Genuine question to supporters from the province. Assuming Donegal overcome Derry, and all the signs are that they will, then this will see them play each other for the third final in a row yet people tell us that this is the most 'competitive' province. In fact it will be Donegal's fifth final in a row and only 4 teams will have made the 10 final places available in the final over the past 5 years. That's the same as Leinster, which we are told is the least competitive province, and there is no point in even mentioning the farce that is Munster. So has Ulster lost it's competitive edge and are the non-finalists now falling a good deal back like the non-Dubs in Leinster? It casts a further shadow over the value of the provincial championships IMO. They are nothing but a dry run for the real competition now, the AI series.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 25/06/2015 15:19:59    1742625

Donegal, Donegal and Donegal

pdempsey (Mayo) - Posts: 1313 - 25/06/2015 16:07:05    1742659

Maybe wait til Donegal beat Derry before any conclusions are drawn.

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12120 - 25/06/2015 16:33:19    1742677

You would have to say that although there are fairly regularly competitive enough games that Antrim,Fermanagh,Cavan,Derry and Down are second tier Ulster teams the last few years to Donegal and Monaghan with Tyrone and Armagh unlikely to trouble the top counties for Sam also. Tyrone will still have a say in the destination of the All Ireland but they are not good enough to win it.

SLLY (Dublin) - Posts: 463 - 25/06/2015 16:56:54    1742689

There's a lot of rivalry and competitiveness in Ulster but Donegal are still ahead of the rest. They have a great chance of another Ulster title but Monaghan will not make it easy. Still more competitive I would think than Leinster and Munster but really only 2/3 teams that will win it for last few years.

Dubh_linn (Dublin) - Posts: 2312 - 25/06/2015 17:03:22    1742695

Yes it has lost it for now but unlike the other provinces , it will change again . It will always be Cork and Kerry down South while Mayo / Galway will dominate the west . In 10 years it may be a new rivalry in Ulster ie : Down and Cavan

TheRightStuff (Donegal) - Posts: 1688 - 25/06/2015 18:16:59    1742735

As opposed to the other provinces the answer is no. Good bit of fishing though.

Brolly (Monaghan) - Posts: 4472 - 25/06/2015 18:35:23    1742749

All 9 counties have played a final since 2008, good going although us and monaghan have taken a step ahead recently

joeteor (Donegal) - Posts: 217 - 25/06/2015 19:06:35    1742762

to be fair Monaghan only beat us by a point in the quarter final so you can't say that wasn't competitive.

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5518 - 25/06/2015 19:51:23    1742776

I disagree, If anything the standard of most Ulster teams is steadily Improving. The top 2 sides this decade ( Donegal and Monaghan ), are different from the top 2 last decade ( Armagh and Tyrone ). Donegal v Tyrone, Cavan v Monaghan, Antrim v Fermanagh, and Monaghan v Fermanagh were all fairly competitive games, with Monaghan v Fermanagh being fairly close until the Fermanagh sending off. Donegal tanking Armagh was one game, and with the top 2 sides still Improving at present, It is making it even harder for the other sides to actually catch up or even overtake them. However the overall standard in the province is clearly getting better.

When Donegal achieved their first Ulster title of this era in 2011, Ulster football as a whole was at its lowest point for 3 or 4 years.

Ok Down contested the 2010 All Ireland final, they failed to build on that. Tyrone deteriorated after the 2008 All Ireland win, and while they were still the top dog in Ulster, they were well off the pace of Cork, Kerry and Dublin. Armagh has fallen way off the pace from 2007, and only last season started showing signs of recovery.

Monaghan stepped up in 2013 to the standard Donegal had set, and are continuing to rise. Tyrone are clearly Improving, and were very unlucky to be relegated from Division 1 after some superb performances. While Armagh got tanked by Donegal, they are still an emerging team and are clearly on the up.
Down, Cavan, Fermanagh and Antrim are Improving.

And as for Derry, well we beat Down and we aren't out of the Ulster Championship just yet.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 25/06/2015 19:52:48    1742777

It probably is not at its most competitve right now with Donegal the one exceptional team. I actually do not think Monaghan being in 3 finals in a row and having won one makes them a clear second and a cut above the rest but rather is more indicative of the luck they have enjoyed in the draws.

You also have to remember that before last season Donegal were written off by any on here as a spent force. Also while Donegal are at their peak over the last 4 years they have still been run close on a good few occasions and beaten in this time.

Finally when looking at Ulster all but one of the teams are in Division 1 or 2 of the national league which should give you a good idea. Less said about Antrim the better :)

Naysayer (Antrim) - Posts: 2071 - 25/06/2015 19:56:22    1742779

Dubh_linn
County: Dublin
Posts: 302

1742695
There's a lot of rivalry and competitiveness in Ulster but Donegal are still ahead of the rest. They have a great chance of another Ulster title but Monaghan will not make it easy. Still more competitive I would think than Leinster and Munster but really only 2/3 teams that will win it for last few years.

