What do posters think of the standard of underage coaching in their counties?

I know our local team has had the same coach from U12, U13, U14, U15, U16 and now minor. Most of the lads have had him for 2 years at each level and he's moved up with them at every age group. The answer to every loss seems to be to do more running, sprinting and now S&C. A good bunch of lads have underachieved and won nothing but still the coach goes onwards and upwards. Match reports suggest the 'lads' didn't play to their capabilities when maybe the truth lay a bit closer to home.

Even if the coach were achieving then wouldn't it make sense to mix it up so that young lads see different approaches to training, learn different things from different coaches?

opa01 (Cavan) - Posts: 502 - 04/11/2015 19:11:42    1804491

opa01, can I ask first of all if you yourself have volunteered to help and perhaps bring in a new approach or is this coach left on his own to do it all?? I coach in gaelic football, hurling and soccer and there are plenty of 'sideline experts ' out there who like to pass judgement but wouldn't bother their a**e helping out.

frankbhoy77 (Antrim) - Posts: 1300 - 04/11/2015 19:47:03    1804501

Yep - do so every week for younger ages but concentrate on skills rather than creating cross-country runners.

opa01 (Cavan) - Posts: 502 - 04/11/2015 20:24:21    1804513

Standard of coaching can vary even within a club , most teams at say 8 years of age will start out with a variety of Dads and a mix of knowledege some with previous playing experience others with wildeyed enthusiasiim , equally the ambition will differ the one whos living out his own fantasy career , and the one in it for the kids benefit . Unfortunatley and Ive seen it happen as kids get older if you dont have more than the basics and are unaware of your own limitations coaches will run repeat training drills , will be unaware of how to spot skill gaps , cant move a team onto another level hence all that happens is the abilities stay static and the player just gets older . Same coaches never learn how to empower players to play, as due to a lack of confidence in themselves they try to control it all from the sideline ( the screamer ) .
The best coaches Ive met delagate and accept they dont know it all , they bring in guest coaches , bring in senior club players regularly , they bring variety to training , they encourage feedback from players , they put the player first and foremost in everything they do and accept that their own ego is the least important commodity of all , if they do this a few things will happen they will give players the chance to be the best player that they can be , talent will not be wasted , and they will win respect of kids .
I am with a club were Ive seen both sides, the ego gorrilla with the hands on approach who never sees help only threats to his position and parents are the enemy , Ive also seen a coach who funnily enough I dont get on personnaly with ,but hes brilliant with players would walk on fire for them and players including my own son are better young men for having spent time with him .
Just cause someone volunters is not allways a good enough reason to give them free control of a team ,first question Id ask a prospective coach of kids is whats in it for you , how he answers and acts will tell you what you need to know .

Damothedub (Dublin) - Posts: 5193 - 04/11/2015 21:16:44    1804525

Excellent post Damo.

opa01 (Cavan) - Posts: 502 - 04/11/2015 21:49:15    1804538

Ive been in this situation as an underage coach opa01 and done some of the coaching courses and child protection course etc. and you can be sure that no matter what your approach is, some of the parents of the kids you are coaching right now wont think you are doing it right either and you Opa have the advantage over this other guy in that you have started with the young kids where the pressure is less and results less important, whereas he has a string of bad seasons to be beaten with a stick over. In my opinion theres no hard and fast rules with it and ive seen coaches with likeable personalities get a lot out of young lads just as much as tactical master plans.
I dunno what this coach is like admittedly ...Its unusual that a team that is doing badly is left with the same coach whereas teams that did well in our club were left with the same men up the ranks as the atitude was "if it aint broke dont fix it" Also normally in a smaller club anyway the coach is the parent of a player in the team cause thats the reason he got interested in the first place and it makes sense that he will be travelling to that teams games anyway so hes left to it or else the club could lose a coach/volunteer and they arent falling out of the trees.

Jack_Sparrow (Westmeath) - Posts: 1016 - 04/11/2015 21:51:50    1804540

Very good post Damo. Id agree with everything.

