Saw this article on the main page, thought it was interesting, I think Richie raises alot of valid points
http://hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=242435

Its an interesting point he raises, Kilkenny played 3 games to get to the Leinster final last year, but got to an AI final on 3 games this year, shows how arbitrary the current format is. Its also very insightful to hear that he would prefer 6/7 championship games a year, and sees the benefit in a league based championship.

It would be interesting to hear more top players views on this, especially about how many games they'd be comfortable playing in the championship. I think its really great that the hurler of the year, and a Kilkenny hurler (who are usually pretty reserved about such matters), has raised this issue, and expressed these preferences.

What do people think? Could Richie's sentiments be indicative of how alot of inter-county hurlers feel about the championship structure? Could we be moving closer to a non provincial based championship?

Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 11/08/2015 17:55:29    1768289

To play 6 or 7 championship games a year you'd have to introduce a league format at some stage of the competition as there aren't enough counties available to field competitively at the top level. To do that you'd then have to abolish the provincial system. Neither the Leinster nor Munster councils are going to agree to that as it'd instantly reduce their powers and sources of revenue which they guard jealously.Personally, I've always felt the provincial system is outdated and unfair for a variety of reasons.
Purely conjecture on my part but to answer your question I'd say most inter-county players would vote for more games.

Maroonatic (Galway) - Posts: 1060 - 11/08/2015 19:23:07    1768330

Thanks be to Jaysus a big player has brought this up. If I was in charge of the GAA, I would have a two groups of seven, winners into the semis,second and third play the quarters, with the provincial championships run as separate competitions. I want to watch the Galway hurlers at worst every fortnight. Why are we keeping a system that was good in 1901, but has long long outlived it usefulness.

galwaydublin (Galway) - Posts: 226 - 11/08/2015 20:12:11    1768364

Fair play to Ritchie Hogan for telling it like it is.The provincial system is outdated unbalanced and unfair and to my mind bad for the development of hurling in the 'weaker counties'.
Its high time there was change.

Barnowl94 (Galway) - Posts: 3150 - 11/08/2015 20:14:30    1768366

Refreshing interview from R Hogan.The championship is in need of major surgery.Three games and KK in another final.Richie wants more games.Im sure most the players want more games.The fans want more games.Lets have more bloody games!

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 11/08/2015 21:08:04    1768403

Heard the interview. Was surprised he was so forthright in his views (was expecting the usual "ah shur we're happy to play any format" response) but he's a confident fella.

Of course every player, county or club, wants to play regular matches. Waiting 4 or 5 weeks for a match, with nothing but training sessions and maybe the odd challenge match in between, would drive anyone spare.

Unfortunately we've got a stumbling block the size of Godzilla in the form of the provincial championships.

ballydalane (Kilkenny) - Posts: 1246 - 11/08/2015 21:17:41    1768413

Supposedly a format was mooted with a 5 team group in Munster, a 5 team group in Leinster and some form of qualifier group. It didn't get the support required and was shelved.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7846 - 11/08/2015 21:45:23    1768428

Right,

I had a good long think about it and here is a proposed system for a new hurling format. Would like to hear what people posting here think of this.

Thanks

Proposed re-formatting of All-Ireland Hurling Championship

Munster Championship
• All 6 teams in Munster play off in a round robin format
• Tie-breakers to be put in place to avoid play offs or objections
• Top 2 teams Qualify for the Munster Final
• Munster Final be moved to August & be in effect the All-Ireland Semi-final - Winners go into All-Ireland final
• Bottom team plays off v worst ranked Leinster side to see who plays in Ring Cup

Leinster Championship
• 8 Teams in Leinster championship to be divided into two groups
• Last year's Leinster finalists be seeded in each group
• All 4 teams in each group play off in a round robin format
• Tie-breakers to be put in place to avoid play offs or objections
• Winners in each group meet the second places side in the other group
• Winners of Leinster semi-finals to meet in Leinster Final
• Bottom team in each group play off to see who plays lowest ranked team in Munster for Ring relegation play off
• Leinster Final be moved to August & be in effect the All-Ireland Semi-final - Winners go into All-Ireland final

Benefits
• Teams who qualify for the All-Ireland final would play a minimum of 5 games
• Lowest number of games would be 3 - the sides who finish third in both Leinster groups
• Munster & Leinster Finals are retained and are of significant value as losers are out of the championship, winners go to All-Ireland final
• The GAA should be able to retain gate numbers for provincial championship games
• System to be open to review after 2 years

Things people might object to/problems
• Complaints that a Munster team is guaranteed an All-Ireland final spot. Only 3 of the last 20 All-Ireland finals have not seen a Munster team make it to the final & 2 finals were all Munster affairs. Also, American Football's super bowl sees the winners of its 2 major championships meet in the showpiece final.
• Possible 'dead rubber' in last round robin game if already qualified Munster Finalists are due to meet
• If a Munster side was relegated to the Christy Ring Cup, it would need the group system to be re-adjusted
• Possible lob sided games in Leinster/Munster championships but Italy entered 6 nations a number of years ago & by competing they managed to gain victories over France & Scotland.

