Following on from Setanta last night what rule changes do you think would help Gaelic Football. My suggestions would be...

- 13 a side.
- Only score from a free off the ground.
- No points by handpass.
- Get rid of all cards except a 20 minute sin bin.
- Time keeping by hooter... so no advantage in time wasting.
- Keeper not allowed handpass

tyroneed (Tyrone) - Posts: 753 - 12/03/2015 17:54:17    1702101

Of the top of my head.

13 a side.
No hand pass scores.
On any catch from a kick out passing 45m the player be given time to play the ball before he can be tackled 1-2 seconds.
The black card to be 10 minute sin bin with no replacement.

Armaghball (Armagh) - Posts: 96 - 12/03/2015 18:28:03    1702114

13 a side I dont think is a good idea. Say for example the Dublin SFC championship if I am correct has 32 teams 2 players per team means 64 club players that are missing out, the same could be applied to county football 33 teams 66 players missing out its quite a big amount of players missing out on football.

Free Kicks and time they are taking needs looked at, Niall Morgan took a minute to get up and strike the last free against Dublin and ref didnt add on time for some reason this needs to be looked

Hand passes must go forward or across kicking is allowed in any direction I feel could potentially be a good rule

cunday9lu (Louth) - Posts: 175 - 12/03/2015 20:56:00    1702157

I'd like to see no more than 2 players allowed tackle another as in not allowing 3/4 guys surrounding the man with the ball, also the mark for kick outs caught clean beyond the 45 and the defenders having to retreat back which would allow the catcher the option of playing on. I'd also like to limit the amount of players in their own half but it could prove difficult to police. Finally the black card extended to pulling someone back as the run towards goal

lillyboy (Kildare) - Posts: 429 - 13/03/2015 09:59:25    1702226

Eugene McGee had a decent article in yesterday's paper about the state of the game but one of the things he mentioned was there can be no further rule changes until 2020s congress. So while some ideas here may be worth considering, we won't be seeing any of them implemented any day soon.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 13/03/2015 10:35:58    1702235

The game is fine the way it is, leave it alone....

cacsmckilly (Tyrone) - Posts: 1294 - 13/03/2015 10:44:24    1702237

Rule changes can be both subtle and extremely effective. After the defensive quagmire of Italia 90, soccer became more attacking and open due to 3 small changes (ban on tackle from behind, no backpass to goalkeeper, and offside rule amended to include 'not interfering with play'). American Football changed from a run-first league to a pass-first league by only permitting defenders to put hands on receivers in the first 5 yards (as opposed to right down the field), and also by outlawing hits on defensless receivers. In tennis, Wimbledon changed from a serve/volley tournament in the 80s/90s to one that is now dominated by baseliners and rallies. They did this simply by decreasing the pressure in the balls, thus slowing the game down slightly.

So, what I'd be saying is that the most important thing we need to do is establish what we change we are trying to effect, and only then do you tweak the rules to give you the desired effect.

For instance, I'd be keen to create more space on the field for skillful players. It might be possible to do this by increasing intercounty games to 80 minutes, while reducing substitutions from 6 to 4. My thinking behind this is that, aside from the increased value for money for spectators, players will not be able to spend as much energy running up and down the field if they have to run for 10 minutes (14%) longer, especially if most of them won't be able to be replaced by subs. A by-product of this could be increased use of the kick pass, making the ball do more work instead of running.

Another way to create more space would be to insist on a minimum number of players inside the opposition 45/65 at all times. That would go a long way to reducing congestion faced by the attacking side.

As I say, those ideas would relate to creating space, as space allows creative players to shine. Other people may prioritise other things, and adjust other rules accordingly, but the important thing is to arrive at a vision of what we want our game to look like, and only then start to make some (hopefully very small) adjustments to promote that change.

Thomas Clarke (Tyrone) - Posts: 1002 - 13/03/2015 10:44:51    1702238

Leave well enough alone - we have a perverse inclination to constantly tinker with rules why not leave well enough alone and if the need arises to address any issue then for 1 or 2 years implement into the schools system and see how it works besides constantly chopping and changing the senior playing structure.

