Meath Forum

Meath v Kildare Semi-final

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Replying To Uncle_Fester:  "I think the reaction to this game and some of the remarks made about Andy are a little over board. This is the same Kildare team that we're absolutely useless last year and it's also O'Neills third year in charge versus Andy's 6 months.

One of the positives I think that can be taken from the game are, I can see some of the passengers in the team being removed from the squad. Some are clearly not intercounty standard, the positive here being is we seen how hungry and determined O'Coilean and J McEntee were in comparison. Very impressed with ROC.

Kildare we're very impressive at midfield they cleaned us out in the first half when they had a very strong wind, Menton played well I thought but he badly needed help"
Its not the same Kildare team as last year, they have gotten lads back from injury and Oz, blooding young lads from their underage teams. O Neil had a lot more talent to work with this year. We do not seem to have anyone of their calibre to call on.

seadog54 (Meath) - Posts: 2142 - 18/06/2017 10:36:43    2001001

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Replying To LilySavage:  "Ffs lads. Don't be blaming the lad who stood up today and was your most dangerous player...ye were giving out about him at the match too!"
Spot on at least he kept trying to bring game to Kildare and never gave up, his shortcomings can easily be fixed

seadog54 (Meath) - Posts: 2142 - 18/06/2017 10:38:13    2001004

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Ye can give out about Paddy O'Rourke all ye like lads, but if ye were at the game you'd see that not a single Meath player apart from O'Sullivan gave him an option other than to bomb the ball out on top of Menton. And Menton usually was surrounded by two or three Kildare men. O'Rourke had no options at all. Jones made runs to try drag his man away from the middle but wasn't an option. Reilly never moved once for a kickout or break. Ye need a second big fella out there who can catch a ball.

icehonesty (Wexford) - Posts: 2550 - 18/06/2017 10:59:11    2001016

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Replying To GerryD:  "From an outside perspective, Gaa supporters around the country have been waiting for Meath and Kildare to mount a serious charge on Dublin for years and this looked like the year to do so. On tonight's performance, Kildare are two years ahead in their development. Meath badly need to get to div1 to figure out for themselves what it takes to cope with the big boys. Monaghan had to yoyo for years between div1&2 and it's served us well. It takes time. It will only happen with the right aptitude and know your place and what you need to do.

On the game itself, the basics were missing...
- No kick out strategy. Kicking long played in to their hands. This is crazy and distrusted your own gameplan.
- Backs exposed one on one for the entire game. Your half forwards came back to pick up loose ball, not to tackle or lend a hand. Shur I could do that!!,!
- Game passed by too many players. You have to get in to a game like this not waiting for it to come to you. Biggy should have gone to the half back line to collect one ball just to get on it and make plays, build confidence etc.
- tackling looked poor, mainly because you were tackling individually and not supporting in groups.
- Management should have had a plan to stop Kildare, they looked solely focused on the Meath game plan.
- Lastly and most unforgiving of all - it looked like you were playing together for the first time. No cohesion, no teamwork, workrate, no leaders, no character, nobody wanted to take control of the sinking ship. Hard work trumps everything so if the players only bothered to put their bodies on the line and show their anger and frustrating by trying harder, the score (not the result) would have been different. Players body language suggested "not my man...I did my job....it wasn't my fault".

If the players can sit down and take ownership and responsibility for that performance this morning it's a quick fix but if they need to be told - it could be a long road ahead. Best of luck lads. Gaa needs a strong Meath team."
really good post and you are right my friend.

strange thing is,in the league we got better and better and those things you highlighted to be been absent were there in the last 4/5 games. so was surprised with what i saw.

ziggy32001 (Meath) - Posts: 8354 - 18/06/2017 11:15:00    2001027

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unfair to be slagging off o'sullivan. he really tried and sometimes it doesn't work for you but i always appreciate effort. he often ran with the ball looked left,looked right,but not one player was on his shoulder or close for that matter. little teamwork and desire to help the man with the ball.
the opposite to what we saw the last 5 games or so.

ziggy32001 (Meath) - Posts: 8354 - 18/06/2017 11:22:47    2001031

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ultimately the biggest problem last night was teamwork and workrate of the team. what disappointed me the most, was the fact that it seemed we turned a corner in that sense. not much support in the tackle,nobody supporting the player with the ball makes you look disjointed,nobody contesting breaking ball. sadly only half the team put in the required effort. kildare are a good side,but so are we if we put in the workrate needed,otherwise we look ordinary.

ziggy32001 (Meath) - Posts: 8354 - 18/06/2017 11:29:08    2001034

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Very disappointing feeling leaving tullamore last night. Meath simply outclassed by a hungrier, stronger and smarter Kildare team. Credit to Kildare they look the real deal and wouldn't be surprised if they upset the dubs if they can cut out a few silly wides.

