Now that each county board has been asked to submit a proposal for changing the all ireland (and league if necessary) it looks like change could be in the offing after all. Time for county boards to take their heads from the sand.

The debate on whats best might never end but at least Central Council might get a general consensus on what changes are most important.

I would hope that our own county board consult the clubs on this (and the clubs consult their members) but I doubt it.
The old boys brigade will probably say its fine as it is.

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1109 - 25/06/2015 09:46:53    1742370

It'll be interesting to see what ideas come out of Ulster. They feel the most victimised by the current setup though they have a great chance of having 4 All-Ireland quarter-finalists.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7844 - 28/06/2015 09:17:44    1743612

Why would the County Boards need to go outside of the collective proposals we three mousquetaires have made ? :)
I think we covered a wide varied selection - is there any better ?

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2590 - 28/06/2015 18:07:26    1743946

Do we really need to change it? I've watched teams get destroyed in the premier league yet i've never seen someone come out and say there sound be a second tier for the poor sides in the pl. Why do we constantly feel the need to change things?

gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4971 - 28/06/2015 18:12:58    1743952

28/06/2015 18:12:58
gotmilk
County: Fermanagh
Posts: 2111

1743952 Do we really need to change it? I've watched teams get destroyed in the premier league yet i've never seen someone come out and say there sound be a second tier for the poor sides in the pl. Why do we constantly feel the need to change things?


Because there is a second tire, called 'The Championship'. And a third called 'League One', and a fourth called 'League Two', and a...

OgraAnDun (Down) - Posts: 406 - 28/06/2015 18:19:47    1743956

I wouldn't hold out much hope for a radical change to the present system. The old brigade, as referred to by a poster, won't vote to change the existing system which suits them.

thelongridge (Offaly) - Posts: 1741 - 28/06/2015 18:31:13    1743969

28/06/2015 18:12:58 gotmilk
Do we really need to change it? I've watched teams get destroyed in the premier league yet i've never seen someone come out and say there sound be a second tier for the poor sides in the pl. Why do we constantly feel the need to change things? We feel need to change things as the competitions are uneven in their layout, don't help club championships being played, players don't get enough games for what they put in etc etc etc
The premier league in soccer is top tier with relegation from their all the way down the tiers below the conference and below again

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 28/06/2015 18:33:39    1743974

Does the league not already provide a format where teams are segregated by quality to provide competitive fixtures! The championship is like the FA cup where the small timers have a chance of a giant killing! There are 33 teams competing in the championship, there obviously will be one sided results! Weaker counties need to take the league more seriously and try build that way, the championship should only be used as a device to keep players committed! If I was playing for say Waterford I would prefer to tell my kids about the time I played against the Gooch as opposed to beating carlow in a B championship game, also it will be another harder to stop younger players from travelling when they only have a B championship to play for! With regards the provincial, I think they are vital for the development of weaker teams as it gives them a realistic chance of playing on the big stage, just look at London a couple of years ago or sligo and the Westmeston this year! Provincial will always be the proffered way of doing things due to the financial benefits of them! Local rivalries and short distances to travel ensure large crowds! Meath fans will always travel in numbers to play the dubs due to the rivalry they have had in the past but there wouldnt be half as many driveline to an away game against down! The reality is this part of the championship is all based on history and tradition of the competition, changing it offers no real benefits! We will have a couple of competitive provincial finals, couple of competitive quarter finals and from the semis on you have the top teams battling it out where we saw some great games last season! This argument goes on every year, there is no real alternative and very few county boards are going to vote if favour of being relegated to a B championship so.can the issue be dropped and can we look forward to the championship proper kicking in over the coming weeks!

as_ky (Kerry) - Posts: 535 - 28/06/2015 18:41:35    1743978

They won't change anything, one of the biggest problems with the qualifiers is that 4 teams make it to the quarterfinals, it should only be 1 or 2 teams that make it out of the back door system, even though nobody want to go through the back door route if the draw suits you it's sometimes the easiest route, I don't know what proposals should be tried, if we set up a B champ people will say they won't support it as everybody wants a chance to win Sam, maybe the 8 provincial finalists should be in the main draw for Sam 2016, the rest in a B championship with the 2 finalists entering the A champ along with the 8 provincial finalists, I dunno

riverboys (Mayo) - Posts: 1389 - 28/06/2015 18:45:41    1743982

But they also have the FA cup and League cup Ogra. We already have a tiered system. It's called the league.

gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4971 - 28/06/2015 19:11:32    1744013