AthCliath (Dublin) - Posts: 4347 - 05/11/2015 08:16:00    1804543

Coaches left in place for that lenght of time no matter what the teams results are like, do little for individual players, it is also a very sterile environment and can't be good for anyone. Change should be part and parcel of juvenile sport, not just change for the sake of it, planned changed. Parents have a huge role to play, you may as a coach have them for 2/3 hours a week but a dedicated interested parent is invaluable. An interested parent will take their children out to the park/pitch/wall and actively help bring on players skill-levels and teach them the benefits of practice and cement their interest in the sport.
Modern coaching methods involve a team management approach and a bit of oversight doesn't go amiss and keeps problems to a minimum. Coaching is a lot more than just people with big ego's and some vested selfish interest - they have no place at all in coaching juveniles, you know the type "my boys" or "my girls" - steer well clear. Players need one-on-one mentoring for their skills, they need team coaching, fitness and the whole exercise has to be managed. It isn't easy all these people are volunteers but at the end of the day it has to be about the players. Having someone in charge for that lenght of time is not good for anyone.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4896 - 05/11/2015 08:20:59    1804544

good thread this - i do 6s in hurling and 8s in rugby,- but a coach even if he is not good should never be lambasted after all he is putting in time and his/her best effort -- especially by parents who sit on sideline or worse (and i bett all coaches have had this) drop their kids and go - lie we are some sort of babysitting service or who dont play sport with them at home

Like Damo says i try and get better coaches/current players involved in coaching and when that happens i take a backward step (if it works for clive woodward its fine by me)

At my level my main aims are 1 teach them skills and 2 -give them a love and enjoyment of the game --for me its a result if they come back the following week bacause that means they are enjoying it

janesboro (Limerick) - Posts: 1502 - 05/11/2015 10:10:16    1804566

Best bit of advice I got from an old head years ago when starting coaching was this , he told me " you have real power , not the power to turn a kid into an all ireland winner , but the power to turn a kid off team sport for life " chilling but true , as the years went by I got to understand exactly what he meant .
Most top clubs have a handle on this they will have a coaching committee , and have a club programme that coaches will follow , they oversee the type of coaching been done , hence you rarely see top clubs doing laps of the park its more dynamic sprinting etc they also have a way of dealing with the overzealous parent which is never easy .
Im not on here to slag off parents or any volunter , but I have found parents need to be coached early on on in good dos and donts I will give an example one team I know of the coach can not give a half time talk on his own he gets buckets of sideline advice as thats the ways its allways been since they were 8 , theres voices everywhere during play before the match parents walk in and out of dressing room as they like this team are under 15 now ,
A philosophy that one club practices which I think is a good learning curve is along these lines
Age 8-11 play for fun
Age 11-13 learn how to compete
Age 14 -16. Play to win
If you are a coach with half decent skill you can adapt approach and each year bring a team on gradually and have a chance of good player retention .

Damothedub (Dublin) - Posts: 5193 - 05/11/2015 11:26:10    1804592

I see it a lot in football these days more so than in hurling. In hurling, the primary emphasis is invariably on skills but often football coaches seem to want athletes first. A lot of that is coming from the type of football they see the likes of Tyrone & Donegal playing. True, you need to be extremely fit to play that style but it usually doesn't transcend very well down to the lower grades of club football. I imagine it's easier to run the crap out of young lads rather than actually focus on improving their skills.

keeper7 (Longford) - Posts: 4088 - 05/11/2015 13:02:18    1804632

Some very good posts here. I believe it's the club who are at fault here - just being lazy and looking at it as one less post to fill. I like the idea of the coaching committee where they would look at what went well & badly each year and learn from it. Coaches could help each other out with ideas etc. In our case the parents are reluctant to say anything lest their child be left sidelined. One lad who "rebelled" at U16 was dropped and quit while continuing to play minor (for another coach).

opa01 (Cavan) - Posts: 502 - 06/11/2015 10:47:00    1804890