I've been saying for years the Munster seeding should be for the finalists and not naming two specific counties. A good ruling came in this year where Munster provincial finalists are given a bye from the quarter-finals but the semi-final draw is an open draw and they could have drawn each other at that stage.

I agree with Leinster seeding semi-finalists to avoid the preliminary round of the following year. The additional step of keeping the semi-finalists apart in the quarter-final draw seems a step too far. Look it's Leinster's own business at the end of the day.

If Ulster had the same seeding system - Monaghan, Armagh, Antrim and Donegal would have been seeded in the quarter-finals and kept apart from each other. While Ulster possibly at least should seed provincial semi-finalists by giving them a bye from the preliminary round, Leinster are going a step too far. As I say, it's up to the Leinster counties at the end of the day.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7844 - 26/05/2015 21:33:23    1728868

Don't think there should b any seeding at all.

Donegal_Man (Donegal) - Posts: 37 - 26/05/2015 21:42:00    1728872

Good idea to me.It rewards the teams who do well in the provincial championships and avoids the potential of a completely one sided draw like in Ulster this year or what happens in Connacht some years.

uibhfhaili1986 (Offaly) - Posts: 1296 - 26/05/2015 21:57:20    1728885

The biggest game ever in the Leinster championship was a first round match between Dublin and Meath with a few replays thrown in. No Leinster final has ever matched it. Open draw all the way, or at the very least open from q finals onwards.

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1109 - 27/05/2015 08:27:58    1728890

Is it fair? Not sure, the greatest Leinster of all time had Meath and dub in a first round match.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 27/05/2015 08:29:14    1728891

Scrap the seedings. Nearly the same four teams are in the semies every year.

OLLIE (Louth) - Posts: 12224 - 27/05/2015 08:41:13    1728894

I am not 100% sure but I think a very strong Wicklow team who had reached the League Quarter Finals and backboned by the All Ireland winning Baltinglass club took Meath to a replay? Also Meath had it tough against Laois in the final. Kildare had also reached the League final that year. Leinster football a long way off those heady days....

sportsfan14 (USA) - Posts: 281 - 27/05/2015 09:21:33    1728905

OLLIE
Scrap the seedings. Nearly the same four teams are in the semies every year.

i.e. the best 4 teams in the province.

Seeding is a good thing. Id seed the finalists from the previous year in every championship. It is actually the fairest way. Everyone just wants there to be a lob-sided draw and then get drawn on the other side. But what about the weaker team that gets drawn on the tough side? Are they getting the same treatment as the guys on the other side? Of course not. It is totally self-serving. What would be fair is that if a team are good enough to get into the final 4, then they themselves need to be able to displace one of the 4 from the previous year, not get someone else to do it for them. If you want o get to a final, you need to be earning it, not looking to sneak in under the radar.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 27/05/2015 11:09:10    1728944

Seeding is a waste of time, you have to cap the money that is spent in every county on their senior team. You can't have 1 county spending thousands and another a few hundred, can somebody explain how Dublin are so strong while Meath, Louth, Wicklow and Kildare are average to weak, it isn't work related as there isn't much of travel distances to and from Dublin to their homes in the commuter belt, so it has to be money that is generated and spent. We should have a very strong Leinster championship with majority of counties being equal maybe apart from those further away from Dublin where their players stay in Dublin during the week working. The GAA won't take a blinds bit of notice because Dublin and then Kerry in Munster are strong. Remember years ago when we were told the GAA is in crisis because Dublin weren't strong and weren't winning Leinster or AllIrelands, this isn't just a Leinster problem but countrywide, we have the same in Mayo, thousands on the football team and very little for hurling. I have no problem and will welcome massive amounts of money being spent on underage football and hurling, it is the future of our games

riverboys (Mayo) - Posts: 1389 - 27/05/2015 11:23:31    1728954

It will never happen but id love to see the provinces played and then and open 34 team draw for the AI. Give teams who have never played a chance to play each other, no seeds just an open draw. Every game would be a do or die