Horsebox77 (Kerry) - Posts: 5491 - 13/03/2015 10:45:14    1702239

Too many rule changes already in the last number of years and not necessary for the good of the game. Rather than calling for changes its up to managers to come up with ways round the ultra defensive approach many teams now take. Gone are the days when teams line out 1-15 and retain their positions throughout the 60/70 minutes. I watched a County Championship game last year where one of the teams is well known for adopting the defensive approach where they had the majority of their players inside the 45 - the other team were obviously aware of this and had been working on it because what they did was they had 2 or 3 of their players who were well able to kick points from 40-50m and they positioned them in this zone of the field when attacking. When they got the ball up to the wall of players they just laid it back and one of the players in question popped it over the bar. Was simple and effective and they won the game. Now, I'm not saying this is the blueprint to get around defensive teams but just highlighting it as an example where a bit of craft can reap the rewards.

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 13/03/2015 11:26:17    1702254

just get referees to implement the current rules.. that would be a start.

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5518 - 13/03/2015 12:14:31    1702274

Well said Horsebox77, just enforce the rules we already have as a starter.

brendtheredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 10897 - 13/03/2015 12:48:01    1702290

This thread ties in more or less with the direction of the 'bad referees' thread that is also going on. In fairness to referees they do have a tough job and with the fitness levels of players it is almost impossible to keep up for 70 minutes+.
For me the rules that I think should be looked at would be
1) A 10 minute sin bin instead of replacing the player for a black card.-- As it stands replacing the player punishes weaker counties or counties with small panels much more that the big counties such as Dublin. If we were to lose a half back to a black at the moment he could be replaced by the likes of Kevin Nolan, Ger Brennan or Nicky Devereaux to name just a few, whereas if we lost a player for 10 minutes it would/could change the entire course of the game. Counties with smaller squads might not have that type of cover available.

2) Adapt the hooter/countdown clock for timekeeping.-- This works well in the ladies game and simply means that the referee couldn't come under the same type of pressure at the end of games to 'even things up', especially if one team is ahead as a result of a contentious decision. I know some detractors reckon it could lead to teams trying to run down the clock at the end of games, but this happens already, at least this way everybody in the ground would know what time is left to be run down.

On top of this I think the most important advance that could be made in the game is to actively involve the linesmen in officiating the game via headsets or whatever system is best suited to the game. To expect one man to cover 30 players on pitches as big as we use is unfair. On top of that its time to use only qualified referees as umpires in big matches. If they need additional special training then so be it, but the game, especially at the top level is too big and important to be decided on the call of unqualified officials.

AHP (Dublin) - Posts: 323 - 13/03/2015 13:16:50    1702303

cacsmckilly
County: Tyrone
Posts: 1010

The game is fine the way it is, leave it alone....
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The game is not fine the way it is. Any sport whose rules encourage and reward ultra-defensive and boring tactics such as those employed by the vast majority of interounty sides is not fine.

And I disagree with the poster who says that it is up to managers to counteract the problem. Yes, it would be admirable if they would, but I understand the pressures of results in sport, which means that most managers will adopt the approach that most easily makes them competitive, meaning that it is up to the administrators to make changes that will encourage attacking play and punish defensive play.

To those saying that the solution is to get referees to enforce the rules that are already there, I'd say that you should be careful what you wish for. No team sport is referreed to the letter of the law, as it would probably be unwatchable. Do we really eant to hear a whistle everytime someone carries the ball >4 steps? Are we going to award a free kick for every jersey pull or hand on a back? If the black card rule was properly administered, we'd end up with games more closely resembling 7-a-side tournaments.

Gaelic football is a brilliant game, but fitness levels, technological advances, preparation, increased pressure for success and improved tactical awareness have outstripped some of the rules, leading to the defensive slugfests that we now see week in and week out. I really don't think a major overhaul is needed, but we must think seriously about what small changes we can make to improve it as a product.

Thomas Clarke (Tyrone) - Posts: 1002 - 13/03/2015 14:47:03    1702338

And I disagree with the poster who says that it is up to managers to counteract the problem. Yes, it would be admirable if they would, but I understand the pressures of results in sport, which means that most managers will adopt the approach that most easily makes them competitive, meaning that it is up to the administrators to make changes that will encourage attacking play and punish defensive play.