Donegal and Monaghan are both getting better, rather than fading away as some had predicted or hoped.

So while the rest are actually all getting better too, they are naturally going to be some way behind the two strongest sides. Looking around all the other sides in Ulster, the overall standard has really Improved in every single county.

GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 25/06/2015 19:57:42    1742780

In the last 7 years 4 different Leinster counties have appeared in All-Ireland semi finals but only 3 from Ulster. But because Ulster has not had one outstanding side like Dublin in Leinster their provincial is much more unpredictable. Would be nice to see a different pairing in the ulster final next year if Derry can't do it Saturday.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 25/06/2015 21:54:55    1742858

Dubh_linn County: Dublin Posts: 302 1742695 There's a lot of rivalry and competitiveness in Ulster but Donegal are still ahead of the rest. They have a great chance of another Ulster title but Monaghan will not make it easy. Still more competitive I would think than Leinster and Munster but really only 2/3 teams that will win it for last few years. Donegal and Monaghan are both getting better, rather than fading away as some had predicted or hoped. So while the rest are actually all getting better too, they are naturally going to be some way behind the two strongest sides. Looking around all the other sides in Ulster, the overall standard has really Improved in every single county.
Garymac82,
There has probably been a similar scenario in a couple of the provinces over the last few years with the gap still difficult to close on the top team. IMO there are still only 4 teams who can win the AI with Donegal still the clear fore runner for ulster. It would be great if Derry could shake things up and cause an upset but I just can't see it happening. Good luck anyhow.

SLLY (Dublin) - Posts: 463 - 26/06/2015 08:43:11    1742875

Spot on Breffni39. I think Antrims win over laois (at home) last week said alot. Most would say the worst team in Ulster beating who many think where the only possible threat to Dublin this year.


Also the only province with all teams still in the championship.......i think

DoireCityFC (Derry) - Posts: 1580 - 26/06/2015 09:13:43    1742892

No I don't think it is bar the fact the one exceptional team may be above the rest to a greater degree than other years.

Ulster doesn't have any more exceptional teams than other provinces but it does have a higher proportion of teams at a higher level than the rest. So realistically the gap from the pack in Ulster is easier to bridge than the gap in other provinces.

What could change that is the dominance of Donegal and their potential to keep their underage structures in rude health. For all the talk in the 00's about Tyrone being here to stay it didn't materialise and they regressed into the pack.

In that event Ulster would become like Leinster with Donegal dominating long term but such a statement would be premature at this stage. This Donegal team are exceptional but it will be their ability to replicate the Murphys, Lacey's and McFaddens of this world that will decide it. If they can't they too will follow the path of Tyrone.

seany16 (Dublin) - Posts: 1658 - 26/06/2015 09:39:34    1742908

joeteor
County: Donegal
Posts: 47

1742762
All 9 counties have played a final since 2008, good going although us and monaghan have taken a step ahead recently

Only 8 of the 9 have....not letting Cavan away with that!

seanfinn (Monaghan) - Posts: 360 - 26/06/2015 11:03:10    1742962

Cavan will come good and so will derry. Great underage structures and teams. Only a matter of time

DoireCityFC (Derry) - Posts: 1580 - 26/06/2015 11:24:15    1742979

The best thing about the Ulster Championship is one or two teams will not dominate over a sustained period of time. At the minute Donegal are streets ahead of the rest and enjoying probably their best ever team. Think back 7 years ago and the preceeding 7 years where Armagh and Tyrone ruled the roost. No matter how good Donegal are at the minute they will not be dominating beyond the next three years. Ulster football always throws up great teams to catch you.a

sam1884 (UK) - Posts: 999 - 26/06/2015 11:43:34    1742993

Soma
County: UK
Posts: 1033

1742858
In the last 7 years 4 different Leinster counties have appeared in All-Ireland semi finals but only 3 from Ulster. But because Ulster has not had one outstanding side like Dublin in Leinster their provincial is much more unpredictable. Would be nice to see a different pairing in the ulster final next year if Derry can't do it Saturday.

Soma....Donegal are every bit as outstanding as Dublin. No question.

Aside from Dublin, only Meath have won Sam in the last 33 years. In that space of time 5 different Ulster sides have actually won Sam. When was the last time a team from Leinster other than Dublin won Sam? (It was 1999). You can take any bit of stats to suit any agenda. The only thing to do in relation to the subject of this thread is look at Dominance of the province. All provinces have a dominant side for a period of time. In Ulster it tends to change hands a little more frequently as the chasing pack are never far behind. There is no side in leinster even close to the jackeens. No side in munster close to the big two (nor has there ever been really) and it seems Mayo continue to dominate the west. Nobody will be shocked if Monaghan win Ulster (at the start nobody would have been shocked if Tyrone did either). I don't think we can say the same for the others. The only thing that has shocked me so far is how poor Armagh were against Donegal and how one of the 'chasing pack' of Leinster lost to our perceived weakest team.

seanfinn (Monaghan) - Posts: 360 - 26/06/2015 11:48:51    1742996