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6480 - 12/08/2015 09:25:16    1768472

An honest opinion from Hogan. Pity that some in the media and elsewhere couldn't respond with a similar honesty. Rather than have an open and frank discussion about the structure they used the opportunity to attack the Leinster championship. TheI Indo has a short article, no name of author, in which they wonder why Leinster, with seven teams, allow one team a bye into the semi finals and ask why not do the same as Munster!!! Obviously in the rush to have a go they forgot their sums and facts. Munster have five teams with three getting byes into the semis.

Tipperary played two games to win Munster. Kilkenny played two to win Leinster. Should Tipp reach the Final they will have played the exact same number of games as Kilkenny. Galway will have played more because they came through the back door.

Refreshing to see that the honest discussion has kicked off here. A major obstacle to more games will be the knock on effect on the clubs. I feel that's where it starts and finishes really.

westisthebest (Galway) - Posts: 444 - 12/08/2015 10:09:25    1768510

Definitely want to see more games. But the Munster championship stays. Play it off earlier or later if needs be or even parallel to the all Ireland. There's ways to keep it. 1995 no one in clare gave a damn about the All Ireland. It was all about winning Munster

BanTarleton (Clare) - Posts: 181 - 12/08/2015 10:25:36    1768547

Wow, Kevin Fennelly has also come out strongly against the current format:
http://hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=242491

To have such prominent figures from Kilkenny come out so forcefully on the issue really says alot. I agree with everything Kevin says here, the provincial format just doesn't work for hurling's geographical layout. And if Kerry end up playing in Leinster rather than Munster, it will really show the format up as a bit of a joke. It's trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.

Kevins suggestion of a championship of 4 groups of 4 (seeded), with top 2 going into quarter-finals, is something most of us on this forum have suggested at some point, and makes the most sense.
Again, I've been really surprised that 2 guys of their standing have come out so strongly against the current format, but its a pleasant surprise. I really hope other players and high ranking hurling figures use this opportunity to voice their opinions as well.

Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 12/08/2015 17:18:33    1768998

I'm sorry but I have a real problem with Kevin Fennellys attitude towards it.
Marlon I don't agree at all with most people's opinion on this forum on this issue. You are all once again forgetting the club hurlers. There's club hurlers in some counties going months in the summer without matches. It's great for the rest of ye supporters to have matches but what do the rest of us do for the summer when we haven't a clue when our next matches are. Personally I'd prefer to reduce league matches at least but not going to happen. As an organisation the GAA need to sort out the mess that is the club fixtures before concentrating on the small minority of players that are intercounty

tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 12/08/2015 18:19:01    1769043

tiobraid
County: Tipperary

How would a 'world cup' style format make the club situation any worse? If anything, it could improve the situation, because much of the championship would be league based, so we'd know well in advance when teams are going to be playing, so a realistic club/county schedule could be drawn up. With the current system, you can't schedule anything after the first round of the championship, because you don't know when/where/if you're inter county team will be playing next. With a league based system, you would. As this would eliminate the back door, you wouldn't really have more games overall, you'd just have the games spread more equally between counties.

Under Fennellys suggested system, it would take 5 games to get to the All Ireland final. It took Tipp the same number of games to get to the final in 2010. The championship would actually be streamlined, to the extent to where breaks for club competitions would be possible.

Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 12/08/2015 19:22:47    1769076

There's absolutely no way Kerry could enter the Munster Championship in group format. The qualifier group is a fair and realistic reflection our level.

You could have 2 provincial groups of 5. Provincial finals competed by the top 2. Maintain qualifier group of 4. Top 2 of qualifier group play-off against 3rd placed provincial teams for a place in the quarter-finals against provincial runners-up.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7846 - 12/08/2015 22:01:44    1769202

Cheers legendzxix

Yeah - it's good to get feedback. The thing is though if teams like Kerry deem themselves not fit to play league format against the bigger sides, is another tier needed in hurling? It's a difficult one as we probably have 6 counties in the McCarthy Cup saying they have zero chance of winning it and fearing peltings from the bigger sides, when the bigger sides are hammering each other anyway.

2012 Kilkenny 4-24 Tipperary 1-15
2014 Limerick 4-26 Wexford 1-9
2015 Tipperary 4-23 Limerick 1-16

Counties like Clare, Limerick, Tipp, Kilkenny, Cork, Dublin etc have all taken big hammerings in recent years but seem to have the belief or tradition to get themselves back up for it straight away.

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6480 - 13/08/2015 09:28:33    1769228

Hogan's feet would have been a lot sorer if Kilkenny had lost.

Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2466 - 13/08/2015 10:05:52    1769258

Richie is more than welcome to declare for one of the round robin teams that way he will get more games...just joking

crikey (Australia) - Posts: 355 - 13/08/2015 10:14:12    1769262

Possibly within the current structure, they should bring back a full compliment of quarter-finals. Draw provincial champions at home against the 2 lowest qualifiers based on league placing. Draw provincial runners-up against the 2 higher qualifiers based on league placing with a separate draw to determine home team.

Example from this year:
Kilkenny v Clare
Tipperary v Limerick
Waterford v Dublin
Galway v Cork

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7846 - 13/08/2015 10:36:29    1769278