There's a lot of talk at the minute of restructuring the championship because it's become boring, too many mismatches, only 1 provincial championship that's not draws any interest. I think the league is more of a problem than championship.

I saw this post from GreenandRed on another thread

Sure the best provincial championships we have is the one where the media in the other 3 provinces love to find fault with. Trying to highlight negative tactics and what they would describe as an over-physical approach. Bar the odd game in Leinster, Connacht and Munster a neutral would surely think that only in Ulster do good tough competitive games happen before August.
As for making the other provinces competitive the GAA aren't interested. They want to make the gap between the strong and so-called weaker counties even bigger by having a two tier championship. Restructuring a league, well past it's sell by date, to constructively give division 3 and 4 teams games against counties of a higher standard might be the way to go. Or let them come up with ways of improving the overall standard of football. They seem happy to take in the cash from games between Division 1 and 2 counties and let the rest stagnate.


I agree with this, I think the NFL at present is really harming weaker counties. They aren't getting regular opportunities to play better opposition. It is much harder for these teams to put together a county team where they can get their best players to commit to a full season. This is a big problem for Antrim, really who wants to be committing to a full season of county football and all the training it entails to be playing division 4 football travelling all over the country with most of the games in February and March. A good season then will mean 3 championship games. Antrim isn't a traditionally strong county but I feel there is untapped potential there and they could be much stronger. In the recent past we've been a division 2 team, beaten Galway in the championship,got to an Ulster final beating Donegal along the way and we narrowly lost to Kerry in the qualifier round 4. They went on to win it. I think current structures are really letting down the weakest counties and have led to a huge gap between counties between the have and have nots.

I don't think the league is doing much for second tier teams either, Meath are a good example of a traditionally strong county that has narrowly missed out on division 1 on a number of occasions and has gone from being a realistic challenger to Dublin but is now in a shadow of their former self.

I don't buy into this belief that there have always been weaker counties and nothing can be done to make teams more competitive.

I point to Monaghan. It's the 29th largest county by population, only 60k people and yet it has won 2 Ulster titles in the last 3 years and been a consistent participant in division 1. Much of their success is fuelled by having 1 star performer in McManus who is supported by enough good quality players to give him a platform to perform. It is pretty likely Monaghan will fade away in time, I worry that there isn't enough being done for the smaller counties so that once this top Monaghan team depart the top tier we don't have a new challenger emerging from a non traditional county. If they get a top class talent they don't have a team to support him as those players have been lost to other sports as the GAA isn't providing a good enough service to those outside the games elite.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4226 - 08/11/2015 15:00:01    1805313

Well written long piece, Whammo, or was it a vent ? :)

So for NFL solution - a) 2x16 (4 sections); b) 12-8-12 (6 sections); or c) 4x8 (4 sections).

a) For 2x16 - Swap half of current Div 1 for half of Div 2, to create two equal strength groups 1A and 1B.
Likewise, half of Divs 3 and 4 swap groups to form 2A and 2B.
All play 7 group games - 4 group winners go to Div 1 or 2 NFL Finals - 4 up/ 4 down ( top 2 in 2A swap with 1A, top 2 in 2B swap with 2A). For variety of pairings, 4th and 5th in 1A swap with 1B, and likewise in Div 2.

b) For 12-8-12 - Top 12 Div 1 with 2 equal groups of 6 - 5 group games - group winners to Div 1 Final.
Middle 8 Div 2 - with 2 equal groups of 4 - 5 group games, with 2 against other half of other group after initial 3 matches- group winners to Div 2 Final.
Bottom 12 Div 3 - with 6 in Div 3 North, 6 in 3 South - 5 group games - group winners in Div 3 Final.
Div 2 and 3 finalists promoted and replace bottom 2 from upper tier.

c) For 4x8 - Keep current 4x8, but merge Divs 3 & 4 for 3 North & 3 South.
Have 3 up/ 3 down between Divs 1 & 2, and 4 up/ 4 down between Divs 2 & 3, for better ebb and flo.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2592 - 08/11/2015 16:48:56    1805349

I agree that the nfl is widening the gap between top and bottom. But I don't thing having Carlow playing Dublin in the league will fix it.

