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Watching the 2 hurling quarter finals on Sunday, one thing which hugely bothered me (apart from the Wexford result) was just how constantly stop-start the games were. In both games, there was constant stoppages due to Hawk Eye, players being attended to, substitutions, referees not allowing quick puck outs, etc. Players went down injured and on came the nee naw brigade with the bag, gave the injured player a drink of water and a pat on the back and up he got and play went on well over a minute later.
Hawk Eye seems to take 1-2 minutes per go, and 1 of the points was about 1 foot inside the post. What was the umpire seeing at all? If he can't call one like that he should not be on the post. And then, at 1 point, the 4th official waited till Hawk Eye was finished before making a sub. For crying out loud get on with it, get the sub made while we are waiting for Hawk Eye.
For me, all these stoppages are ruining the game as a spectacle. Games no longer have the momentum they once had. Looking back to games even 10 years ago, the number of injury stoppages was minimal.
For me, the game needs to be sped up unless we want stop-start games with no momentum. I don't mind a clearly injured player (as Eoin Moore was) being attended to, but for me other players need to be got off the pitch, attended to on the sideline or attended to while the game goes on. I know it is at referees discretion to stop the game but they more often than not do just that.
I also believe it is time for 2 referees, it would mean a referee can be in either half so the quick puck out becomes the norm.
Anything we can do to speed up our game, the better! What do people think?
Pinkie (Wexford) - Posts: 4100 - 28/07/2016 08:42:22
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Replying To Pinkie: "Watching the 2 hurling quarter finals on Sunday, one thing which hugely bothered me (apart from the Wexford result) was just how constantly stop-start the games were. In both games, there was constant stoppages due to Hawk Eye, players being attended to, substitutions, referees not allowing quick puck outs, etc. Players went down injured and on came the nee naw brigade with the bag, gave the injured player a drink of water and a pat on the back and up he got and play went on well over a minute later.
Hawk Eye seems to take 1-2 minutes per go, and 1 of the points was about 1 foot inside the post. What was the umpire seeing at all? If he can't call one like that he should not be on the post. And then, at 1 point, the 4th official waited till Hawk Eye was finished before making a sub. For crying out loud get on with it, get the sub made while we are waiting for Hawk Eye.
For me, all these stoppages are ruining the game as a spectacle. Games no longer have the momentum they once had. Looking back to games even 10 years ago, the number of injury stoppages was minimal.
For me, the game needs to be sped up unless we want stop-start games with no momentum. I don't mind a clearly injured player (as Eoin Moore was) being attended to, but for me other players need to be got off the pitch, attended to on the sideline or attended to while the game goes on. I know it is at referees discretion to stop the game but they more often than not do just that.
I also believe it is time for 2 referees, it would mean a referee can be in either half so the quick puck out becomes the norm.
Anything we can do to speed up our game, the better! What do people think?" Take the hand out of hurling, make it all stick work. these days once a player catches the ball it will 90% of the time be played safely through the hands to the next player and on until some one takes a shot. this is leading to 40 to 50 scores in a lot of games plus 15 to 20 wides. This alone outside of frees and sidelines makes the game very stop starty. Ground hurling is gone, it just doesn't make sense any more to dirve 50/50 balls alone the ground.
Obviously my suggestion is extreme but wouldn't it be interesting to see experimented with in a pre season tournament. You would really see the skillful players come to the fore then. Maybe banning the hand pass would be an interesting half way measure to experiment with.
dahayeser (Cork) - Posts: 337 - 28/07/2016 09:39:21
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Replying To dahayeser: "Take the hand out of hurling, make it all stick work. these days once a player catches the ball it will 90% of the time be played safely through the hands to the next player and on until some one takes a shot. this is leading to 40 to 50 scores in a lot of games plus 15 to 20 wides. This alone outside of frees and sidelines makes the game very stop starty. Ground hurling is gone, it just doesn't make sense any more to dirve 50/50 balls alone the ground.