DoireCityFC (Derry) - Posts: 1580 - 27/05/2015 11:25:53    1728956

Well said riverboys

DoireCityFC (Derry) - Posts: 1580 - 27/05/2015 11:46:23    1728968

Riverboys, what has money got to do with seeding? I agree there should be a cap on spending, although a flat rate would be unfair as some counties have more fixed costs than others. But that has got little relevance to the pros and cons of seeding a draw. Even if everything was equal, some counties would be better than others to some degree by simply having better players and a stronger football culture.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 27/05/2015 12:02:11    1728976

TheMaster
County: Mayo
Posts: 13169

1728944 OLLIE
Scrap the seedings. Nearly the same four teams are in the semies every year.

i.e. the best 4 teams in the province.

Seeding is a good thing. Id seed the finalists from the previous year in every championship. It is actually the fairest way. Everyone just wants there to be a lob-sided draw and then get drawn on the other side. But what about the weaker team that gets drawn on the tough side? Are they getting the same treatment as the guys on the other side? Of course not. It is totally self-serving. What would be fair is that if a team are good enough to get into the final 4, then they themselves need to be able to displace one of the 4 from the previous year, not get someone else to do it for them. If you want o get to a final, you need to be earning it, not looking to sneak in under the radar.

Since 2012 the semi-finalists in Leinster have been Dublin, Meath, Wexford and Westmeath. Your better off scraping the seedings. In that time Louth have played Westmeath three times in the first round. In 1991 they scrapped it and in the first round you had the four game thriller between the Dubs and Meath. You might have a lobsided draw but then it gives an advantage to a weaker team to get to the final.

OLLIE (Louth) - Posts: 12224 - 27/05/2015 15:45:35    1729158

27/05/2015 11:25:53
DoireCityFC
County: Derry

It will never happen but id love to see the provinces played and then and open 34 team draw for the AI. Give teams who have never played a chance to play each other, no seeds just an open draw. Every game would be a do or die

The nearest to an open draw I can see happening is a Round of 16:
1. Provincial Preliminary Rounds
2. Provincial Quarter-finals
3. Provincial Semi-finals & Qualifier Round 1
4. Provincial Finals & Qualifier Round 2
5. All-Ireland Round of 16*
6. All-Ireland Quarter-finals
7. All-Ireland Semi-finals
8. All-Ireland Final

* Provincial winners drawn at home to a qualifier county (lowest 4 of the 8 qualifiers based on league placing).
* Provincial runners-up drawn against a qualifier county (highest 4 of the 8 qualifiers based on league placing), with a separate draw to determine the home team.

Two qualifier rounds run smoothly in parallel to the provincial semi-finals and finals. I've fierce sympathy for the likes of Tyrone, Cavan, the loser of Derry v Down and the loser of Donegal v Armagh. 4 qualifier rounds are a bit much in fairness. Bringing in a Round of 16 in place of Qualifier rounds 3 and 4 brings a more fluent championship structure. Provincial winners are still being rewarded by provision of a home game and being drawn against the lower seeded qualifiers.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7844 - 27/05/2015 20:01:11    1729256

riverboys
County: Mayo
Posts: 274

1728954 can somebody explain how Dublin are so strong while Meath, Louth, Wicklow and Kildare are average to weak, it isn't work related as there isn't much of travel distances to and from Dublin to their homes in the commuter belt, so it has to be money that is generated and spent. We should have a very strong Leinster championship with majority of counties being equal maybe apart from those further away from Dublin where their players stay in Dublin during the week working. The GAA won't take a blinds bit of notice because Dublin and then Kerry in Munster are strong. Remember years ago when we were told the GAA is in crisis because Dublin weren't strong and weren't winning Leinster or AllIrelands, this isn't just a Leinster problem but countrywide, we have the same in Mayo, thousands on the football team and very little for hurling. I have no problem and will welcome massive amounts of money being spent on underage football and hurling, it is the future of our games

Firstly,I think you answered your own question there without meaning too. The reason Dublin are relatively strong compared to the other counties you name is that they have invested heavily in underage football and hurling over the last 10 or 15 years, not on infrastructure such as centres of excellence or on high profile management teams for their senior county teams.
As for the seeding of teams in Leinster, I could understand why the concept was introduced, to reward teams that reached the previous years semis. However, as has been stated in recent years those 4 teams haven't really changed so perhaps its time to revert to an open draw again.