I would propose a return to A and B divisions.

Div 1A and 1B open drawn every two years for top teams.

Then a regional div 2A and 2A with west/north and East/South one year switching to East/North and west/South (reducing travel costs for weaker teams with greater chances of local derbies to boost attendances). A 3up/3down promotion/ relegation set up gives everyone a good chance of promotion.

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1109 - 08/11/2015 16:49:55    1805350

Mainly this thread is just about a change being needed in the leagues.

They need regionalised to cu and we have to have more regular exposure to a better standard of opponent for or middle and lower level teams. I think this is more of an issue than changing the championship format.

Most of a team's matches are in the league, we need to offer something for players that makes it worth their while to play the game at county level.

I think tirawly's changes would be a big improvement on the current system.

I also think the league shouldn't start until March, should be played with few break weeks and should continue around provincial championships getting played in May/early June.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4226 - 08/11/2015 17:48:35    1805368

Just curious about diagonal boundaries, rater than North South ? - something special about Waterford visiting Leitrim ?

Also, would you have 4x8 - so Div 2 has 2nd v 2nd for 3rd promo place - or losing SFlists ? scabs growing on those itches....

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2592 - 08/11/2015 18:01:32    1805370

I actually think Div 3 and 4 teams should take the NFL more seriously and stop trying to gear up for the championship. Waterford, Leitrim etc will be also weak no matter then restructuring you do.

But maybe if they concentrate on the League and get a run there it will help latter in the year, or they move up in the League and get to play better teams.

One of the reasons for Dublin success is they have a plan around how to use the O'Bryne Cup and League as part of building and blooding for later in the year.

Some counties I think approach the year like headless chickens

witnof (Dublin) - Posts: 1604 - 09/11/2015 09:33:05    1805480

Divisions 3 and 4 teams will rarely get out of there as they're playing a poor standard of football against teams playing a poor standard of football. Get rid of the current provincial leagues and start the league in January until March. Try 4 divisions with 2 from each of the current 4 divisions. Sure there would be some hidings for the old division 3 and 4 teams but they will improve their standards and bit by bit get some wins over Division 2 and eventually Division 1 teams as their football and confidence improves. The leagues serves little purpose as it is. Some counties are happier to avoid the last 4 in Division 1. If Dublin aren't in the final you'll be lucky to get 30,000 for the Division 2 and Division 1 finals. Rather than make the strong counties stronger and keep the weak counties weaker they should try to improve the overall standard of football. Start open draw provincial championships in mid April and an open draw All Ireland championship in July. No back doors, no second chances and no talking down to so-called weaker counties. If some of those counties don't want to improve it's up to them. But telling them they'll only be good enough for an Intermediate championship is giving them no chance.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7345 - 09/11/2015 10:00:15    1805498

IF you want an all inclusive league with no relegation/promotion then we need to get radical on how the county system is set up.

The sporting competitions without promotion/relegation (super rugby, PRo12, NFL, NBA, AFL etc) have an inbuilt mechanism to balance the system so no one team has the kind of domination enjoyed by Kerry and Dublin in football.

To try an improve football standards in div 4 counties you need to do one of the following:

Exclude them from main competition but allow merged teams to enter
All counties apply for funding for their county teams (all grade) from central office and all counties to be given same budget.
Allow counties import up to 3 players from outside the county.

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1109 - 10/11/2015 13:42:51    1805941

I have peddled that player import before - but to make a difference, I suggested 9+6 for the starting 15.
Also, counties should be incentivised to ezrn their own financial resources, although a 'base stipend' should be allocated to each team, as you indicated,
or as UEFA calls them CL 'solidarity payments'.
Regional or amalgamated teams could get messy, unless the changes are permaneng for lengthy periods.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2592 - 11/11/2015 20:25:20    1806562