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Cavan and Roscommon- deluded?

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A demoralizing few weeks for long suffering fans of Cavan and Roscommon. 2 football mad counties where Gaelic football is utterly dominant. Excellent underage work has been done in recent years but it simply doesn't appear to be transforming onto the senior stage right now. Both teams had productive league campaigns but did they prioritize this and thus peak 3 months too soon?

Probably the most passionate sets of supporters on the island but are they deluded in thinking they can ever mix it with the top dogs? Both counties face major population challenges, is it really feasible for Cavan or Roscommon to ever again make an All Ireland final? Yes, Cavan were once undisputed kings of Ulster and won the province for fun but unfortunately a cold hard fact is 1 provincial title since 1970- the same number as Leitrim and Clare!

GallantJohnJoe (Cavan) - Posts: 329 - 17/07/2016 23:27:47    1885111

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Cavan were reduced to 14 men for half the game and lost by 2 points - If it weren't for that petulance they could have won, had a reasonable draw next week and realistic chance of a quarter final- maybe an outside chance of a semi if they got Galway ( not sure what way draw would have worked) - so hardly doom and gloom - as regards Riscommon are they not in final 12 ?

ruanua (Donegal) - Posts: 4966 - 17/07/2016 23:38:33    1885133

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Replying To ruanua:  "Cavan were reduced to 14 men for half the game and lost by 2 points - If it weren't for that petulance they could have won, had a reasonable draw next week and realistic chance of a quarter final- maybe an outside chance of a semi if they got Galway ( not sure what way draw would have worked) - so hardly doom and gloom - as regards Riscommon are they not in final 12 ?"
Roscommon were beaten out the gate by a team they felt they were the equal of. Just like Cavan 2 weeks previous. Both counties have had major reality checks this summer.

GallantJohnJoe (Cavan) - Posts: 329 - 17/07/2016 23:53:18    1885147

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Roscommon fans get far too carried away with a modest amount of underage success and spend far too much time looking enviously westward for their own good. For all the talent they supposedly spawned in the past ten years at underage levels, how many u-21 All Ireland's did they win? Nada. Mayo won two in the same period yet according to many of their fans we're bottlers etc. Likewise, their former manager filled their heads with rubbish about winning All-Ireland's before they'd even won a provincial title at senior level. I'm delighted that Galway stuffed them out the gate, no doubt it will only keep them quiet until next autumn, when the jibber jabber will get going again. Just 15 years and counting since you last beat Mayo in championship lads, and you were poxy enough that time as well.

Gleebo (Mayo) - Posts: 2208 - 17/07/2016 23:54:23    1885149

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Replying To GallantJohnJoe:  "Roscommon were beaten out the gate by a team they felt they were the equal of. Just like Cavan 2 weeks previous. Both counties have had major reality checks this summer."
The same side that cruised past you in second Gear in the league final and conceded 3 sloppy goals and still drew in the first game - what im saying is Cavan have made great progress in getting to Division 1 - they should have realistic hopes of getting to a quarter final - but on what basis do you think they would beat a top 4 team or win an all Ireland - did people genuinely expect that ?

ruanua (Donegal) - Posts: 4966 - 18/07/2016 00:01:03    1885154

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In relation to Roscommon I think it's just as much or so called "Dream Team" management as the media called them the are flipping deluded.The four most naturally talented players in the county and potentially some of best players our small county has ever produced either not started or not in 26(Two Smiths,Murtagh and Harney)
I don't doubt we have potential but unless FOD walks away NOW for good of the county and give McStay and McHale a shot.

Pingcity (Longford) - Posts: 568 - 18/07/2016 00:26:25    1885164

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In galway, we won under 21 all Ireland's in 02, 05, 11 and 13, as well as minor in 07, but haven't made a semi since 01. Neither Cavan or Roscommon won any underage all Ireland's, only provincial. It goes to show the gap between underage and senior. I think cavan and roscommon fans just need to be patient and these teams will come good. What happened to roscommon yesterday can be the best thing for them. Look at galway v mayo in 13. Galway for years were losing to the likes of wexford and antrim by 1point, but that Mayo defeat did more good for this team than any underage success.

galwaydublin (Galway) - Posts: 226 - 18/07/2016 05:58:47    1885192

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I don't know much about Cavan but from what I have seen of Roscomon....they are about as useful as a chocolate teapot in a serious game.
I saw them against Mayo in the league and was not impressed and against Kerry in Croke Park. By all account's NY should have beaten them and I saw them yesterday in the flesh. Some of their fans are blaming management but for as long as I rememeber that has been the case.

That said should they beat Clare they are in a quarter final so that can be considered a great year for them coupled with staying in division 1.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11231 - 18/07/2016 09:21:39    1885228

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Replying To galwaydublin:  "In galway, we won under 21 all Ireland's in 02, 05, 11 and 13, as well as minor in 07, but haven't made a semi since 01. Neither Cavan or Roscommon won any underage all Ireland's, only provincial. It goes to show the gap between underage and senior. I think cavan and roscommon fans just need to be patient and these teams will come good. What happened to roscommon yesterday can be the best thing for them. Look at galway v mayo in 13. Galway for years were losing to the likes of wexford and antrim by 1point, but that Mayo defeat did more good for this team than any underage success."
Problem is that this has been said about the Sligo defeat last year and the defeats to Tyrone in the qualifiers and the defeat to Mayo back in 2014 (when they really should have won the game). Roscommon need to reproduce their league form in a championship game against serious opposition before they can be taken seriously as a coming side.