From our point of view not many positives to take from the game. Our tactics looked clueless and didn't seem to have a plan b so Andy has to take responsibility for that along with starting the same 15 as last day it obviously needed a few changes based on louth game. ROC the one huge positive to take from the game he is the real deal give Keith Cribben a roasting when he came on and should of started ahead of Wallace. O'Sullivan really tried hard but needs more intelligence in his game. Thought MC Gill and Harnan the best of our defenders. Menton had a good game against a quality midfield. Jones inexperience showed against that quality but he'll learn. Donal lenihan played well scored some lovely points but I can never understand why we always try kick high Ball into two small corner forwards. Big fan of biggie but no excuses for how poor he was last night.

On the point of the warm up I don't believe that can be used as an excuse Kildare were out at 6 10 mins before meath lads and did an equally tough warm up.

royalfollower (Meath) - Posts: 77 - 18/06/2017 11:44:09    2001044

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Replying To icehonesty:  "Ye can give out about Paddy O'Rourke all ye like lads, but if ye were at the game you'd see that not a single Meath player apart from O'Sullivan gave him an option other than to bomb the ball out on top of Menton. And Menton usually was surrounded by two or three Kildare men. O'Rourke had no options at all. Jones made runs to try drag his man away from the middle but wasn't an option. Reilly never moved once for a kickout or break. Ye need a second big fella out there who can catch a ball."
harry rooney could do with him.

ziggy32001 (Meath) - Posts: 8354 - 18/06/2017 11:49:57    2001045

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I don't need to say anything really. For 5 years in succession I have been saying the players are not there but very few seem to be able to accept that

Analyst (Meath) - Posts: 1467 - 18/06/2017 12:01:31    2001053

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No matter how well a player has played in the past or how talented he is, there is no excuse for not trying. A fella being taken off in a Leinster semi-final and come off having not sprinted for a single ball in the 55 mins he was on the field, I've just never seen it in my life. Unbelievable.

icehonesty (Wexford) - Posts: 2550 - 18/06/2017 12:30:45    2001061

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Replying To ziggy32001:  "in a nutshell,support runs were poor today. hard to get my head around why that was the case."
Where are we at now? 1 We are a work in progress having started from a low base 9 months ago. 2 We overrated our win against a poor Louth team.3 We completely underrated a very good Kildare team. 4. We are at least 7 players short of inter county standard . 5 Mc Entee is a novice manager but made of the right material for the job.(novice meaning learning).6 We may over rate some players here especially those that go missing when the chips are down So what he/they were closely marked.big deal...what else would you expect? Bulls..t excuse.Colm o Rourke and co were closely marked to but they stood up and the better the opposition the more they showed talent and grit. 7. Andy showed courage and compassion by calling the captain ashore last night.He did the same with his son against Louth. That's maybe ruthless but that is one reason why he is the man to develop into the job. 8 Progress will happen but very slowly.

nobull456 (Meath) - Posts: 1224 - 18/06/2017 13:00:37    2001066

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Replying To Analyst:  "I don't need to say anything really. For 5 years in succession I have been saying the players are not there but very few seem to be able to accept that"
that is a lazy thing to say....

ziggy32001 (Meath) - Posts: 8354 - 18/06/2017 13:02:31    2001067

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Replying To Analyst:  "I don't need to say anything really. For 5 years in succession I have been saying the players are not there but very few seem to be able to accept that"
lazy thing to say..

when a player is running with a ball and others are standing and watching,that has nothing to do with ability. all the things we were doing in the last 5 games or so,we stopped doing,because for some reason,the level of our workrate and teamwork dropped.

ziggy32001 (Meath) - Posts: 8354 - 18/06/2017 13:05:10    2001069

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Replying To grahamc9897:  "What do you suggest we do then !"
what's the point running down the team they are giving their all into a system that's is at the very early stages. body strength Wise they are not at Kildare or other teams level yet. I remember walking out of a venue very like last night in June 1985 after laois bet us about ten points, they all wanted the mangers head then and will I tell you what happen the years after. look we can go out and win the next game and take it from there. Andy has made mistakes but who has not in life he will learn from them and meath will come back stronger. There is no more passionate man then Andy he has even taken leave off work. Some so called meath supporters on here love to see meath beating so they can tell us I told you so. some of them has a club issue thing which is if their club players they think should be on are not on , also there is people who were fully behind micko o dowd and didn't like the way people were against him in the end are trying to prove a point now that we lost.

meath1977 (Meath) - Posts: 534 - 18/06/2017 13:12:25    2001075

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Replying To grahamc9897:  "What did you think of the performance then ! Sure we will just ignore that disaster and another year wasted ! Its time to be realistic !"
it was poor and I am very disappointed today. but I was not happy after the louth game either I knew Kildare would not give them the time and space louth give us. and Langford beating louth was a worry when I heard it before the game. but you don't stop doing what you are trying to do and the supporters has to leave it in the hands of the manger Andy. he has made mistakes but who has not I for one belive it wrong haveing Joe sub goalie. paddy needs some one at his toes to take the number one off him and there should be good club goalies here. but we must win next match and target four wins this year in the championship which would take us to the last eight. we have to belive we can get there. don't forget about last night but learn from it

meath1977 (Meath) - Posts: 534 - 18/06/2017 13:22:26    2001079

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Replying To ziggy32001:  "that is a lazy thing to say...."
It is not and he is right

numberedjerseys (USA) - Posts: 348 - 18/06/2017 13:29:18    2001082

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I think Menton should be made captain of the team for next year as he sets a good example.