28/06/2015 18:41:35 as_ky
Does the league not already provide a format where teams are segregated by quality to provide competitive fixtures! The championship is like the FA cup where the small timers have a chance of a giant killing! There are 33 teams competing in the championship, there obviously will be one sided results! Weaker counties need to take the league more seriously and try build that way, the championship should only be used as a device to keep players committed! If I was playing for say Waterford I would prefer to tell my kids about the time I played against the Gooch as opposed to beating carlow in a B championship game, also it will be another harder to stop younger players from travelling when they only have a B championship to play for! With regards the provincial, I think they are vital for the development of weaker teams as it gives them a realistic chance of playing on the big stage, just look at London a couple of years ago or sligo and the Westmeston this year! Provincial will always be the proffered way of doing things due to the financial benefits of them! Local rivalries and short distances to travel ensure large crowds! Meath fans will always travel in numbers to play the dubs due to the rivalry they have had in the past but there wouldnt be half as many driveline to an away game against down! The league is played in its entirety before the championship yet has no direct influence on draw for championship. the whole structure of inter county season is flawed.
You could still keep provincial championships and make a fairer all Ireland style competition...
28/06/2015 18:41:35 as_ky
The reality is this part of the championship is all based on history and tradition of the competition, changing it offers no real benefits! We will have a couple of competitive provincial finals, couple of competitive quarter finals and from the semis on you have the top teams battling it out where we saw some great games last season! This argument goes on every year, there is no real alternative and very few county boards are going to vote if favour of being relegated to a B championship so.can the issue be dropped and can we look forward to the championship proper kicking in over the coming weeks! Changing the championship so counties have same number of games to win all Ireland, so that season is structured better to help more club games(championship games including top county players) be played in summer months.
There is alternatives but those in power are too cowardly to do anything that make big changes
28/06/2015 19:11:32 gotmilk
But they also have the FA cup and League cup Ogra. We already have a tiered system. It's called the league. the league in hurling and gaelic cant be compared to the leagues in soccer/rugby etc considering how teams approach the league in GAA...

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 28/06/2015 19:30:20    1744044

You are kidding Ormo. How do teams approach the league in Gaelic? I am yet to meet a player who steps on to the pitch and doesn't want to win. In the last 15 years the league has been used as the catalyst for a team to propel themselves into the championship.

gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4971 - 28/06/2015 19:46:33    1744067

28/06/2015 19:46:33
gotmilk
You are kidding Ormo. How do teams approach the league in Gaelic? I am yet to meet a player who steps on to the pitch and doesn't want to win. In the last 15 years the league has been used as the catalyst for a team to propel themselves into the championship. Thought people had gone beyond the name calling. Why cant you act like a man and call me by my correct names either Ormond or ormondbannerman
The league is not anywhere near pace of championship and how its ran off doesn't help it...
the league being ran off in its entirety before provincial championships lessens it completely.

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 28/06/2015 20:07:08    1744085

Gotmilk and Ormond (what's wrong with 'Ormo' anyway?), I think you both have decent points. The league is used as a catalyst for the Championship but (and its a fairly crucial but), it's more as a testing ground for systems and players and is not played in the same spirit of championship matches. Some Down fans wanted Kevin McKernan rested for the league final incase he picked up a black and would miss the Derry game - and that was with a cup at stake. I couldn't give a damn if Down got relegated to the bottom of Division Four as long as we were competing for an AI, and until that mentality changes (because I would argue it's the opinion of most supporters), comparisons between our leagues and the leagues of other sports aren't really all that valid. Competing against better teams in the league is a good way of preparing for the championship and nothing more.

OgraAnDun (Down) - Posts: 406 - 28/06/2015 21:53:11    1744211

Why can't you pull your head out of the cloud and accept that on a forum like this people will give you a nickname. Would I be right in saying you are either an only child or the youngest in your house?
Anyway I think you are being disrespectful to the league. I've been to plenty of league games where boys are putting all on the line. You suggest the league is played off as a collection of challenge games.
Name the last time a team performed disasterously in the league yet still competed well in the championship?

gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4971 - 29/06/2015 13:08:28    1744610

Look at Saturdays game of Relegated to Div 4 Wexford and Promoted to Div 1 Down ended up. Upsets do happen in the championship if the 2 tiered system was brought in then that wouldn't have happened.

The League and Provincial warm-up competitions (McKenna etc) are not taken seriously at all. Thats when most teams have trial and error time, College players have a crack at county players giving the managers maybe something to think about. There is bound to be a way of figuring out some sort of system to get rid of the colleges all together and create a more competitive system from Jan-May before the Championship or maybe all season round.

Find_the_space (Tyrone) - Posts: 313 - 29/06/2015 15:04:36    1744747

The Premier League is boring too. It's just that a Pat Spillane type will never get a job working for Sky Sports. Imagine Pat telling Jeff Stelling that he's just wasted 90mins of his life watching West Brom at Leicester on a Saturday afternoon. There wouldn't be any fizz in that. It has to be UNBELIEVABLE JEFF!! The championship structure is good. The imbalance between the top four-six sides and the rest is alarming, and if that gap closed, we'd have a more compelling competition. That's the root of the current 'problem', as I see it.

Pope_Benedict (Galway) - Posts: 3422 - 29/06/2015 15:20:01    1744761

GotMilk what about the champions league then?

That's a tiered cup competition, with the Europa league seen as the lower cup.

Uncle_Fester (Meath) - Posts: 217 - 29/06/2015 15:33:29    1744775

Exactly pope. What good is it to change the structure of the competition? It's not going to make Carlow worldbeaters nor is it going to make Dublin play poor. It's up to indvidual teams to sort it out. Certain people need to realise that teams go in cycles. Never has one side dominated a competition from it's inception.

Yes Kerry and Dublin have been Irelands most succesful teams but both have went through poor periods. Kerry in the late 80s till the mid 90s. Again up until last year they hadn't won an AI for 5 years I think. Think of other sports. Celtics and Lakers have been poor in the NBA the last 5 years, United didn't even make Europe last season, the two Milan clubs are struggling at the minute.

Yes there is a gap between the elite and the rest but give it time, I think teams will eventually catch up with them through progressing themselves and the natural decline of the elite teams.

gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4971 - 29/06/2015 15:33:39    1744776

The Europa league is quite a highly thought of competition uncle fester...

gotmilk (Fermanagh) - Posts: 4971 - 29/06/2015 15:38:16    1744784