Gleebo (Mayo) - Posts: 2208 - 18/07/2016 10:34:43    1885305

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Replying To Gleebo:  "Roscommon fans get far too carried away with a modest amount of underage success and spend far too much time looking enviously westward for their own good. For all the talent they supposedly spawned in the past ten years at underage levels, how many u-21 All Ireland's did they win? Nada. Mayo won two in the same period yet according to many of their fans we're bottlers etc. Likewise, their former manager filled their heads with rubbish about winning All-Ireland's before they'd even won a provincial title at senior level. I'm delighted that Galway stuffed them out the gate, no doubt it will only keep them quiet until next autumn, when the jibber jabber will get going again. Just 15 years and counting since you last beat Mayo in championship lads, and you were poxy enough that time as well."
I wouldn't be getting to far ahead of yourself slagging Roscommon. You have a total of one All Ireland more than them. Roscommon may be the provinces third tier, but Mayo can't be holding the high ground over anyone, still being the poor relation of those just south of them. Always found the petty squabbling that goes on between Mayo and Roscommon over the years quite cute. Kinda like the little brothers fighting before eventually the eldest child swipes them both out of the way for annoying him

jafallon (Galway) - Posts: 489 - 18/07/2016 11:14:02    1885348

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Replying To jafallon:  "I wouldn't be getting to far ahead of yourself slagging Roscommon. You have a total of one All Ireland more than them. Roscommon may be the provinces third tier, but Mayo can't be holding the high ground over anyone, still being the poor relation of those just south of them. Always found the petty squabbling that goes on between Mayo and Roscommon over the years quite cute. Kinda like the little brothers fighting before eventually the eldest child swipes them both out of the way for annoying him"
jafallon if Mayo and Roscommon are mere minnows in the eyes of Galway then why are ye getting go giddy with excitement in beating us?
The talk of "Galway being magical in Croke Park" on the Sunday game last night made me smile. Ye have not won a game there since 2001. All be it I except ye to win the quarter final this year.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11231 - 18/07/2016 11:33:10    1885371

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Replying To jafallon:  "I wouldn't be getting to far ahead of yourself slagging Roscommon. You have a total of one All Ireland more than them. Roscommon may be the provinces third tier, but Mayo can't be holding the high ground over anyone, still being the poor relation of those just south of them. Always found the petty squabbling that goes on between Mayo and Roscommon over the years quite cute. Kinda like the little brothers fighting before eventually the eldest child swipes them both out of the way for annoying him"
That would be very believable if your fans didn't nearly wet themselves with the excitement of beating Mayo for the first time in nearly a decade a few weeks back.

Gleebo (Mayo) - Posts: 2208 - 18/07/2016 11:43:28    1885387

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Replying To yew_tree:  "jafallon if Mayo and Roscommon are mere minnows in the eyes of Galway then why are ye getting go giddy with excitement in beating us?
The talk of "Galway being magical in Croke Park" on the Sunday game last night made me smile. Ye have not won a game there since 2001. All be it I except ye to win the quarter final this year."
Because obviously yeve been good recently and we've been crap. Just because one county is generally stronger doesn't mean the other won't have periods of dominance. There's too much going on in Galway (hurling, rugby, soccer, the fun capital of Ireland) to churn out dedicated successful teams year after year. I'm not saying you're minnows, but you know fine well you're comfortably in Galways shadow historically. That's why it's funny to see someone slagging Roscommon so relentlessly, when your closest neighbour can turn around and do the same to you. Stinks of pettiness

jafallon (Galway) - Posts: 489 - 18/07/2016 12:16:33    1885418

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Replying To jafallon:  "Because obviously yeve been good recently and we've been crap. Just because one county is generally stronger doesn't mean the other won't have periods of dominance. There's too much going on in Galway (hurling, rugby, soccer, the fun capital of Ireland) to churn out dedicated successful teams year after year. I'm not saying you're minnows, but you know fine well you're comfortably in Galways shadow historically. That's why it's funny to see someone slagging Roscommon so relentlessly, when your closest neighbour can turn around and do the same to you. Stinks of pettiness"
Not really the same thing though, is it? Galway are certainly far ahead of Mayo on the All-Ireland roll of honour, but the head to head record is fairly closely matched and we are still ahead of Galway on the provincial roll of honour. To pretend that Galway don't buy in to the rivalry with Mayo is far-fetched.

