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Will Leinster ever be competitive again?

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Last week a first choice Kildare team were beaten by a superior Dublin third string side, with a reserve manager. Although you could argue Kildare football is dead and has been since the concession of 7 goals in 35 minutes in a championship game as well as numberous pummelling at the hands of Dublin, the argument could be made that the rest of Leinster not much better or worse. Why the gap? Finance makes a difference, yes, but take a drive around county Dublin on a Saturday morning and look at the numbers of kids at training. Take a look at the volunteers giving the training. The standard and coherence of coaching right down to u10 is top class and it is all about developing a player. Dublin was a soccer city in the 90s and the county team suffered badly for 10 years. How they have turned it around is incredible. Some of the best football you'll see all year is the Dublin SFC. The likes of Vincent's and Brigids have better squads than a lot of Leinster county teams. Does any other county on Leinster have it in themselves to bridge the gap? I can only speak for my own county and to be honest I think football is finished at senior level in Kildare. The minor and u21 Leinster championships have papered over the cracks and on every occasion Kildare were shown up badly at all Ireland quarter and semi finals. The Dubs haven't been taking these grades seriously the last few years either. Kildares problems are deep seated aswell. No all Ireland at any level since 1956. Despite what we like to think of ourselves here there is no culture of football success despite the huge population. It would take a revolution from grass roots up. But with the county board treating clubs like peasants since the Micko days, the drive and appetite isn't in the county to make any changes. Daith (Kildare) - Posts: 1171 - 28/01/2017 11:39:57 1949396 Link
I had posted the related comments below in another thread earlier Daith... Leinster's problems today are predicted to be national ones tomorrow. What the GAA have done to revive Leinster is atrocious. Only Westmeath have managed to punch their weight when the two counties who might have some prospect of competing have been left floundering, continually rebuilding under one manager or the next with no end to that. Supporters are voting with their feet and their wallets. All the blood has been forced to the head and the other organs are being left to die. The patient will follow. Heard that stuff on Matt Cooper about the role of funding in the Dubs success and the systematic bias which has been at play for almost a decade (which isn't news to most), with no sign of a change to level the playing field. Apparently the Dublin CB would have to refuse the money, money they don't even need anymore due to alternative commercial funding. We all know about the advantages the Dubs have in terms of collective training, and no one can deny that the money hasn't been well spent, but in the long term not addressing both the natural and artificial imbalances will only lead to the destruction of the game as it's organised today. Kerry, Mayo and Donegal have papered over the cracks and given the impression that the All-Ireland is a genuine competition, but another double by the Dubs this year would leave the AI championship going the way of Leinster. I don't blame the Dubs for doing a brilliant job with what's been coming their way, but there were far sighted people who foresaw Leinster becoming a one horse race and who now are saying that in spite of the talent at underage in other counties, the gap at senior level will only get bigger over time. Is it a case that this is what the GAA wants? Even the most ardent Dubs supporter will want the AI to remain a real achievement, but it could be that these years are the last ones where this is so, before even the likes of Kerry get burned off. Who wants a shambolic championship? Your comment about kids and coaching is not so straight forward. Demographically there are proportionately more young parents and kids in and around Dublin than the rest of the country following the jobs. These parents come from all over, but naturally their sons and daughters are Dubs. Some kids of Dub parentage who live in neighbouring counties still maintain a Dublin allegiance, so it's not a simple two way street. None of this is the fault of the GAA, but all factors need to be taken into account when plans are drawn up. Pericles (Mayo) - Posts: 2521 - 28/01/2017 13:26:48 1949412 Link
Is it really a Leinster problem or just unlucky that these counties happen to be in Leinster ? What I mean is if you swap all The Connaught teams besides Mayo with the Leinster teams we would still walk the Leinster championship like wise if you swap the Munster counties besides Kerry with Leinster counties Dublin would still walk the championship, so i think Daith's problem is more his county than anything else. clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 28/01/2017 14:19:38 1949422 Link