For the next day, I'd bring another FF in to partner Lenihan, who will not hide when the going gets tough. It doesn't look like Newman is a major part of the management's plan, so Sean Tobin is probably the best option. I'd give COS the #13 shirt and let him play deeper (free role), but not where he has to collect ball in the half-back line and run half the length of the field before passing or shooting. ROC and JMcE are the best options for the half forward line along with you know who. Menton & Jones or Togher at midfield (not all three starting). I'd start Conlon as well and see how things shape up from there.

There was a time yesterday when there wasn't a single Meath player in the opposition's half of the field. Getting players back in numbers is a double-edged sword for us. They may reduce the numbers of scores conceded but scores then dry up at the other end. They need to defend well higher up the field and not drop back in numbers (defend poorly) and expect one of two players to do absolutely everything on the counter attack. Andy & co need to work out a master plan for what set up best suits the players at his disposal. They cannot play blanket defence from deep in a productive way; all out attack will leave the backs exposed, so they need the right mix of the two and stick with that. Highly specific roles for each and every player as part of the team's system of play and overall approach to the game. Getting lots of players behind the ball for the sake of it, doesn't work if they cannot tackle well and are not organised and do not play as a team, helping and supporting one another.

Dessie Dolan was saying on the radio on the way home that he hoped Westmeath would have a go at Dublin and not just set up and play in such a way so as to lose by the least possible margin (damage limitation). Meath need to take a similar approach when we play the better teams. Do not drop so deep and in such numbers that it nullifies our attacking potential, which is our main strength when players work hard and support each other. Have a go, push up and defend higher up the field, keep their shape and numbers in attack.

GlasagusOr (Meath) - Posts: 1348 - 18/06/2017 13:31:47    2001083

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When all is said, with that squad, I'd bring someone into midfield to partner Menton, push Jones to wing forward and bring in O'Coilean on the other wing. Full forward line I'd keep McMahon and Lenihan and find someone for the other corner, whether that's O'Reilly, Newman, Tobin or whoever.

icehonesty (Wexford) - Posts: 2550 - 18/06/2017 14:12:13    2001104

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But that would only leave the CHF position for either GR or COS (with the other left out, which isn't going to happen). With ROC and James McEntee as wing forwards you have players who can attack and defend. If Graham Reilly plays at #11 and COS has a free role at '13 (like Wallace use to have), I think he can be more effective closer to goal. OK his finishing and decision making has been poor, but when you run half the length of the field that is what tends to happen (tame attempts for scores) when you get close to goal, and have no support around you to offer passing options.

GlasagusOr (Meath) - Posts: 1348 - 18/06/2017 14:31:30    2001110

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Reading through this I am hearing some funny comments! Firstly yes Menton may had tried but he was demolished in midfield along with his partner! I would be afraid to go through the stats of kickouts won! Menton is a centre back or even full back and we need to put our best defenders in their best positions. That where you start when picking a team!! Donal keoghan is a top corner back and he should be playing there!! We need to look for 2 midfielders that can control midfield!! We are badly lacking there!! Burke is not a corner back but is a good man to cancel out a good player who usually pulls the strings like Kelly yesterday! I would have him as a specialist player but not a corner back!!! Hard to judge the forwards yesterday and that is Andy Mc's fault because we had absolutely no real structure or plan except try a blanket defence that they obviously did not even practice very much!! Very poor coaching done with the team and they looked bad because of it! COS was running aimlessly at the Kildare defender and lost it more times than not! But had no one running off the shoulder or looking for the ball!! When we were 7 points down I looked up and saw 2 Kildare sweepers in the back line but they had nobody to sweep!!! Not one Meath man inside the Kildare 45!! Shocking!! And the only other tactic from the management from what I could see was to tell the players NOT to go for goals!!!! They did not even bother having a go!! They must have been told to try and go out and score 27 points again but against a well coached Kildare team who are no fools!! And finally.......what was the Meath warmup all about???? I've seen easier preseason training sessions!!! Way too much running and long distance runs too!! The hottest day of the year.....you should be doing very little to get your second wind! Kildare did a long warmup too but it was not too strenuous and very short times for each drill! Management need to learn quick!!

JonnieG (Meath) - Posts: 218 - 18/06/2017 14:34:56    2001112

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