The first part of your statement is untrue. I for one want to see Donegal beat Derry. For once you are right in that the Bradleys are top class. However who decided what the correct way to play the game is? The fact that Dublin play a defensive game, are not afraid to foul cynically as well as handpass with the best of them seems to be beyond you. At least attempt to take the blinkers off

omaghredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 3656 - 22/05/2012 13:12:16    1178008

I'm not the one who singles out posters for personal insults. I keep it about football and never get personal with a poster.

clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 22/05/2012 13:28:26    1178027

Dublin foul cynically...?

No worse than anyone else...

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 22/05/2012 13:31:43    1178034

Tyrone and Monaghan won the frees competition. You'd have gotten short odds on that :-)

hurlingdub (Dublin) - Posts: 6978 - 22/05/2012 13:33:57    1178041

Also look at the games with the most fouls - Dublin matches appear twice in the top five - but again apparently Donegal are the cynical fouling team.

Thats a bloody stupid statement. Linking Dublin to being a cynical team. Thats the first I've ever heard of it...

Just because there was a large number of fouls doesnt mean that Dublin are a cynical team. It just means that there was a large number of fouls in that particular match.

Dublin are also a kicking team. Thats as clear as day... thats the tactic that Dublin use. Hand passing is part of GAA

There will always be hand passes but some teams use it as a primary means of moving the ball. Dublin on the other hand do not do this.

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 22/05/2012 13:39:16    1178047

@ ClondalkinDub

Apologies if you think I'm being personal towards you.. I don't meant to be coming across that way...
However can you not see my point at the same time. Is it fine for you to say things 'I hate everything about Donegal' call Jim McGuiness the 'Devil'... call their style of play 'puke football' with no real analysis to back it up, ignore the defensive system that your own team can adpot (including in that All Ireland Semi-Final) and then get all sensitive when someone pulls you up on it... If you don't like it fine - but you're overstepping a line and insulting my county - and I'm entitled to respond.

Al_Maguire (Donegal) - Posts: 244 - 22/05/2012 13:55:43    1178065

All Donegal have to do this year is move the ball quicker out of defense and they'll be very hard to beat.

If you stick to a well drilled, 2nd natured system and get men behind the ball in that mind set... then any team in the country will struggle.

They have everything it takes to be successful in the modern game. They just need to get the ball forward quicker, hand passing is slow and draining as you have to bring the ball into contact more.

They just need to modify themselves a little on the 2011 model.

I've tipped Donegal to win Ulster and I think it will be a fruitful year for them. If they hadnt of been so one minded and lacking from the side line they could have made it to the AI final in 2011. Dublin just grinded them down because they didnt mix it up... even with 14 men Dublin finished the stronger team. Donegal were worn out and a little clueless in the end.

They need to be a little smarter than that. Can Jim Mc bring that to the table? Thats the question... because everything else is in place.

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 22/05/2012 14:07:36    1178081

Define cynical anyone, anyone. Oh and does the stats man also count cynical fouls as well as the normal variety, just putting it out there!

brendtheredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 10897 - 22/05/2012 14:08:53    1178082

@ Jimbob
I wasn't trying to link Dublin to being a cynical team at all - sorry if you interpeted that way. However last year Donegal were being accused and sterotyped. as being a cyncial and fouling team - so much so that the Kildare management team tried to influence the ref before the game. It wasn't meat as an attack on Dublin. I live and work in Dublin and was happy (genuinely) for them to win last year. They deserved to win it and showed how good defence and offence is possible.

Al_Maguire (Donegal) - Posts: 244 - 22/05/2012 14:11:48    1178086

Al_Magure
And while we are at it sure all the teams with less natural ability shouldn't train so hard either. They should just chill out a bit, readily give up possession by hoofing a ball into a full forward who has probably only 33% chance of winning it. They should also stop trying to defend in numbers - sure why spoil the likes of seeing the Gooch or Bernard Brogan being all 'manly' and skillful.. Sure isn't that what we all want - to watch Kerry and Dublin win the All Ireland year after year. That's real entertainment.

No not at all, train whatever way you like, play whatever way you like, just within the rules, because that is the real issue with puke football, at its core it is designed to exploit the rules of the game with gamesmanship and downright cheating. Play the game, dont try to weasel and cheat your way to the top of the game. The blanket defence alone is fine, but where it goes wrong is when teams use it to disguise fouls on the man in possession. Then you have all the diving and trying to get guys to lash out that goes on as soon as the guy gets called for overcarrying (even though he has been fouled into doing it). That isnt football that is just trying to exploit the fact that the rules of the game were designed for matches with guys playing honestly.

Who is this 'we'. Please point out where there is far more cynicism - show me the stats... give me examples... it's a biased comment based on a pre-judged view that is pure conjecture... and it all stems from the pundits repeatedly telling us that this is how it is. So would you blame Ulster people for saying there is an anti-northern bias when they are constantly reading things like that.

'We' is people who watch the gaa, and comment honestly. As for 'showing you the stats' do you know of any media outlet that record the number of A) Cynical fouls or B)pushing and shoving matches after a stop in play? Because if you do then we are in luck. If you want examples just watch the ulster championship. You can set your watch to the disingenious pushing and shoving, which is purely designed to get a reaction. If you cant see what is in front of your eyes then in all honesty you have bigger worries than puke football.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 22/05/2012 14:23:00    1178100

Fair enough man.

Good defense and offense is very much possible.

Donegal just need to be a little smarter in 2012. Modify themselves a little bit.. compare Dublin 2010 to Dublin 2011

Donegal are every bit as capable of making a simlar transition... but that comes from the line. Is Jim Mc capable...?

Because I think he was found wanting in the 2nd half of the 2011 semi-final. Its not only Donegals tactics that need tweeking... Jim needs to be better than that.

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 22/05/2012 14:23:30    1178101

to watch Kerry and Dublin win the All Ireland year after year.
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jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 22/05/2012 14:32:01    1178108

Look back to the 70's and 80's, before "puke football" and it wasn't a pretty sight either, most of those famous Dublin/Kerry encounters were exciting but of a poor standard of football. In fact most of the games were of poor standard. Players today are faster, stronger and play a more controlled game instead of hit and hope. I don't have a problem with it!

lilypad (Kildare) - Posts: 1363 - 22/05/2012 14:33:46    1178111

TheMaster
County: Mayo
Posts: 4196

'We' is people who watch the gaa, and comment honestly. As for 'showing you the stats' do you know of any media outlet that record the number of A) Cynical fouls or B)pushing and shoving matches after a stop in play? Because if you do then we are in luck. If you want examples just watch the ulster championship. You can set your watch to the disingenious pushing and shoving, which is purely designed to get a reaction. If you cant see what is in front of your eyes then in all honesty you have bigger worries than puke football.

There is nothing honest about that comment themaster, the opposite in fact. You don't speak for me, for one. To think you are basing your "honest" analysis on geographical generalisations and are lecturing people about having bigger worries.

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12120 - 22/05/2012 14:45:29    1178115