After the defeat to Kerry a lot of people think that Tyrone are tipped to win Ulster...Personally I think that Tyrone don't need to win Ulster to prove that we can still be dangerous.
03 Armagh knocked out by Monaghan to reach the AI Final
05 Beat by Armagh in the Ulster final at HQ in a replay to beat them in the Semis and win our 2nd All-Ireland
08 We were knocked out by down after a replay and the rest was history
13 we were beat by Donegal in Ballybofey to then beat Ulster Champions Monaghan in the QF and lose to Mayo
15 was a repeat of 13 only to get beat by Kerry instead.

Kerry 06 and 09 didnt win Munster but still managed to win the All-Ireland!

Provincials have lost all meaning in the championship, yes its great getting wins over your local rivals but come to the QF when its back door vs Provincial winners its all to play for. For Tyrone it seems that losing in Ulster is the best way for us to go as we play more games, build momentum and and playing competitive consistently where the provincial route is very stop-start due to other provenances and the back door playing catch-up.

Mayo and Dublin have walked through their Provence now for a couple of years without being touched, Kerry have always had Cork to battle with

Find_the_space (Tyrone) - Posts: 313 - 25/08/2015 15:52:33    1776025

Feel free to sit it out.......I wont complain ;)

DoireCityFC (Derry) - Posts: 1580 - 25/08/2015 16:11:03    1776042

Derry still wouldn't win it

Find_the_space (Tyrone) - Posts: 313 - 25/08/2015 16:16:19    1776047

Very rare for a D2 team like either of us to do well

DoireCityFC (Derry) - Posts: 1580 - 25/08/2015 16:27:17    1776056

And yeah neither of us will win it next year......sure its fermanaghs turn i hear

DoireCityFC (Derry) - Posts: 1580 - 25/08/2015 16:27:59    1776058

Find_the_space
County: Tyrone
Posts: 194

1776025

After the defeat to Kerry a lot of people think that Tyrone are tipped to win Ulster...Personally I think that Tyrone don't need to win Ulster to prove that we can still be dangerous.
03 Armagh knocked out by Monaghan to reach the AI Final
05 Beat by Armagh in the Ulster final at HQ in a replay to beat them in the Semis and win our 2nd All-Ireland
08 We were knocked out by down after a replay and the rest was history
13 we were beat by Donegal in Ballybofey to then beat Ulster Champions Monaghan in the QF and lose to Mayo
15 was a repeat of 13 only to get beat by Kerry instead.

Kerry 06 and 09 didnt win Munster but still managed to win the All-Ireland!

Provincials have lost all meaning in the championship, yes its great getting wins over your local rivals but come to the QF when its back door vs Provincial winners its all to play for. For Tyrone it seems that losing in Ulster is the best way for us to go as we play more games, build momentum and and playing competitive consistently where the provincial route is very stop-start due to other provenances and the back door playing catch-up.

Mayo and Dublin have walked through their Provence now for a couple of years without being touched, Kerry have always had Cork to battle with

Agree.You train all year and it all comes down to one game. The top teams dismiss the league and effectively put all their eggs in one basket. If Mayo/Kerry fail to win an All-ireland it will be a disaster. They have effectively trained all year, played mostly meaningless games not gong at full tilt or putting put second string sides to end up with nothing. Dublin, though it will wrongly be of no consolation, will have at least won the national league.

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 25/08/2015 16:34:14    1776064

I've mentioned it before, but in 2010 over the August bank holiday weekend, all 4 provincial champions got knocked out. Naturally enough this cause a frenzy of people going "thats it, this is the end of provincial championships, no team with all Ireland ambitions will ever win a province again".

In the 5 years since, Monaghan are the only provincial champion to have lost to a qualifier. Of the 22 matches between qualifiers and provincial winners, 20 have been won by provincial winners.

Compare that to 2006-2010 when there were 4 back door AI winners, and 7 of the 10 finalists were qualifier teams. If anything, recent years have seemed to indicate a major advantage in winning your province. Unless you're from Monaghan that is.

CastleBravo (Meath) - Posts: 1644 - 25/08/2015 17:01:07    1776102

I don't agree that the provincials have lost all meaning in the championship. Going through the front door is the way to go if you can manage it as you know when your games will be with regular breaks between and in recent years it means you will most likely avoid a Dublin, Mayo, Kerry etc in the quarter finals. In Donegal's case it suited us much better through the front door in recent years as you have the momentum that comes with winning a trophy and being unbeaten. The only real exception to this in the last five years or so has been Monaghan. I really can't understand how they were so flat this year in the Tyrone game - they really gave Tyrone way too much respect and to me they were beaten that day before a ball was kicked.

In relation to Tyrone I do admit I admire the way they can get a run going through the back door but it is a route that is dangerous and teams are relying a bit on the draw to go in their favour. Also lets be honest the most realistic chance of silverware for both Donegal and Tyrone this year was to win an Ulster title - so I don't agree with the analysis that the team that lost were better off. Sure Tyrone are also out now and although they did get further than Donegal they still have no silverware to show for it.

supporter (Donegal) - Posts: 205 - 25/08/2015 17:29:39    1776125

As it stands there is no advantage in winning Ulster as the winner has usually had to peak too early. There is an advantage in winning the other provinces but the winner is pretty much known in advance. Dublin. Mayo. And either Kerry or less likely Cork.

