Should the winners of the Ulster football championship get a bye to the All Ireland Semi Final?

sportsfan14 (USA) - Posts: 281 - 22/07/2015 13:13:26    1757512

No. Why should they?

gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4971 - 22/07/2015 13:22:00    1757515

Why I don't think any Ulster County would expect that. Bizarre thread.

sam1884 (UK) - Posts: 999 - 22/07/2015 13:25:29    1757520

Should the Ulster Hurling Champions not get a place in the All-Ireland Hurling QF? Munster and Leinster champions get straight in to the Semis.

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 22/07/2015 13:27:09    1757523

Don't agree but I think some of the other provincial winners and runner ups should play extra qualifier match. e.g Munster beaten finalists could enter qualifiers in the 3rd round and 4th round for the Munster Champions.

crikey (Australia) - Posts: 355 - 22/07/2015 13:32:04    1757526

Offside_Rule
County: Antrim
Posts: 2419

Sure how is that fair for Connacht? All the Ulster counties are Christy Ring level or below... which is the same over here (apart from Galway). A better idea is to put the Christy Ring winners into the QFs rather than into Leinster

mayo_hurler (Mayo) - Posts: 113 - 22/07/2015 13:50:55    1757537

should there be an open draw in this "knockout" competition.
let the league take prominence

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5518 - 22/07/2015 14:06:08    1757546

Mayo hurler - my comment was a bit tongue in cheek/bit serious but I didn't mention Connacht as currently there is no Senior Provincial Hurling Championship down west. We have a Championship which, looking at this year, has 5 Counties in it. Now, you mention standard which was where I was angling at in my last post and if we look at the Football Championship (which the topic is about) and where the Provinces sit with regards to standard (using which leagues the teams are playing in next year):

Ulster - 8 of the 9 teams in Div 1 or 2 (other in Div 4)
Leinster - 3 out of 12 in Div 1 or 2 (5 in Div 3 and 4 in Div 4)
Munster - 2 out of 6 in Div 1 or 2 (3 in Div 3 and 1 Div 4)
Connacht - 3 out of 5 in Div 1 or 2 (other in Div 4)

Yet all Provinces are treated on more equal basis i.e. you enter rounds of the qualifiers based on when you get knocked out and all Provincial winners get a 1/4 final spot automatically. Yet they seem to look at the standard of teams in the hurling championship and base it all around that and the Ulster Championship doesn't even feature as a path to the McCarthy cup. So on this basis I can understand why people would ask the question should the Ulster Football winners be treated similarly to the Leinster and Munster hurling champions.

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 22/07/2015 14:10:01    1757551

Yes they should : simple as .

TheRightStuff (Donegal) - Posts: 1688 - 22/07/2015 15:03:31    1757583

Am I right in saying that 4 different teams have won the Ulster Championship in the last 7/8 years??

Brolly (Monaghan) - Posts: 4472 - 22/07/2015 15:18:55    1757598

You are indeed Brolly, 4 different winners in the last 8 years. You would also be right though in saying there have been 4 different winners in the last 17 years due to Armagh and Tyrone sharing it between themselves for 12 years straight. Connacht have had 4 different winners in the last 9 years, despite Mayo completing their 5-in-a-row Sunday.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 22/07/2015 15:38:58    1757614

I believe Ulster is the only province to have each county take part in a provincal final since 2001. I also think that Connacht is the last province that each county won the provincal title.

gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4971 - 22/07/2015 15:42:46    1757621

22/07/2015 13:32:04
crikey
County: Australia
Posts: 96

1757526
Don't agree but I think some of the other provincial winners and runner ups should play extra qualifier match. e.g Munster beaten finalists could enter qualifiers in the 3rd round and 4th round for the Munster Champions.

if that applies to munster then surely it should apply to leinster and connaught too? Each is equally if not less competitive

tipp11 (Tipperary) - Posts: 353 - 22/07/2015 15:49:05    1757627

Westmeath had to beat Louth Wexford Meath just to get to the Leinster Final. It would be unfair to ask Westmeath to enter the 3rd round of qualifiers after losing the Leinster final. There are several teams in Leinster teams who are still competitive especially at home. Wexford beat a very good Down team. My suggestion is just get the Munster finalists to play an extra game..more in line with Ulster and Leinster. On the issue of Leinster being weak I'd give Westmeath, Meath, Kildare Wexford or Laois a chance against at home against any team. It would be difficult for them away though .