Obviously my suggestion is extreme but wouldn't it be interesting to see experimented with in a pre season tournament. You would really see the skillful players come to the fore then. Maybe banning the hand pass would be an interesting half way measure to experiment with." The sport you are suggesting already exists as you know and it's called shinty. And my god it is awful to watch.
mike03 (Limerick) - Posts: 2000 - 28/07/2016 10:28:35
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The modern 'obsession with possession' is more to blame than hawk eye or medical breaks for injured players in my opinion.In the two games last Sunday I saw one player execute a perfect ground stroke, Joe Canning.
Condorman (Dublin) - Posts: 983 - 28/07/2016 11:29:26
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Enforce the hand pass rule properly - clear strike of the ball and it must leave the hand. No more shoving of the ball
manfromdelmonte (UK) - Posts: 541 - 28/07/2016 11:32:48
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Nothing wrong with the game. Having watched the U21 Munster final last night, I think you'll soon see the likes of Clare & Waterford revert back to a more straight forward gameplan in the near future.
keeper7 (Longford) - Posts: 4088 - 28/07/2016 14:31:59
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Pinkie (Wexford) -
Players went down injured and on came the nee naw brigade with the bag, gave the injured player a drink of water and a pat on the back and up he got and play went on well over a minute later.
I've noticed more of this in recent years. It's a tactic that can be used to waste time, or if a team is under sustained pressure for a period of time, it can be used to try and stop the momentum of the opposition, plus giving the team under pressure a breather.
Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2466 - 28/07/2016 17:39:45
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Replying To manfromdelmonte: "Enforce the hand pass rule properly - clear strike of the ball and it must leave the hand. No more shoving of the ball" Yeah it's insane. Most 'hand passes' are blatant throws of the sliothar.
The refs are completely conned by the under hand throw but they sometimes catch the throw when the player raises his arm before throwing, typically when he is bottled up by two or three opposition players.
Killarney.87 (Tipperary) - Posts: 2513 - 28/07/2016 20:17:28
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Replying To manfromdelmonte: "Enforce the hand pass rule properly - clear strike of the ball and it must leave the hand. No more shoving of the ball" Good point, very true. A good portion of hand passes in inter-county games are now really just throws/shoves, and that needs to be cracked down. I'm starting to hear alot more people complain about it. However, you'd have to crack down on the use of the free hand in tandem, with regard to grabbing/holding a players hand as he's getting the pass off.
Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 28/07/2016 21:50:16
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The best 3 game of hurling I have witnessed 2009, 2010, 2014 (Drawn) finals.
Why?
Traditional man to man hurling (No defensive tactics)
Played fairly
Pure Skill
No silly stoppages
Ref let the game go also
Hurling now has become desperate. Slow, lathergic, hand passing, boring
30000 in thurles last week? Shambolic, praying for a kilkenny tipp final
222 (UK) - Posts: 693 - 28/07/2016 22:31:24
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Replying To 222: "The best 3 game of hurling I have witnessed 2009, 2010, 2014 (Drawn) finals.
Why?
Traditional man to man hurling (No defensive tactics)
Played fairly
Pure Skill
No silly stoppages
Ref let the game go also
Hurling now has become desperate. Slow, lathergic, hand passing, boring
30000 in thurles last week? Shambolic, praying for a kilkenny tipp final" agree with the original sentiment,but i will gladly see a waterford galway final.
i think we just need players to get up and get on with the game.it is definitely impacting on crowds.games just aint as entertaining as they were 10-20 years ago.
perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 29/07/2016 14:27:58
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Replying To Pinkie: "Watching the 2 hurling quarter finals on Sunday, one thing which hugely bothered me (apart from the Wexford result) was just how constantly stop-start the games were. In both games, there was constant stoppages due to Hawk Eye, players being attended to, substitutions, referees not allowing quick puck outs, etc. Players went down injured and on came the nee naw brigade with the bag, gave the injured player a drink of water and a pat on the back and up he got and play went on well over a minute later.
Hawk Eye seems to take 1-2 minutes per go, and 1 of the points was about 1 foot inside the post. What was the umpire seeing at all? If he can't call one like that he should not be on the post. And then, at 1 point, the 4th official waited till Hawk Eye was finished before making a sub. For crying out loud get on with it, get the sub made while we are waiting for Hawk Eye.
