There are 24 teams in 1A, 1B, 2A and 2B. I think these divisions should be restructured to three divisions of 8 teams each with 2 up and down between the divisions.

The current league seems the best time to make the change for next year. Wexford, Offaly, Kerry and Laois finished up not too far apart from each other. Carlow, Westmeath, London and Antrim should join them in a second tier of 8 teams. This would see Clare and Limerick joining up with the six 1A teams in a top tier of 8 teams.

The two teams relegated from Division 1 will complain upon relegation but the only solution there is for them to avoid relegation! A league should be a league. Relegation to a lower tier and promotion from it is part and parcel of it.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7844 - 27/03/2016 20:30:34    1838269

There are 24 teams in 1A, 1B, 2A and 2B. I think these divisions should be restructured to three divisions of 8 teams each with 2 up and down between the divisions.
The current league seems the best time to make the change for next year. Wexford, Offaly, Kerry and Laois finished up not too far apart from each other. Carlow, Westmeath, London and Antrim should join them in a second tier of 8 teams. This would see Clare and Limerick joining up with the six 1A teams in a top tier of 8 teams.
The two teams relegated from Division 1 will complain upon relegation but the only solution there is for them to avoid relegation! A league should be a league. Relegation to a lower tier and promotion from it is part and parcel of it.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts:4596 - 27/03/2016 20:30:34No. Divisions of 8 work in gaelic but that doesn't mean they should be in place for hurling. divisions of 6 for top 12 is better rather than divisions of 8.

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 27/03/2016 21:50:42    1838310

Divisions of 8 are they way to go if home and away is out of the question for a 6 team division. Laois were awfull this year and shouldnt be in the same division as Limerick

bloodyban (Limerick) - Posts: 1710 - 28/03/2016 10:19:26    1838339

legendzxix (Kerry) 
I see your point but lets say it is 8 teams in each Division. Whoever gets relegated from Div 1 posters will still complain about having to play in Division 2. E.g This is just a scenario..Cork and Galway get relegated to Div 2 and Wexford Offaly get promoted to Div 1 then posters will be saying Cork and Galway are too good for Division 2 containing Laois Westmeath Carlow Antrim Kerry

crikey (Australia) - Posts: 355 - 28/03/2016 11:39:32    1838368

Just because you say one team doesn't deserve to be in the same division as another is hardly justification for a change. This type of seductiveness is not the way forward and will mean constantly tweaking it to suit certain teams. The system in place is a good as it has ever been. It also gives teams in 1b an opportunity to play teams in 1a. One thing is for sure the system will never please everyone.

ZUL10 (Clare) - Posts: 693 - 28/03/2016 15:23:14    1838458

No. Divisions of 8 work in gaelic but that doesn't mean they should be in place for hurling. divisions of 6 for top 12 is better rather than divisions of 8.

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts:11016 - 27/03/2016 21:50:42

When you put it like that Ormo I can't argue with it. I'm inclined to agree with legend on this one. Teams kick up a fus when they get relegated but if they deserve to be playing against the best they shouldn't be getting relegated. Division 1 in the hurling is a shambles. Technically speaking a side could remain in 1b yet win Division 1. It's ridiculous.

gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4971 - 28/03/2016 16:34:57    1838484

I am fully aware that Galway and Cork will be giving out mad upon a relegation to the division of 8 that I have outlined. At the same time that is the nature of a league. Teams should get on with it. Teams cannot be ring-fenced indefinitely. Kerry took some beatings in Division 1B. It has done them no harm. You have to learn from those and not hide. Carlow, Westmeath, Antrim and London fully deserve to be in the Division 2 of 8 that I have outlined.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7844 - 28/03/2016 16:59:08    1838493

I think due to the number of competitive teams it's almost impossible to get a formula for the league to suit everybody,I think a 8 team division 1 is worse than the current set up as the getting relegated from that division would be a complete disaster for team who is unfortunate enough to suffer that faith

If an 8 team division 1 was there next year it would be the current 1a teams plus Clare and limerick,imagine the crys of disapproval for 1 of those teams to be relegated,an 8 team top division was there from 2009-2011 and it wasn't exactly popular

bostonredsox (Wexford) - Posts: 4368 - 28/03/2016 18:36:41    1838535

When you put it like that Ormo I can't argue with it. I'm inclined to agree with legend on this one. Teams kick up a fus when they get relegated but if they deserve to be playing against the best they shouldn't be getting relegated. Division 1 in the hurling is a shambles. Technically speaking a side could remain in 1b yet win Division 1. It's ridiculous.
gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts:2778 - 28/03/2016 16:34:57Why cant you say Ormond?
Division 1 isn't a shambles and changing to 8 team groups isn't better. Teams kick up a fuss when relegated and that's wrong if changes are made but that doesn't mean we need to change to 8 team groups as that lessens the product. A team winning 1B then entering the playoffs is fine and rewards the teams in 1B. A team that wins 1B will have won nearly all or all of their group games and deserve a place in league playoffs ahead of a team that finishes 4th or so in 1A.

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 28/03/2016 20:12:26    1838570

The National Hurling league is a joke as its currently constituted. Its not even a proper league for gods sake. What league in World sport has 4 teams qualifying for the quarter finals from the 2nd division yet a team 6 positions ahead of them doesnt get in. Explain that to a sports fan outside the Insular environment of GAA and watch the reaction.
If Galway who have won a game and drawn a game get relegated and at the same time Laois manage to hold onto their status by beating Kerry or the winners of the league below them then the clamour for change will become irresistable.

bloodyban (Limerick) - Posts: 1710 - 29/03/2016 09:42:50    1838642

Hold on. The reason the League is currently set up this way was the 4 Divisions of 8 was not working!!!! Why?? Because very quickly the number of meaningless matches meant little competitive hurling.