crikey (Australia) - Posts: 355 - 23/07/2015 09:45:00    1757830

Is this a wind up? Yes, Ulster is the most competitive province on that you have allot of teams at the same level. The fact there is 8 Ulster teams in the first two divisions next year might suggest you have grounds for your thread, but you'd only rank three of them in the top 10 (Donegal, Monaghan, Tyrone), that leaves 5 Ulster Counties in the 11-16 ranked places in the country. Allot of good teams but few outstanding ones, as evidenced by the fact that Donegal and Monaghan meet in the final for the third consecutive year.

If Ulster was that strong that they deserved an bye into the AISF, then they would need at least three of the qualifier teams coming through every year. It has happened in the past, but doesn't happen that regularly. This year Fermanagh and Tyrone have made it, along with Galway and Kildare.

Much has been made of the fact that Donegal had to beat Tyrone, Armagh and Derry to make an Ulster Final, but Galway had to beat Armagh and Derry just to make round 4, and Galway were nowhere near being good enough to win Connacht, which goes back to my point of allot of good teams but few outstanding ones.

I love the Ulster championship, but it is not as unpredictable or competitive as people think. Donegal are the only serious contender for the All Ireland (debatable this year), Tyrone an outside bet, and Monaghan IMO a bit short of what is required to take on the likes of Kerry, Dublin and Mayo in a Croke Park All Ireland series game. Don't forget, for all it competitiveness, only four counties have won the Ulster title in the last 17 years. Armagh and Tyrone shared 12 titles between 1999-2010 and met in many classic games, while Donegal and Monaghan have shared every title since 2011. Ulsters best chance of an All Ireland this year is Tyrone, but I cant see Sam going north.

It is for this reason that I don't think the Ulster champions should get a semi place. Ulster will for the foreseeable future will always have 6-8 of the country's top 16 teams, but will only ever have a max of 2 All Ireland contenders in any year. Ulsters 9 All Ireland titles since 1991 make them the most successful province since then, but a bye into the semis for the champions is ridiculous.

galwaydublin (Galway) - Posts: 226 - 23/07/2015 10:25:02    1757848

The qualifiers are an equal opportunities route for all teams. Ulster is deservedly still on track for 4 quarter-finalists.

Ulster has a decent rotation of strong competitive teams. It was Armagh and Tyrone in the last decade. The current decade so far has been Donegal and Monaghan.

The strength of Kerry, the capital, Mayo and the Munster runners-up is reflected in their consistent enough Division 1 status.

Their is nothing prohibiting Ulster having 2 All-Ireland semi-finalists. They have a good chance of it this year.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7846 - 23/07/2015 10:47:19    1757861

Munster is pretty much always cork kerry because both are constantly excellent teams whereas leinster and connaught have only one really. We are the third best team in Munster and if were in connaught or leinster would be contesting finals. In the last 5 years of the qualifiers we've beaten 5 leinster teams and lost to none.

tipp11 (Tipperary) - Posts: 353 - 23/07/2015 10:51:27    1757864

tipp11
County: Tipperary
Posts: 139

if that applies to munster then surely it should apply to leinster and connaught too? Each is equally if not less competitive

NO.I don't agree as Crikey has said. Westmeath had to play 3 games to get to the final wheras both Cork/Kerry and Mayo/Sligo had only one game to play. the absurdity of the connacht championship is that Glaway would have had to play 3 games to get to the final.
something seriously wrong there. why did Galway have to play a preliminary match, a quarter-final and a semi-final whereas both Sligo and Mayo obly had to play a semi-final... it's time to take New York out of connacht and put them in to Leinster. then there would be no need for the preliminary round in connacht. actually scrap the whole blooming provincial system.. it's a total farce.

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5518 - 23/07/2015 10:57:22    1757868

Classic grenade launch , sit back and enjoy the show , or at least I would if there hasn't been 100 or so poor Ulster threads , yawn .

Damothedub (Dublin) - Posts: 5193 - 23/07/2015 11:00:33    1757870

Tipp11
Tipp are a very good team. And their form especially against Leinster teams over the last 5 years has been excellent . Can't understand how they're still in Div 3.

crikey (Australia) - Posts: 355 - 23/07/2015 12:23:43    1757932