At Central Council, apparently the 2x6 was retained without discussion of alternatives - Is GAA saving face on chopping and changing ?

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2580 - 20/07/2015 14:22:56    1756389

Difficult to know.

Before, the top 8 were in division 1. Then this was changed to 2 x 6 with the elite in 1A & 2 of the previous big 8 in 1B.

Essentially I'd like to see the NHL be remodelled along provincial lines. Anyone in the McCarthy cup should be playing in division 1. Have a Munster section (1A) and a Leinster/Rest of Ireland section (1B). The top 2 in each province go into the semi finals and then a final. With Kerry playing in division 1, this would make Munster a 6 team league and Leinster would be a 7/8 team league.

I'd like to see this trialled for one year just to see how things would go. If it worked well, it would be a possible championship format going forward.

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6480 - 20/07/2015 17:29:50    1756562

I love the league the way it is.
Almost every game is important, and teams (and supporters) are taking the thing seriously.

joncarter (Galway) - Posts: 2692 - 20/07/2015 17:42:47    1756574

Why do you want to change it. Why do we feel we need to change everything all the time. The League is working and IMO was better entertainment that the championship so far.

ZUL10 (Clare) - Posts: 693 - 20/07/2015 17:55:53    1756589

Hurling league has real bite to all matches. Why would anyone want change? Probably to avoid the likes of Cork/Kilkenny getting relegated from 1A.

Would love to see the football league split into divisions of 6.

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1105 - 20/07/2015 17:58:58    1756591

It would have been controversial to have change the set-up after Kerry gained promotion. The play-off between 1B and 2A should be removed but I suppose Kerry should have it to our advantage for at least one year.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7840 - 20/07/2015 18:55:13    1756629

If they did remove the promotion/relegation playoff in the interest of fairness , you'd probably have a lot of complaints about how they only made it easier to get relegated once Kerry went up.

CastleBravo (Meath) - Posts: 1643 - 21/07/2015 10:45:11    1756795

The 2 groups of 6 is fine but where it falls down is the quarter final set up and the relegation set up from 1B.

I mean we had the situation where Offaly made the quarter finals due to finishing 4th in 1B and Kilkenny didnt because they didnt finish in the top 4 of 1A which is far harder than finishing top 4 in 1B. That makes zero sense to me.

tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1336 - 21/07/2015 11:19:50    1756823

The league in its current format is excellent - far better than the Championship. Every weekend there's great games to look forward to - even in division 1b.
Its also great for players I'm sure cause the like to play matches! That's the whole reason for the massive dedication but there's a more important entity which has to be satisfied - far more important than any player/team - the Provincial Councils

Ban (Westmeath) - Posts: 1415 - 21/07/2015 11:33:07    1756833

The concerns for me is this Div 1B playoff where the team who loses that relegation final gets another chance to save their skin. That should be changed.
Also 1B is nearly always a shoot out to see who wins the group. Luckily the last 2 years teams have been separated by competition points rather than the amount of points they scored over the course of the league.
1 point over the course of the league is the difference between going up and staying in 1B.

WildPundit (Tipperary) - Posts: 1709 - 21/07/2015 11:36:52    1756836

Agree with WildPundit on 1B.

No disrespect to the other sides, we have had very tough games from all of them. But realistically each year it is Limerick v Wexford, Limerick v Waterford, Limerick v Clare, or Limerick v Dublin going for the spot in 1A. We have failed to go back up, the others (Wexford apart) have had their time in 1B.

The format I added above would cut down on travel, would be of benefit to teams like Limerick, Kerry, Carlow, Westmeath, Laois, Offaly & Antrim. Possibly the only counties who would not benefit are Kilkenny & Galway.

The current structure is actually quite good, but I don't think it benefits the sides outside of division 1.

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6480 - 21/07/2015 13:23:25    1756926

The current structure benefits the teams in Div 1. Not changing the structure has nothing to do with Kerry being promoted. It is more about ensuring the status quo.

In div 1b, counties with scant resources have no option but to play their very strongest teams, in every game, in order that they can win sufficient points to retain their 1b status. These counties do not have the luxury of fielding experimental teams or trying out large numbers of new/younger players. They don't have them!

The recent championship drubbings show how the gap between 1a + 1b is getting wider. This not good for the game nationally. The elite are getting eliter!

The elephant in the room is money, pounds or euros, made available and spent on development and coaching in the weaker counties. Some traditional counties are falling into this 'weaker' bracket. The attitude of Croke Park, provincial councils and some county boards to hurling is alarming and very disappointing. With the numbers of players available for GAA games in rural areas diminishing at an alarming rate, for different reasons. We are in danger of manufacturing an 'elite' exhibition set up for our national game in years to come. No harm to the football fans, but Sunday's Ulster football final was dire as a spectacle.

As one county manager once said to his team. 'We need to wake up and smell the cornflakes!"

Glensboy (Antrim) - Posts: 287 - 21/07/2015 14:14:59    1756983

I dont understand those that say the system only favours those in Div 1A. Of course it is more beneficial to be in the top division, thats why it called a league but where do you suggest we draw the line? Chopin and changing to allow certain teams participate in the top division simply because of their reputation is not a good enough excuse. Limerick are in div 1b because waterfors have proven themselves a better team. Clare are on their way down because they werent good enough. Laois, Kerry and offally get to play Clare and Limerick which is great for them. Leave it alone!