The basis for the current League set-up was to make for more competitive matches not just matches. I opposite it at the beginning but have come around to it now. Why, because games mean something (bar one or two) right up to the last weekend. Teams have to keep hurling. There are far better contests.

The two arguments against the current set up are:

1. Teams in Division Two can win League One.

Doesn't worry mean in the slightest, it is better to have them getting one or two more competitive matches before the championship to benchmark where they are. Its about developing hurling. Because its different to Gaelic or other sports so what?? Get more hurling in.

2. The relegation Play Offs.

This was to avoid the yo-yo situation many teams were in. Again the idea was to give teams a competitive match (or 2) when the weather was getting better.

Overall the teams don't seem to be complaining.

The only thing I would do with the League is start end of March for the better weather.

witnof (Dublin) - Posts: 1604 - 29/03/2016 10:09:20    1838652

No id disagree with your assertion that things are going well. The opposite is infact true. Clare and Limerick are in a division where no team came within one score of beating them. All comprehensive enough victories.
Also Id take issue with the assertion that having division 2 teams take on division 1 teams in a quarter final is fair or positive. Limerick and Clare may run their opponents close or even win. The other 2 matchs shall be massacres. By that i mean there will be 10 points plus between Offaly and their opponents and Wexford and their opponents.
Insularity is not good in any sport. Lets make a good league and have more matchs. Do away with the knockout stuff and play home and away games. I ll make the 'ludicrous' suggestion that the team on the highest points wins the league and the team on the lowest gets relegated.

bloodyban (Limerick) - Posts: 1710 - 29/03/2016 12:27:50    1838746

Ormo how is the massacre that wexford and offaly are going to receive good for the game? Cork could be relegated to 1b, they could lose two games, finish fourth in 1b (making them the 10th best side in the country in the league) yet still go on and win division 1. It's ridiculous and is not a proper league.

gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4971 - 29/03/2016 13:04:46    1838772

2 up,2 down,anyone?

perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3929 - 29/03/2016 14:08:16    1838816

A 6 team top tier in hurling has added a cut throat dimension to the league that wasnt there before.
For once teams are having to take the league seriously, and I'm all for that.
We are constantly hearing that if teams want to stop Kilkenny from monopolizing the Liam Mccarthy, its up to them to reach the cats level.
Well the same applies here. if Limerick/Clare etc want to play in hurlings top tier, its up to them to reach that level.

joncarter (Galway) - Posts: 2692 - 29/03/2016 15:29:04    1838865

I'd be for 2 up/ 2 down - but the divisions would have to increase in size to say 10 or 12, but with a 6-match schedule (3 home, 3 away).
If 10 teams, for scheduling purposes only, divide teams into 3-4-3, with each 3 playing a 2-match round robin as well as against the 4 teams. This leaves all with 6 matches - top 4 from 10-team table to KO SFs.
If 12 teams, take current Divs 1A and 1B, but switch the weakest 2 (say Cork/Galway for Kerry/Laois) and have 6 in 1A v 6 in 1B. Again top 4 of 12 to KO SFs (with or without the condition that both group winners be included). Under the latter, the strongest teams would only meet in the KO, giving more mid range teams competition with them prior.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2590 - 29/03/2016 15:41:13    1838884

There were 3 divisions of 8 teams each with 2 promoted and 2 relegated all through the 80s and it worked perfectly well. Most of the top teams spent at least one year in division 2 during that era and relegation was never regarded as the end of the world then like it is now. Teams like Antrim and Westmeath steadily improved a little bit each year to the point where they eventually won promotion to division 1. This is a goal that a team like Kerry could aspire to in the long term if we had this system in place now.
The problem with the current system is that there are almost always 2 teams in division 2 who are a cut above the rest. Promotion is basically decided by the result of the match between these 2 teams while the other 4 realistically haven't got a hope of going up. The top 2 usually dish out some heavy beatings to the others and at the end of the day the team that finishes second gets little or no benefit from the league.
I get the point that the current system leads to a more competitive and cut-throat division 1. However this just benefits the elite teams while teams like Wexford, Offaly and perhaps now Kerry have little prospect of making further progress because it requires such a quantum leap to get to division 1.

Gaillimh_Abu (Galway) - Posts: 996 - 29/03/2016 17:40:47    1838971

The proof of the pudding is in the eating. The league's importance had declined in the old '8 team per division' system - it's way more competitive now. While I don't agree with the relegation playoff setup, Kerry were a mere puck-of-a-ball away from a National League quarter-final place.

keeper7 (Longford) - Posts: 4088 - 29/03/2016 18:28:12    1839001

If it did change to 8 teams per divisions, then every 2nd year 2 new teams would get to see if they could survive Division one.

As it finished this year Clare and Limerick would be 7th and 8th and relegated. Wexford and Offaly would be promoted.

In the second year, most would assume Clare and Limerick to cakewalk Div2, with Wexford and Offaly to come back down.

Does the 2 year cycle repeat itself? Every 2nd year trimmings in Division 2 and two teams struggling to make the grade in Division 1. If that is what the weaker counties want, then why not?

m_the_d (None) - Posts: 1099 - 29/03/2016 18:30:16    1839004

Waterford went up last year and they stayed up so your argument is like a rusty bucket. It doesnt hold any H2O

bloodyban (Limerick) - Posts: 1710 - 29/03/2016 19:24:47    1839027