AHP (Dublin) - Posts: 323 - 28/05/2015 10:15:54    1729344

I'd get rid of all seedings. It just goes towards keeping the stronger counties strong and makes it harder for a weaker county to make a break through & go on a run.

beffs (Dublin) - Posts: 18 - 28/05/2015 15:45:33    1729564

I agree - 4 byes to Open Draw Lein QFs would be better.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2590 - 28/05/2015 21:37:49    1729748

OLLIE
Since 2012 the semi-finalists in Leinster have been Dublin, Meath, Wexford and Westmeath. Your better off scraping the seedings. In that time Louth have played Westmeath three times in the first round. In 1991 they scrapped it and in the first round you had the four game thriller between the Dubs and Meath. You might have a lobsided draw but then it gives an advantage to a weaker team to get to the final.

So what you are saying is, on average since 2012, westmeath have been better than louth, and have more semi final appearances than them... Isnt that how knockout competitions are supposed to work? I mean if man utd cant beat Barcelona, do they ask for the draw to be rigged so they don't have to play them? It's ridiculous. If Westmeath are consistently better than louth, then why shouldnt they be in the last 4 ahead of louth?
It might give an advantage to one weaker team, but what about the actual second best team who all things being equal, deserve that final spot? How about all the work they have put in, only to be shafted in the draw? How about for example if louth got drawn on the same side as meath, wexford, Dublin and Westmeath, with Longford on the other side? It couldn't be any less fair on louth in comparison to Longford in that instance, so how does it make it better?
If you want to get into the last 4 teams in the province, then be one of the 4 best teams in the province. Don't be hoping a dodgey draw does the work for you. What good is it going to do anyway? Look at London in Connacht, soft draw into the final, annihilated in a no-contest. How was that a positive for them? It is a completely flawed way of thinking.

TheMaster (Mayo) - Posts: 16187 - 29/05/2015 09:33:04    1729787

Leinster semi-finals and finals are scheduled for Croke Park. That's fair enough. It'll be interesting to see the capital play outside of the Dublin Region every second time they are drawn against a county prior to the semi-finals.

Bringing the capital outside of the Dublin area isn't going to rejuvenate the Leinster Championship on it's own. This year's Leinster Championship saw last year's semi-finalists seeded to both have a bye from the preliminary round and also be kept apart in the quarter-final draw. I don't agree with that seeding. I didn't agree with in Munster either and it is now a postive that our provincial finalists receive a bye from the quarter-finals but can be drawn against each other in the semi-finals.

Dublin, Wexford, Kildare and Meath were seeded to be kept apart in the quarter-final draw. In my opinion the quarter-final draw should have been an open draw. An open quarter-final draw could have resulted in the following example:

Round 1:
Offaly v Longford ... Longford won
Laois v Carlow ... Laois won
Louth v Westmeath ... Westmeath won

Quarter-finals:
Dublin Region v Kildare
Wexford v Meath
Longford v Laois
Westmeath v Wicklow

Semi-finals:
Dublin Region/Kildare v Wexford/Meath
Longford/Laois v Westmeath/Wicklow

Now Leinster's business is Leinster's business at the end of the day. I just can't see how the seeded draw is benefitting the province as a whole. I imagine all 12 counties have a vote at provincial level? Have the respective county boards any interest at all in developing the game within their respective counties?

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7844 - 30/05/2015 13:14:26    1730210

The Master

First of all this is not soccer. Its GAA. Its like comparing apples to oranges. Louths first round opponents: 2012- Westmeath, 2013 - Laois, 2014 - Westmeath and 2015 - Westmeath. Its getting boring at this stage playing the same team the whole time. Could you imagine a first round open draw with the Dubs playing Meath? It would be a great way to open up the Leinster championship.

OLLIE (Louth) - Posts: 12224 - 30/05/2015 14:01:17    1730221