ZUL10 (Clare) - Posts: 693 - 21/07/2015 18:28:50    1757165

Agree with previos poster. The legaue is fine as it is. The reason the likes of Limerick & Wexford are in Division 2 (I don't understand this 1A & 1B nonsense) is because they don't deserve to be in division 1. Every games means something in divsion 1 and to a lesser degree in division 2.

If you can't top a league where the only contenders are the likes of Clare/Wexford/Limerick, you can't have much complaints about not being in division 1.

county man (Limerick) - Posts: 1102 - 21/07/2015 18:57:05    1757183

Glensboy
County: Antrim
In div 1b, counties with scant resources have no option but to play their very strongest teams, in every game, in order that they can win sufficient points to retain their 1b status. These counties do not have the luxury of fielding experimental teams or trying out large numbers of new/younger players. They don't have them!
The recent championship drubbings show how the gap between 1a + 1b is getting wider. This not good for the game nationally. The elite are getting eliter!

While I agree that money and resources needed to be invested in every province and city, Belfast especially, the above complaints are just ridiculous. You're essentially complaining that 1b is competitive. What would you prefer, have the league be just a series of challenge matches? Teams being required to field their best players to compete is actually a good sign of the current format. Teams in 1a are also fielding their strongest teams now, Kilkenny nearly got relegated this year. If a team isn't strong enough to be in 1b, then they should be in 2A. 2A is actually a pretty strong division, considering neither Carlow or Westmeath could make it out of it this year.

As for the gap between 1a and 1b getting wider, what are you talking about? Waterford were in 1b this year, they went on to win the league, then beat Cork (who finished 2nd in 1A), to reach the Munster final. 4 of the 6 teams in 1B go on to league quarter-finals anyway. All a team has to do in 1b is to avoid being in the bottom 2, and they get the same stage in the league as the top team in 1a. Its not a bad deal.

Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 21/07/2015 19:46:16    1757211

I definitely wouldn't change it for the sake of it. My only reason for change was to organise it along provincial lines.

I agree with the other posters above - Limerick haven't been good enough to get out of 1B, nobody to blame only ourselves. The reason we are there stems back to the 2010 strike. We won the second tier in 2011 and the GAA changed the format which kept us in the second tier but we've had chances to go up since and messed them up.

The current format should be offering everyone 5 competetive games but I'd like to hear from people in counties who are participating outside of division 1. Is the format of the NHL & Championship improving hurling in their county? Carlow, Kerry & Westmeath all seem to be showing improvement, but how about the sides who have been languishing in divisions 2 & 3? What would they change, if anything?

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6480 - 22/07/2015 08:06:51    1757323

Marlo_jd "While I agree that money and resources needed to be invested in every province and city, Belfast especially, the above complaints are just ridiculous. You're essentially complaining that 1b is competitive."

The while I agree...........but is telling. Where is the money for development and the necessary coaches that are needed to advance the game?.

1a is competitive, however the top counties use the league as a springboard for Championship, trying out new payers and formations. The 'lesser' counties don't have that luxury. With small panels of quality players, this takes its toll. I know in our county 5/6 of our top players were injured during the league and are struggling to be fit to play any sort of game. iv 2a was competitive except that Waterford were exceptional. The gap between the 'haves' and 'have nots' is getting wider. Ignore it at your peril.

Clare 3.26
Offaly 0.15

Dublin 4.17
Laois 0.19

Kilkenny 5.25
Wexford 0.16

Tipperary 4.23
Limerick 1.16

Galway 3.28
Laois 1.14

Glensboy (Antrim) - Posts: 287 - 22/07/2015 11:29:09    1757419

Glensboy
County: Antrim

The results you've listed have nothing to do with league structure. Galway also hammered Dublin in the championship, both 1a teams. Limerick (1b) beat Clare (1a) in the championship. Waterford (1b) won the league, and beat Cork (1a) in Munster.

And this waffle about 1a teams getting to experiment, while 1b teams have to field their strongets temas, is nonsense. Kilkenny nearly got relegated this year, that doesn't happen if all other 1a teams are just trying out players. And its actually easier to make the quarter finals if you're in 1b, than if you're in 1a. So if anything,its the other way round.

What exactly is your gripe about the current league structure, how would you see it improved? It seems you think its too competitive, would you prefer Antrim to drop down a division? Or would you prefer if no-one took the league seriously?

Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 22/07/2015 15:07:54    1757588

Marion_JD. You completely miss my point. I would advocate that the 'top' teams don't take the league seriously. They use it as a testing ground for new players and formations to prepare for championship. The 'lesser ' teams do not have that luxury!
Kilkenny did not get relegated. 'Nearly' never won or lost anything. The fact that the league is competitive is a bonus.

Dublin have made strides in the last few years because of investment in coaching structures. You get that?

If you think that any of the top teams would consider winning the League as being a successful season, I don't buy this one bit.

Real contenders for the top prize are scarce. This cannot be healthy, in any sport. Some people are quite happy to maintain this status quo.

Glensboy (Antrim) - Posts: 287 - 22/07/2015 15:40:58    1757618

Glensboy
County: Antrim

I didn't miss your point, you maintain 1a teams take the league less seriously that 1b teams. You're wrong.

But apart from that, what has any of this got to do with the current league structure? What structure change would address the problems that you perceive in the league?

Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1823 - 22/07/2015 16:09:34    1757645