Football: There is a huge gap as you already know, between the top 4 and the rest of the counties but is making a tiered competition really going to help? I think it will only widen the gap even more like in Hurling... Sean Quigley tweeted to the Sunday Game that he didnt want to play in a 2nd tier championship and I'm sure many other players feel the same.Best option: Imo something like the World Cup (8 groups of 4 teams with the top 2 qualifying for the round of 16... leave a gap in one group where KK should be for the winners of an International round inc. London, NY etc.) I'm open to any other options but thats the best I can come up with...

Hurling: There is an even bigger gap in hurling than in football and the interest in weaker counties is very poor. Also, some teams in the Liam McCarthy Cup only have to win 4/5 games to reach an AI final because of lack of opponents... Best option Scrap the provincial championships, I think Jim McGuinness' proposal for football (top 16 in League in the A championship, bottom 16 in the B championship) is the best option for hurling because it gives the weaker counties a far better chance at competing in a higher level... What do ye think?

mayo_hurler (Mayo) - Posts: 113 - 03/08/2015 14:37:19    1763103

But you always have only a few teams who are capable of winning All-Irelands.No system can be perfect..

ziggy32001 (Meath) - Posts: 8354 - 03/08/2015 14:40:56    1763106

Over analysis and social media are to blame for this problem "invention" There always was and always will be 5 counties or less that can win the Sam or Liam in any given year. This might not be a good year but that happens. If Mayo win Sam then all would be perceived as being in order.

maroondiesel (Mayo) - Posts: 1196 - 03/08/2015 14:46:51    1763112

maroondiesel

Yep all true..

Seems like the media are overblowing it these days..

Sure Kerry and Dublin were miles ahead of anyone in the 70's,perhaps they should have had them two play one match(and play no other) for the All-Ireland in that decade..

Most teams would still like to play the best even if they get hammered. Are we saying that Fermanagh for example are no entitled to share the same pitch as Dublin,Kerry etc??

ziggy32001 (Meath) - Posts: 8354 - 03/08/2015 14:50:28    1763114

They should split up the Dublin region team into 4 or 5 teams, Fingal, South County Dublin, Dun Laoighre etc etc. In fact there is no official 'County Dublin' anymore. Its a historical entity.

Here is a quote about this, taken from wikipedia but seems fairly true. The area lost its administrative county status in 1994, with Section 9 Part 1(a) of the Local Government (Dublin) Act, 1993 stating that "the county shall cease to exist."

supermon (Monaghan) - Posts: 1073 - 03/08/2015 14:56:00    1763120

Whatever about the football, I think hurling would be better off with a slight restructure in the league and championship, but for the most part the three tier system works.

What I'd like to see in hurling League is the current 6 team format of the League stay, but with a few changes.
- All teams get home and away, 10 games each, 5 home and 5 away. Scrap the pre-season tournaments to make space for the extra games, they're pointless anyway. 1A and 1B should be closer linked as well with two up and two down.

- 1A top three teams into League SF's.
Bottom team of 1A relegated to 1B.
Second and third from bottom in 1A go into relegation playoff.

- Top of 1B automatically promoted, and into League SF's.
Second and third top go into promotion playoff for 1A.
Bottom and second bottom in 1B go into relegation playoff, with loser relegated to division 2.

Division 2A and 2B would be run on the same lines, with the winners of the Division 2 promoted to 1B.

I think the increased number of relegation/promotion spots would keep the competitiveness, the extra games could help squads develop and fans get more games. Also with the two up/two down situation, I think more sides would overall get a taste of top quality exposure in 1A, which would be a good thing.

As for the championship, with the provincial structures not going anywhere, I would have a subtle change to the structure.
The four team qualifier group would remain. The top two go through to the provincial championships, so you'd have seven sides in Leinster and 5 in Munster, or if Kerry end up out of the qualifiers 6 in each province.

Either way, there will be four provincial QF's across Munster and Leinster. So I'd have the losers of each of the four QF's across the two provinces as qualifier group 1. Qualifier group 2 would make up the four losers of the provincial SF's. The qualifiers would have two draws, the first one would be open draw to determine the teams. The second would be a coin toss to determine the home venue of each match-up.

The four qualifier playoff winners go into the AIQF's.
The four provincial finalists would be straight into a AIQF. However, the Munster and Leinster champions would have a home QF, or a venue of their choosing, as a reward for winning the province. The Provincial Champions and runners-up would be drawn against the four Qualifier winners.

One less qualifier game, a proper reward for winning the province, a more structured championship for the clubs and more chance of counties getting to an AI qualifier. Think that would really work.

dblackandamber (Kilkenny) - Posts: 92 - 03/08/2015 16:49:21    1763202

supermon
County: Monaghan
Posts: 888

Good point. I dont think it will ever happen though...

mayo_hurler (Mayo) - Posts: 113 - 03/08/2015 19:20:09    1763305

They should split Kerry into 2 in my opinion. Well Kerry have 37 All Irelands and will probably win again this year and next. Dublin are there only real opposition. Splitting Dublin would hand Kerry almost total control for the next 50 years!

galwayford (Galway) - Posts: 2519 - 03/08/2015 20:03:06    1763348

supermon
County: Monaghan
Posts: 888

1763120 They should split up the Dublin region team into 4 or 5 teams, Fingal, South County Dublin, Dun Laoighre etc etc. In fact there is no official 'County Dublin' anymore. Its a historical entity.