So the current provincial setup to the championship needs to change or else less and less people are going to be interested.

tyroneed (Tyrone) - Posts: 753 - 25/08/2015 17:32:02    1776126

It is giving us the opportunity to fine tune in preparation for the push for the big prize. Nothing much of a challenge though.

farneyforsam (Monaghan) - Posts: 35 - 25/08/2015 18:26:27    1776156

The Ulster Championship needs to be weighted, and the easiest option is to give Top 4 Ulster sides in the National League a Ulster Championship QF place each. Then draw for the remaining places.

The current open draw system can at times be beneficial, but can just as often be detrimental to an Ulster side in the All Ireland series.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 25/08/2015 21:47:23    1776284

If Donegal had beaten Monaghan, there's a high chance we'd be in our 3rd All Ireland final in 4 years.

Seeing Kerry v Tyrone, a fully fit Donegal would have been more than capable of beating both in a dirty day in the rain

The problem with Ulster is if you lose in the final. The high intensity needed to compete coupled with the quick turnaround makes it the hardest province to emerge from. Even winning it does take so much out of teams.
Cork finally found out this year after a tough Provincial final defeat how hard it is to lift it again after short turnaround

Remember too how lacklustre Donegal were against Armagh at the QF stage last year before blowing Dublin away next time out.

shaggykev (Donegal) - Posts: 189 - 26/08/2015 09:40:07    1776324

shaggykev
County: Donegal
Posts: 131

1776324 If Donegal had beaten Monaghan, there's a high chance we'd be in our 3rd All Ireland final in 4 years.

Seeing Kerry v Tyrone, a fully fit Donegal would have been more than capable of beating both in a dirty day in the rain

I doubt that somehow since Monaghan are a better team than Donegal and they didn't fair to well against us, no point talking about what could have been, Donegal are not the team they were and need major surgery.

cacsmckilly (Tyrone) - Posts: 1294 - 26/08/2015 09:55:11    1776337

Tyrone definitely benefited from playing a bit of ball outside Ulster this year and they were in great shape when they got to Croker. Was very impressed by them against Kerry a game they might have won. As for ourselves in hindsight it looks like we were focused on beating Donegal in the Ulster Final and little else. Great record in Ulster over last few years outside Ulster not so good.

seanie08 (Monaghan) - Posts: 1799 - 26/08/2015 10:17:16    1776343

To avoid Kerry Dublin and Mayo in the quarter finals

Eddie the Exile (Monaghan) - Posts: 1058 - 26/08/2015 10:22:53    1776346

I doubt that somehow since Monaghan are a better team than Donegal and they didn't fair to well against us, no point talking about what could have been, Donegal are not the team they were and need major surgery.

Fair enough but don't think Tyrone faired any better against Donegal did you? It's convenient for all the Tyrone lads to belittle the value of winning the Ulster championship seeing as they haven't been able to win it over the last few years.

supporter (Donegal) - Posts: 205 - 26/08/2015 10:38:05    1776362

GaryMc82
County: Derry
Posts: 2089

The Ulster Championship needs to be weighted, and the easiest option is to give Top 4 Ulster sides in the National League a Ulster Championship QF place each. Then draw for the remaining places.

It's already weighted. In the past 12 years, Monaghan has not played in a preliminary round once while everyone else has played at least twice - Cavan has played 5 times, think Donegal & Down 4. Do you think Monaghan would have reached Ulster finals as often had they had to negotiate a more difficult route?

opa01 (Cavan) - Posts: 503 - 26/08/2015 10:54:32    1776375

It's still the quickest way to getting to the quarter finals knowing you are in fairly good shape. You could pull anyone in the qualifiers and be gone by start of June or you could be lucky and get a string of lower division teams. It was a good run for Tyrone this year but they had it handy enough, actually didn't face anyone of note until Monaghan. While they won that they lost their next tough game. So 1 out of 2 for them this year. Every year someone comes out of the qualifiers and does well or gets a good run, Armagh last year, but then they usually fall away the following year. The challenge is to win something, provincial for a starter. A good qualifier run is a way of building confidence but nothing else. Trophies are what is required. As someone above said, the problem for Ulster is losing the final, you're basically hosed if you lose the final and that needs to be addressed.

rcarragh (Dublin) - Posts: 305 - 26/08/2015 10:56:20    1776376

supporter
County: Donegal
Posts: 177

1776362 I doubt that somehow since Monaghan are a better team than Donegal and they didn't fair to well against us, no point talking about what could have been, Donegal are not the team they were and need major surgery.

Fair enough but don't think Tyrone faired any better against Donegal did you? It's convenient for all the Tyrone lads to belittle the value of winning the Ulster championship seeing as they haven't been able to win it over the last few years.

At the end of the day Tyrone went furthest in the All Championship series, that's the crust of it. Since we beat the best team in Ulster although didn't win ulster I would rate Monaghan and Tyrone as the two best teams, Donegal had maybe two good performances all year, the first was against us where they got the rub of the green in their home town and the second I suppose was against Armagh. They been quite poor every other game.

cacsmckilly (Tyrone) - Posts: 1294 - 26/08/2015 13:45:18    1776539

Winning Ulster was a brilliant day both days but specially 2013.........that feeling cant be matched only by winning Sam,which my team dont look like been able to at the moment although with a rethink and some dangerous forwards been brought in from our minor team from 2 years ago we could make another go of it soon.

Tyrone and other Ulster teams can say what the like,what did Tyrone win? the McKenna Cup and got relegated to Division 2.

Monaghan are Ulster Champions and a comfortable Division 1 team,who did not perform in any department of the field in the All Ireland Quarter Final.

With a change of tactics and a infulx of youth we will return stronger in the next 2-3 years.

hardcore (Monaghan) - Posts: 1366 - 26/08/2015 14:11:42    1776561