As someone who watched very competitive Leinster championships through the 80s - 00s it is sad to see the state of the competition now. Dublin were 1/100 to win every game last year. It is a complete dead rubber now. bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4624 - 28/01/2017 14:23:52 1949425 Link
If Leinster is fecked what chance have the rest of got? KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 28/01/2017 14:27:53 1949429 Link
To be fair it does seem dead.I don't think i'm the only Dub who doesn't attend Leinster games anymore where one of the main talking points is whether Dublin beat an ever increasing handicap spread (usually around 15 points.)It's hard to see Dublin not winning 4/5 Leinsters (maybe 5) and with the work going on with our underage teams it will be hard for a team to knock us off our perch.I can empathise with lack of hope and what seems like despair in so many of my fellow gaels.I'm not sure what the answer is.Stopping funding at this stage may be like closing the stable door after the horse has bolted.And that horse is Red Rum,Denman and Shergar all rolled into one. cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 28/01/2017 14:34:22 1949431 Link
Replying To clondalkindub: "Is it really a Leinster problem or just unlucky that these counties happen to be in Leinster ? What I mean is if you swap all The Connaught teams besides Mayo with the Leinster teams we would still walk the Leinster championship like wise if you swap the Munster counties besides Kerry with Leinster counties Dublin would still walk the championship, so i think Daith's problem is more his county than anything else." It is a Kildare problem alright - they aren't getting the 50% of all GAA funding like their neighour is!!!! Seriously, Clondalkin and the other Dubs on here, its about time you at least acknowledge that the GAA has created an artificial situation which has facilitated Dublin becoming successful at the expense of the rest. No one is blaming Dublin for taking money that's being handed to them, but to try and deflect or dismiss the massive impact it has had on your current success is just not an option for ye anymore. The cat's out of the bag and there is going to be a reckoning at Congress sooner rather than later. TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 6354 - 28/01/2017 14:36:07 1949433 Link
Slightly on a tangent, this is why I think it is completely foolhardy at this stage to propose bringing forward the All Ireland final to August. It is putting the cart before the horse. We have die hard Gaels on here saying they don't go to Leinster championship games and find it hard to retain interest in it. Imagine how much more disengaged are run of the mill GAA fans. Before tinkering with bringing forward the All Ireland final, it is of utmost importance that the championship structure, and the imbalances it contains, is sorted out first -- otherwise the majority of the public will only start to become interested in the championship for no more about 4 weeks from early July to early August. That would be a recipe for keeping interest in our games to an absolute minimum and handing the initiative to other sports. PoolSturgeon (Galway) - Posts: 1903 - 28/01/2017 15:48:08 1949451 Link
Replying To TheHermit: "It is a Kildare problem alright - they aren't getting the 50% of all GAA funding like their neighour is!!!! Seriously, Clondalkin and the other Dubs on here, its about time you at least acknowledge that the GAA has created an artificial situation which has facilitated Dublin becoming successful at the expense of the rest. No one is blaming Dublin for taking money that's being handed to them, but to try and deflect or dismiss the massive impact it has had on your current success is just not an option for ye anymore. The cat's out of the bag and there is going to be a reckoning at Congress sooner rather than later." Look, fair play to the Dubs for getting their house in order. However, there is an even bigger problem than the financial side of things. Gaelic football has evolved into a game where successful teams have two or three exceptionally skillful lads backboned by exceptional athletes who do the hard yards to create the space and chances. Unfortunately, whereas skill can be coached, athletic ability and physique are attributes that you are born with. Now it would make sense that such specimens would appear proportionately in the population. How then can the likes of Longford, with perhaps 550 men to pick from (35 clubs) expect to produce a team to compete equally with Dublin and it's million and half population? I don't know what the solution is but although teams like Monaghan may produce a generation of brutish giants to complement their star forward, such generations will not last forever. Dublin with their massive population will remain a dominant force for good. The championship will become Dublin and kerry/Mayo, with their bye into the latter stages, competing with counties who happen to produce a golden generation! Solutions to this dilemma will be hard come by. sceptical (Cavan) - Posts: 544 - 28/01/2017 15:50:56 1949452 Link