Here is a quote about this, taken from wikipedia but seems fairly true. The area lost its administrative county status in 1994, with Section 9 Part 1(a) of the Local Government (Dublin) Act, 1993 stating that "the county shall cease to exist."
________________________

So there are only 31 counties in Ireland then.

brendtheredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 10897 - 03/08/2015 20:12:32    1763361

galwayford
County: Galway
Posts: 239

I know what you mean about Kerry dominating but it would make much more sense to split Dublin as it is only a traditional county and no longer exists officially.

mayo_hurler (Mayo) - Posts: 113 - 03/08/2015 20:16:56    1763364

I also have begun to believe that 2 or 3 tier is a way to start and winners move up and bottom team move down like junior, intermediate and senior in most counties. I know sean quigley said he would not like change but if he did not get that goal and there were not so many soft frees to give a close match there could have been a 20 point gap or more in score at end of match then he might be thinking different

madbull (Westmeath) - Posts: 195 - 03/08/2015 21:43:14    1763443

Any new system has to have the provincial championships at it's core. The provincial system is unique and to most counties provincial finals and titles mean a lot. Look at the Cork Kerry game this year. That meant something. Look at Sligo, Westmeath and Monaghan. Look at the devestation in Louth five years ago. The provincial system must be retained. Eugene McGee came out with an interesting idea to make it more balanced. Any one who advocates a Champions League system has a hole in their head. That is nothing more than a soulless procession for the big guns . The smaller teams are there to make up the numbers with no chance whatsoever of making a final or winning silverware. The likes of Kerry, Dublin, Mayo would be even harder to eliminate and if anyone thinks the hammerings would stop then think again. These are Kerry's results in the 1979 championship. Kerry 9-21 Clare 1-09. Kerry 2-14 Cork 2-04. Kerry 5-14 Monaghan 0-07. Kerry 3-13 Dublin 1-08. Every game was a hammering. Have a look at the scores in the All-Ireland semi finals and finals in the late seventies and early eighties . Some serious hammerings around that time handed out to newly crowned provincial champions.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 04/08/2015 12:44:49    1763650

I disagree Greengrass.I couldn't disagree more in fact.
As I see it the problem is rooted in the provincial championships.Its time to do away with the in my opinion.They are the reason the championship is unfair, unbalanced, boring, drawn out and predictable.
Football and hurling are in dire need of a re vamp,the GAA need to get radical.

Condorman (Dublin) - Posts: 983 - 04/08/2015 13:17:09    1763681

Why dont they run off the provincial championships and all ireland championships as separate competitions.

Scrap the league totally, run off the provincial championships in the timeframe used currently for the league games and then have an all ireland championship after that based whatever way you want.

The league is pointless anyway, counties can still have a provincial championship to aim for if thats the height of that counties ambitions and everyone still has the right to compete for the all ireland.

You could do it for both codes, no problem.

tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1336 - 04/08/2015 13:18:37    1763684

The much vaunted Champions League has it ills as well. The Premier League is predictable regards the top 5 or 6.

The last 7 football champions haven't made the final in the following year. Munster is unchanged in terms of two Division 1 teams contesting the title. Ulster remains competitive. Connaught and Leinster aren't serving up any decent competition whatsoever.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7840 - 04/08/2015 13:25:37    1763690

Is expectation the problem?

Prior to the back door system many teams knew if you lost you were out. So, many gave effort based on that and if they won the first round they put in extra effort. Now Managers are being paid a lot of money and teams will get at least 2 championship games so a lot more resources are put into teams and everyone expects more. Hence you have a lot of moaning about NFL/NHL results when years ago, teams like cork could lose every league match in hurling and be ready for the championship.

I don't think the domination now is as bad as the 70's & early 80's were (football) but people expect more.

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6480 - 04/08/2015 14:05:00    1763719

Conformance what is your alternative ? Please spare me the Champions League format . That would only strenghthen the position of the stronger counties like Dublin . It would take away whatever chance the weaker counties have of achieving anything . It would take away days like Monaghan , Sligo and Westmeath had this year . Only one team can win under the Champions League format which is nothing more than a procession for the big boys . The provincial system can be made more balanced and has to be retained . What is your alternative ?

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 04/08/2015 14:19:03    1763736

Condorman
County: Dublin
Posts: 329

I disagree Greengrass.I couldn't disagree more in fact.

As I see it the problem is rooted in the provincial championships.Its time to do away with the in my opinion.They are the reason the championship is unfair, unbalanced, boring, drawn out and predictable.

Football and hurling are in dire need of a re vamp,the GAA need to get radical.

I agree with this. I think the Champions League format would work - it means each county getting at least 3 championship games every year. With 8 groups of 4 (1 team from each division) and the Division 4 team having all home games, Div 3 team with 2 home games etc. the weaker counties would soon improve. Then top two teams from each group going into the last 16 and the bottom 2 teams dropping into a secondary knockout. But the provincial championships need to be separated from the AI series at the very least.

opa01 (Cavan) - Posts: 500 - 04/08/2015 14:25:40    1763742

Greengrass
County: Louth
Posts: 3820
The provincial system can be made more balanced and has to be retained.

Why must it be retained? How can it be made more balanced?

Donegal play Mayo on Saturday having played Tyrone, Armagh, Derry Monaghan and Galway while Mayo have played Galway and Sligo. How is this fair or balanced?

opa01 (Cavan) - Posts: 500 - 04/08/2015 14:54:21    1763765

Greengrass ( Note I do you the courtesy of getting your username right) How can the provincial system be fair?
Leinster has 13 counties.
Ulster 8
Munster 6
Connacht 5.
How can you run a fair and balanced championship based on those figures?
Its had its day.
I'm not proposing any alternatives here, thats for the authorities to come up with I am just stressing the fact that the provincial system is finished.

Condorman (Dublin) - Posts: 983 - 04/08/2015 15:07:54    1763777