Gleebo (Mayo) - Posts: 2208 - 18/07/2016 12:31:25    1885427

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jafallon when it comes to All Ireland's ye leave us in the shade but then again Wexford have more All Ireland's than us too. I said it over the past number of years Galway will come again...it's all about cycles. Also you suggestion that there is too much going on in Galway does not hold water.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11231 - 18/07/2016 12:35:52    1885430

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This thread has gone slightly off topic but as a Mayo fan I am hoping we get a chance to play Galway again down the line. No disrespect to any other counties and alot of things have to happen before then but wouldnt that be some occasion in Croker?

unclegerry (Mayo) - Posts: 1222 - 18/07/2016 12:38:05    1885433

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Replying To Gleebo:  "That would be very believable if your fans didn't nearly wet themselves with the excitement of beating Mayo for the first time in nearly a decade a few weeks back."
Ah chill guys. Ja there was no reason to bring Mayo into this thread. Most Galway football folk that I have come across over 4 decades supporting Galway football are quite realistic. Unlike when it comes to our hurlers we seems to be a bit more sedate with our footballers. My annoyance in recent times has been the complete dismissive nature of us by some analysts pre the Mayo match (Whelan and Dessie Dolan) in addition to the over egging of the criticism on the drawn Connacht final (McGuinness plus a few Ulster posters on this forum). Beaten Mayo for me has never been seen as an end of a journey. I was actually quite sedate after we beat them in the semi final but totally understand the exuberance of some of our fans afterwards. Sure if you saw the way John Maughan was lifted off the pitch after we lost to Mayo in the 1999 Connacht final or the way loads of Mayo fans were taking selfies with the scoreboard behind them after we were beaten out the gate in 2013 I certainly make no apologies for an over due win. I think we deserve a little more respect given where we are coming from and the sometimes difficult challenge our footballers face within the county compared to some of the one code counties who have resources to beat the band given Gaelic Football is number 1 with number 2 sport so far behind it will never be a threat.
On the thread itself look Cavan and the Rossies are in a better position than 5 yrs ago although from the Rossies perspective is that the trend of last season (early league form but leveling off come championship) is worrying.

kiloughter (Galway) - Posts: 1946 - 18/07/2016 12:40:43    1885438

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Replying To kiloughter:  "Ah chill guys. Ja there was no reason to bring Mayo into this thread. Most Galway football folk that I have come across over 4 decades supporting Galway football are quite realistic. Unlike when it comes to our hurlers we seems to be a bit more sedate with our footballers. My annoyance in recent times has been the complete dismissive nature of us by some analysts pre the Mayo match (Whelan and Dessie Dolan) in addition to the over egging of the criticism on the drawn Connacht final (McGuinness plus a few Ulster posters on this forum). Beaten Mayo for me has never been seen as an end of a journey. I was actually quite sedate after we beat them in the semi final but totally understand the exuberance of some of our fans afterwards. Sure if you saw the way John Maughan was lifted off the pitch after we lost to Mayo in the 1999 Connacht final or the way loads of Mayo fans were taking selfies with the scoreboard behind them after we were beaten out the gate in 2013 I certainly make no apologies for an over due win. I think we deserve a little more respect given where we are coming from and the sometimes difficult challenge our footballers face within the county compared to some of the one code counties who have resources to beat the band given Gaelic Football is number 1 with number 2 sport so far behind it will never be a threat.
On the thread itself look Cavan and the Rossies are in a better position than 5 yrs ago although from the Rossies perspective is that the trend of last season (early league form but leveling off come championship) is worrying."
I think we deserve a little more respect given where we are coming from and the sometimes difficult challenge our footballers face within the county compared to some of the one code counties who have resources to beat the band given Gaelic Football is number 1 with number 2 sport so far behind it will never be a threat.

You also have twice the population of the next biggest county in Connacht, so playing football and hurling to a decent level shouldn't be the burden that you're making it out to be, especially given that these sports are played in distinct parts of Co. Galway.

Gleebo (Mayo) - Posts: 2208 - 18/07/2016 13:00:17    1885459

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You need at least a couple of top class players to be a serious team.Roscommon simply dont have any top class elite players at the moment. Thats the reality plain and simple.Diarmaid murtagh is our most talented player and he didnt make the panel sunday despite being fit.

I fancied mayo at the start to be dublins biggest threat but its clear from what we have seen so far that they have reached the end of the road in terms of being serious contenders for sam.

Galway on the other hand are going to be serious contenders for sam in the years ahead. They have in comer,walsh and conroy three top drawer players. They have sorted out their defence and in kyne have a serious full back now. They have a good shrewd manager and unlike mayo they have a pedigree when it comes to winning all irelands. A good galway team is a dangerous animal and will not bottle it, If they get into two all ireland finals you can be sure they will win one. The last great team to come of connacht have two all irelands to their name and were unlucky not to win more.

salvador (Roscommon) - Posts: 439 - 18/07/2016 13:11:05    1885462

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The achievement of getting to Division 1 for small counties like Cavan and Roscommon shouldn't be dismissed.

Cavan got caught in a Tyrone hurricane and had to play 3 weeks in a row when in reality after that hgame they would have needed a good 3/4 weeks to try and recover physically and mentally

Roscommon as their management targeted the league as they felt it was crucical for young players coming through to experience Division 1 standard which has left them flat for the summer. Perhaps the will aim to peak later next year, its a tricky balance

KYTitletown (Kerry) - Posts: 816 - 18/07/2016 13:22:29    1885478

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