All the provinces need to be restructured. Mayo, Kerry, Cork, Galway and Dublin currently have an unfair advantage over the teams in Ulster. Whatever about Leinster this decade, some of the afore mentioned counties have been cake walking it for decadfes, you could divide their all Ireland haul by 50 if they had played in a different province. Its Ulster who are margnilised, i really rate any of their all ireland wins as opposed to others. Hopefully the new structure will help alleviate this and there will be no more hiding in the long grass. TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 28/01/2017 17:12:40 1949469 Link
Replying To TheHermit: "It is a Kildare problem alright - they aren't getting the 50% of all GAA funding like their neighour is!!!! Seriously, Clondalkin and the other Dubs on here, its about time you at least acknowledge that the GAA has created an artificial situation which has facilitated Dublin becoming successful at the expense of the rest. No one is blaming Dublin for taking money that's being handed to them, but to try and deflect or dismiss the massive impact it has had on your current success is just not an option for ye anymore. The cat's out of the bag and there is going to be a reckoning at Congress sooner rather than later." oh so bitter !!l lol.... superbluedub (Dublin) - Posts: 2837 - 28/01/2017 17:19:00 1949471 Link
Replying To superbluedub: "oh so bitter !!l lol...." Bitter at stating the facts? The facts are a Dublin kid on average receives €274 per annum in comparison Kerry kid gets €19, Donegal €20, Tyrone €21 Mayo €22 This is before we talk about free top class infrastructure and training facilities, every game at home which gets refs onside, enormous sponsorship resulting in free cars and other such perks, no having to travel half the country for training because the Government decides to let rural Ireland die and wither and the GAA have shamefully betrayed their traditions and followed suit But yeah it's just bitterness from the rest.................................... BlueGolconda (Dublin) - Posts: 39 - 28/01/2017 17:38:20 1949483 Link
Replying To superbluedub: "oh so bitter !!l lol...." Thanks for proving my point, another resident of La La Land... TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 6354 - 28/01/2017 17:38:44 1949485 Link
Replying To TheUsername: "All the provinces need to be restructured. Mayo, Kerry, Cork, Galway and Dublin currently have an unfair advantage over the teams in Ulster. Whatever about Leinster this decade, some of the afore mentioned counties have been cake walking it for decadfes, you could divide their all Ireland haul by 50 if they had played in a different province. Its Ulster who are margnilised, i really rate any of their all ireland wins as opposed to others. Hopefully the new structure will help alleviate this and there will be no more hiding in the long grass." More spin as usual from the Dubs cant accept all the advantages they have been handed by the GAA Money, Population , Home Games in perpetuity, Sponsorship need I go on....................... BlueGolconda (Dublin) - Posts: 39 - 28/01/2017 17:41:19 1949487 Link
A Kerryman crying when all they have to do Is win 2 games against hurling counties and their in an all Ireland quarter final. clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 28/01/2017 17:48:41 1949489 Link
Replying To clondalkindub: "A Kerryman crying when all they have to do Is win 2 games against hurling counties and their in an all Ireland quarter final." You do realise that there has perhaps never since the end of the Second World War has there been a provincial championship that has been weaker than Lesinter for most of the last decade. That retort of yours is quite bizarre given the above and very obvious fact... TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 6354 - 28/01/2017 18:06:20 1949493 Link
Replying To BlueGolconda: "More spin as usual from the Dubs cant accept all the advantages they have been handed by the GAA Money, Population , Home Games in perpetuity, Sponsorship need I go on......................." Dry your eyes lad. superbluedub (Dublin) - Posts: 2837 - 28/01/2017 18:16:36 1949497 Link
Replying To superbluedub: "Dry your eyes lad." Typical dub going after the eyes. KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 28/01/2017 18:37:18 1949502 Link
Look at the end of the day you can't buy a Connolly, a Flynn, a Cluxton etc. But the money is a serious serious help. I think they would have won the Leinster anyway, maybe not as many All Irelands. But the funding is certainly a huge help and only makes the gap wider. The level of facilities in Dublin for GAA (like everything else) is incomparable with the rest of the country, bar maybe Tyrone's center of excellence which is top class. The reality is the facilities are better in Dublin, there is a population of about 20 % of the country. Young lads don't have to leave for college. It makes a gigantic difference. Surely with all the money invested in Dublin it is time for the GAA to invest in counties that are struggling. Even ye Dubs can realize that. The GAA will have to act as the game dies and dies in smaller counties. Either that or split Dublin up .... LeitrimRoyal99 (Meath) - Posts: 1458 - 28/01/2017 19:00:07 1949515 Link
Kerry have won 78 Munster championships Dublin have won 55 Leinster championships clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 28/01/2017 19:02:49 1949519 Link