So lads,

People talk about 2 tiers. I think we need 3. Kildare hammered by Kerry and Dublin but hammer Longford in return.

That's just one example. Who will make up the tiers? I think tier one can be small, maybe 5-
6 teams. Kerry,Dublin,Cork,Mayo,Monaghan and Donegal.

daytona11 (Kildare) - Posts: 4012 - 02/08/2015 16:57:09    1762515

I think that would just widen the gap because of bigger attendances generating more money and the regular high standard improving the top teams further.

A Champs League/Heineken Cup/World Cup style competition would be better. 8 groups of 4 with 2 going through to last 16 while bottom 2 in each group go theory to an All-Ireland Shield competition, which would improve your seeding for the next year.

You could even have bonus points for winning by say >10 or losing by <3 to make mismatches relevant.

The lower tier teams would still get to test themselves against the best while also having meaningful competition. The top teams would be facing similar tasks each year instead of the farce of allowing the Cork-Kerry carve up compared to what Monaghan (for example) face. Everyone would get at least 4 games. The finalists would play the same number of games each year

Count_Awesome (Kildare) - Posts: 736 - 02/08/2015 17:06:51    1762519

McGuinness's system is still the best I've seen.

There are always going to be mismatches here & there, every sport has them, but there can be no doubt, today has been a truly dispiriting day.

MuckrossHead (Donegal) - Posts: 5028 - 02/08/2015 17:11:08    1762520

Even with a league based system your going to get regular hidings like the games we saw today and all during the championship.

Go like the hurling for me. When teams prove they are good enough, or earn their right to be in with the big boys then promote them.

But hammerings and knowing the outcome of games is getting beyond a joke. The championship doesnt start until semi finals...

daytona11 (Kildare) - Posts: 4012 - 02/08/2015 17:23:59    1762526

Not sure if the opening post is sarcasm or not but assuming not then there is nothing a 3 tier championship can do to improve the divide that exists except widen it further. Look at the hurling, has any team actually benefited from a tiered system?

I would certainly agree that the current trend is getting worrying. There is a hierarchy of teams in all competitions in all sports and that has existed since the year dot in the GAA too. But the current dominance of Dublin and Mayo in their respective provinces is not good. To a lesser extent Donegal and Monaghan have edged ahead in Ulster and started to maintain it.

Former_Poster (Meath) - Posts: 394 - 02/08/2015 18:02:59    1762583

daytona11 I dont recall any 30 point wins in the league or teams scoring 7 goals a half

DoireCityFC (Derry) - Posts: 1580 - 03/08/2015 10:09:48    1762876

tiered championship is debates for forums only. A lot of old school heads run county boards, lads who grew up in the 60s and 70s. These boys are never giving up the provinces.

switec (Kildare) - Posts: 525 - 03/08/2015 10:16:23    1762883

Former poster it wasnt that long it was tyrone and armagh who were streets ahead in ulster. These things go in cycles.

The championship is cup football. I don't want to see that change. Those seeking change are from the traditionally good counties. Look at Sean Quigleys tweet to the sunday game last night. He doesn't want to see change. Those lads would rather their big day out rather than winning a b cup.

gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4971 - 03/08/2015 10:18:45    1762886

Realistically, because the provincial councils hold so much power, change will be curtailed by a desire to maintain the current provincial format. In that context, the Jimmy McGuinness proposal Is the best option as it maintains some relevance for provincial championships, and increases the importance of the league. Also people should be vary of so-called "champions league" formats- remember, there are a lot of rubbish games in the early stages of the CL and it really only gets going during the knockout stages...

football first (None) - Posts: 1259 - 03/08/2015 10:24:12    1762891

That's just one example. Who will make up the tiers? I think tier one can be small, maybe 5-
6 teams. Kerry,Dublin,Cork,Mayo,Monaghan and Donegal.

Straight away I would be saying if Cork are in there so must Kildare, Tyrone, Galway, possibly Fermanagh and maybe one or two others. Even if Cork were not included a case could be made for one or two of these teams.

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 03/08/2015 10:26:08    1762893

gotmilk
County: Fermanagh
Posts: 2268

1762886 Former poster it wasnt that long it was tyrone and armagh who were streets ahead in ulster. These things go in cycles.

The championship is cup football. I don't want to see that change. Those seeking change are from the traditionally good counties. Look at Sean Quigleys tweet to the sunday game last night. He doesn't want to see change. Those lads would rather their big day out rather than winning a b cup.

The entire competition is suffering in order to pander to the weaker counties rather than to create as much entertaiument as possible (all sport is is entertainment despite some people in sport thinking it's above that).Fermanagh would have as much chance of getting to a quarter final in system with 3 tiers as they have crrently as they would get promoted through the ranks just like in the league.