For me, all these stoppages are ruining the game as a spectacle. Games no longer have the momentum they once had. Looking back to games even 10 years ago, the number of injury stoppages was minimal.
For me, the game needs to be sped up unless we want stop-start games with no momentum. I don't mind a clearly injured player (as Eoin Moore was) being attended to, but for me other players need to be got off the pitch, attended to on the sideline or attended to while the game goes on. I know it is at referees discretion to stop the game but they more often than not do just that.
I also believe it is time for 2 referees, it would mean a referee can be in either half so the quick puck out becomes the norm.
Anything we can do to speed up our game, the better! What do people think?" This is exactly correct. Also there is no question with the speed of hurling that two refs should be used. The argument that they may be inconsistent will be off set by the single ref not having to make a call from 70 meters away looking forward or often looking back. Off the ball incidents will disappear.
It works in ice hockey and in games where one ref is lenient they other is also. Or if one is calling everything the other is also. They work as a team. The argument that there are umpires and lines men does not add up. They seem to have no authority anyway and the umpires can not see a shot 1foot inside the post. Get rid of these jobs for the boys umpires. Improve the technology for instant call and use a green light to denote a score.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2660 - 29/07/2016 15:29:57
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Replying To dahayeser: "Take the hand out of hurling, make it all stick work. these days once a player catches the ball it will 90% of the time be played safely through the hands to the next player and on until some one takes a shot. this is leading to 40 to 50 scores in a lot of games plus 15 to 20 wides. This alone outside of frees and sidelines makes the game very stop starty. Ground hurling is gone, it just doesn't make sense any more to dirve 50/50 balls alone the ground.
Obviously my suggestion is extreme but wouldn't it be interesting to see experimented with in a pre season tournament. You would really see the skillful players come to the fore then. Maybe banning the hand pass would be an interesting half way measure to experiment with." Again would have to agree with this. Maybe one hand proper hand pass and the next has to be as tricking action.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2660 - 29/07/2016 15:32:07
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Question to waterford posters.
Where exactly are they going under derek mc grath? Unless he has a master plan he will play the exact same tactics sunday week against the cats as last year. I fully expect kilkenny to beat waterford by 3-7 points. Murphy will have a field day mopping up loose ball, kilkenny midfield will also be to strong.
For the life of God wateford would hold their own with man to man hurling with the caliber of forwards they have.
222 (UK) - Posts: 693 - 29/07/2016 16:36:09
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Replying To 222: "Question to waterford posters.
Where exactly are they going under derek mc grath? Unless he has a master plan he will play the exact same tactics sunday week against the cats as last year. I fully expect kilkenny to beat waterford by 3-7 points. Murphy will have a field day mopping up loose ball, kilkenny midfield will also be to strong.
For the life of God wateford would hold their own with man to man hurling with the caliber of forwards they have." Can you name 1 game bar the munster final this year in the last 2 years where the system didnt work well? Where is mcgrath going? 2 league finals back to back..munster final..2 all ireland semi finals back to back...brought up 12/13 u21 players into senior panel...some of them pivitol for the seniors..rome wasnt built in a day .when mcgrath took over there was a 5 year plan..we are a couple of years ahead of that plan. Ive no doubt theres an all ireland for waterford in next 3 years...and mcgrath to thank for it.
juniorjudge (Waterford) - Posts: 383 - 29/07/2016 17:00:47
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Replying To mike03: "The sport you are suggesting already exists as you know and it's called shinty. And my god it is awful to watch." To be fair removing the hand from hurling would non make shinty or anything like it. It's a completely different stick and skill set. The hurlers that play the compromise game with the scots look clumsy because stick work isn't something they practice extensively for modern day hurling. It's all about winning and maintaining possession. These hurlers are also selected from the lower tiers for the most part.