I'm from Offaly and I'm fed up of going to one of 2 matches a summer and most of our matches being played in the winter and spring.Football is a summer sport and the majority of matches should be in the summer.We have our championship arseways if the league was the main competition and playted in the summer it would be a great competition as you would gte the best teams paying each other rmore often and everybody would ahev soemthing to play for every year.2015 is another championship seoson where the majority of it has been quite boiring and we're waiting until August for any decent matches and I (and I suspect a fair few more, even from weaker counties) are getting fed up of it.

all club championshoips in Ireland are organised into divisons.Why is it that there is a problem doing so for intercounty championship.It really doesn't make any sense and the current strcutures are holding the game back.

uibhfhaili1986 (Offaly) - Posts: 1296 - 03/08/2015 10:37:35    1762902

Would a tired championship close the gap between the top 4 and the rest? no what is the point it would only widen the gap between the top few and the rest. No team has come up from the christy ring and done anything at senior level and we have seen some counties who would be seen as strong hurling counties get thrashing this year. A top group of six would be extremely dull championship indeed especially when 2 of your teams Cork and Monaghan have no chance of getting to a final never mind winning it. Most teams outside the top 4 are at a similar enough level introducing a tiered championship would only make the weak weaker, gates for 2 or 3 tier competitions would be much less and these counties who are already at a massive financial disadvantage to the top teams would even have less monies then the have now.

ros1 (Roscommon) - Posts: 1211 - 03/08/2015 12:04:57    1762984

Spot on Ros.

gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4971 - 03/08/2015 12:26:13    1762996

ROS1

Spot on! I see Quigley of Fermanagh said he would not play in a TWO tier champ,I am sure many players think the same.Crowds would go down,fans would lose interest,star players would not play perhaps,look,there will never be a perfect system.But making tier champs would make the problems worse.I would rather my own county try and compete with the best in the coming years,but going down tiers would not help that at all,infact it could ruin football in a lot of counties.

ziggy32001 (Meath) - Posts: 8354 - 03/08/2015 12:34:55    1763000

Hasn't it always been the case that only a few counties can win the All-Ireland down through the years anyway??

ziggy32001 (Meath) - Posts: 8354 - 03/08/2015 12:36:09    1763001

Using the tiers in hurling as a resaon not to have a tiered football championship is not a good comparison.

The teams in the lower tiers of hurling have never had any success or much interest in the sport so they were never going to be any good reggardless of the championship system.

Do people honestly think Tyrone would fall away completely if they suffered a set back of being in the second tier or would they work their way back to the elite.

Teams have moved through the divisions in the league over the years and the same would happen in a 3 tier championship.

There are far too many pointless games in the football championship and the championship is getting more and more boring.The league is now the more interesting competition but it is played at the wrong time of the year.

uibhfhaili1986 (Offaly) - Posts: 1296 - 03/08/2015 12:49:58    1763024

Can the GAA move into the 21st century with their formats. Guaranteeing the likes of Carlow and wicklow a max of 2 matches after the clocks change does nothing for those counties. Here is a suggestion. Play the leagues, 3 divisions of 10/11 or 2 of 16, run the provincial championships as separate knockout competitions along the all Ireland championship, teams play in four eights (x2) - Home and away fixtures, with the top 16, with group winners getting home advantage, going forward for the Sam Maguire cup. Every county is guaranteed 8 Championship games and possibly 25 games overall. The bottom 16 play the all Ireland B championship and make it compulsory to field teams. This would mean that the smaller counties would be guaranteed a shot at wining sam, and still have something to play for afterwards.

The present championship was devised in the early 20th century when travel around the country was difficult. The players if you ask them would want to play every week,and have the all Ireland final in the middle of August, giving an extra month for club championships. When they don't have competitive games every week, the vacuum is filled with meaningless friendlies, sometimes two per weekend

I don't agree with many things Pat Spillane says, but when he says standards in weaker counties wont improve with 2 games per year, he is bang on. This is the issue. There must be an incentive for the likes of Brendan Murphy and Leighton Glynn. The season outlined above would mean that weaker counties would be playing the bigger counties more regularly, thereby seeing what the standard is.

galwaydublin (Galway) - Posts: 226 - 03/08/2015 13:15:13    1763047

3 tiers of 10-11 teams

Tier 1
Top 4 into the last 8 of All Ireland Series Knockout.
5-8 placed teams into the last 12 of All Ireland Series Knockout.

Tier 2
Top 2 into the last 12 of All Ireland Series Knockout

Tier 3
Top 2 into the last 12 of All Ireland Series Knockout

Should only have serious mismatches in the last 12 round but this round would be necessary to give everyone a route to sam and give some weaker teams a big match in croker.

Get rid of the league. Play provincial championships in March/April

centerfield (Mayo) - Posts: 360 - 03/08/2015 20:37:29    1763375

uibhfhaili1986 (Offaly)...great post. I'm from longford , I KNOW I will NEVER see my county win Sam. I would much rather see them play in their own tier of a league based championship where they can be competitive. There could be an open draw cup competition alongside this league championship to give the underdogs the odd big day out. If a county finds an exceptional crop of players the team will progress through the tiers anyway.

catchturnscore (Longford) - Posts: 149 - 03/08/2015 21:08:21    1763405