Look I am half saying this tongue in cheek, it would obviously be too drastic but some limitation of the the catching or hand passing would make maintaining possession more difficult resulting in more stick work and lower scoring games. I was at Cork v Dublin a few weeks ago and there was no atmosphere or pattern to the game. It ended up 1-26 to 1-23 with a good shot of wides too. We spent most of the time waiting for the ball to be pucked out.
dahayeser (Cork) - Posts: 337 - 29/07/2016 17:50:49
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Replying To juniorjudge: "Can you name 1 game bar the munster final this year in the last 2 years where the system didnt work well? Where is mcgrath going? 2 league finals back to back..munster final..2 all ireland semi finals back to back...brought up 12/13 u21 players into senior panel...some of them pivitol for the seniors..rome wasnt built in a day .when mcgrath took over there was a 5 year plan..we are a couple of years ahead of that plan. Ive no doubt theres an all ireland for waterford in next 3 years...and mcgrath to thank for it." The system has worked for two years with two league finals and now two All Ireland semi finals. One league won and the best team in the other. These players are young and the system will evolve to suit their maturity when the most of them average 25/26 years old. The team of the turn of the century were criticized by the pundits because they were not good enough at defending. There will always be people who want to keep the under dog down but also people who want them to succeed.
The under 21 team play different because they are playing in their own age group and less likely to pushed around one on one. Derek has had success at colleges and given time he will evolve the style of both these teams. However saying all that the process needs to begin as immediate success will not happen when the change comes. One man up front looks a little bit of a "Hail Mary" practice. Superman won't out muscle three defenders to score.
Again not not critical of Derek but hope to see the evolution of this team begin against Kilkenny.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2660 - 29/07/2016 19:09:48
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Replying To dahayeser: "To be fair removing the hand from hurling would non make shinty or anything like it. It's a completely different stick and skill set. The hurlers that play the compromise game with the scots look clumsy because stick work isn't something they practice extensively for modern day hurling. It's all about winning and maintaining possession. These hurlers are also selected from the lower tiers for the most part.
Look I am half saying this tongue in cheek, it would obviously be too drastic but some limitation of the the catching or hand passing would make maintaining possession more difficult resulting in more stick work and lower scoring games. I was at Cork v Dublin a few weeks ago and there was no atmosphere or pattern to the game. It ended up 1-26 to 1-23 with a good shot of wides too. We spent most of the time waiting for the ball to be pucked out." Allow the player just to handle the ball once...3 or 4 steps whatever . Hurling is stillfull but has become more physical/brutish over the last few years.
crikey (Australia) - Posts: 355 - 30/07/2016 02:13:52
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Replying To Pinkie: "Watching the 2 hurling quarter finals on Sunday, one thing which hugely bothered me (apart from the Wexford result) was just how constantly stop-start the games were. In both games, there was constant stoppages due to Hawk Eye, players being attended to, substitutions, referees not allowing quick puck outs, etc. Players went down injured and on came the nee naw brigade with the bag, gave the injured player a drink of water and a pat on the back and up he got and play went on well over a minute later.
Hawk Eye seems to take 1-2 minutes per go, and 1 of the points was about 1 foot inside the post. What was the umpire seeing at all? If he can't call one like that he should not be on the post. And then, at 1 point, the 4th official waited till Hawk Eye was finished before making a sub. For crying out loud get on with it, get the sub made while we are waiting for Hawk Eye.
For me, all these stoppages are ruining the game as a spectacle. Games no longer have the momentum they once had. Looking back to games even 10 years ago, the number of injury stoppages was minimal.
For me, the game needs to be sped up unless we want stop-start games with no momentum. I don't mind a clearly injured player (as Eoin Moore was) being attended to, but for me other players need to be got off the pitch, attended to on the sideline or attended to while the game goes on. I know it is at referees discretion to stop the game but they more often than not do just that.
I also believe it is time for 2 referees, it would mean a referee can be in either half so the quick puck out becomes the norm.
Anything we can do to speed up our game, the better! What do people think?" Regarding the need to use halk eye, I have always found it amazing that in both football and hurling the ball is exactly the same colour as the posts. Also having umpired in matches I think referees are usually in a better position to judge whether points have been scored than umpires. As regards watching matches, I don't like watching teams like Waterford play, their defensive style is boring.
bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1349 - 30/07/2016 08:03:51
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