Thomas - I gave an example of how a manager obviously did use his head and came up with a successful strategy which meant the won and progressed to the next round of the Championship. Why can't other managers do this - maybe thats an indication of the capabilities of the manager (or lack of) if they can't counter them or feel their best chance is to try and adopt the same strategy. In my opinion chaning the rules to try and counter is just a cop out.

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 13/03/2015 15:06:43    1702350

Offside_Rule
County: Antrim
Posts: 2036

Thomas - I gave an example of how a manager obviously did use his head and came up with a successful strategy which meant the won and progressed to the next round of the Championship. Why can't other managers do this - maybe thats an indication of the capabilities of the manager (or lack of) if they can't counter them or feel their best chance is to try and adopt the same strategy. In my opinion chaning the rules to try and counter is just a cop out.
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Kicking long range points is not a viable option for most sides. Even Dublin were unable to make it work last year against Donegal, and that was with Flynn and Connolly on fire for the first 20 minutes. I don't see your example as one of a manager using his head. Instead, it sounds more like a potshots getting lucky and sailing over when, on another day, most kicks from outside the 45, especially if under any sort of pressure, will go wide. If it were that simple, I'm certain that packed defenses would have become discredited and wiped out long ago.

Thomas Clarke (Tyrone) - Posts: 1002 - 13/03/2015 15:20:02    1702356

just get referees to implement the current rules.. that would be a start.

Agree with ya there however will the Appeals Committees etc and the public give them the backing - will managers and players keep their mouths shut and learn the rules?

A zero tolerance policy to the rules and the game becomes so much better

zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 1804 - 13/03/2015 15:39:26    1702358

Kicking long range points is not a viable option for most sides. Even Dublin were unable to make it work last year against Donegal, and that was with Flynn and Connolly on fire for the first 20 minutes. I don't see your example as one of a manager using his head. Instead, it sounds more like a potshots getting lucky and sailing over when, on another day, most kicks from outside the 45, especially if under any sort of pressure, will go wide. If it were that simple, I'm certain that packed defenses would have become discredited and wiped out long ago.

Again, that was one example and I said it wasn't a blueprint for the answer to all situations - they weren't potshots either by the by, they worked the ball up to the packed defence then laid it back to the player who had found the space (which wasn't that hard given most of the players were inside the 45) within his scoring zone and sailed it over. Also, I am sorry, but if you don't have players who are capable of kicking a ball over the bar from 45 metres (especially at Intercounty level) then I despair. Maybe its something those teams who can't kick it from this range need to work on instead of trying to work the ball up to the 21 to take a shot.

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 13/03/2015 15:43:33    1702360

Offside_Rule
County: Antrim
Posts: 2037

Again, that was one example and I said it wasn't a blueprint for the answer to all situations - they weren't potshots either by the by, they worked the ball up to the packed defence then laid it back to the player who had found the space (which wasn't that hard given most of the players were inside the 45) within his scoring zone and sailed it over. Also, I am sorry, but if you don't have players who are capable of kicking a ball over the bar from 45 metres (especially at Intercounty level) then I despair. Maybe its something those teams who can't kick it from this range need to work on instead of trying to work the ball up to the 21 to take a shot.
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Despair you may, but there isn't a county side in Ireland who regularly score points from outside the 45, and I can't imagine that many club sides could pull off that feat regularly either. This is Pat Spillane's favourite hobby horse, and he does hold it up as the 'blueprint to beat the blanket' anytime he sees a side convert a couple of big points in a row. Unfortunately, as more often happens, when these type of efforts go wide or fall short, he accuses teams of being wasteful and running out of ideas. To be fair to Joe Brolly, he said at half-time of Dublin/Donegal that there was no way Dublin would continue to score so many long range points, as the law of averages is against it. That strategy was working for a while, but it wasn't likely to work in the long run.

I'm not disputing that you saw it work on that occasion, or that there are other strategies that can unpick packde defences at certain times. The point I'm making is that the current rules make it too tempting to pull players back and grind out results, when they should actually be encouraging teams to attack. The odds of winning should always be greater if you play with adventure and positivity but, in our game, they aren't.

Thomas Clarke (Tyrone) - Posts: 1002 - 13/03/2015 16:01:24    1702371

And I disagree with the poster who says that it is up to managers to counteract the problem. Yes, it would be admirable if they would, but I understand the pressures of results in sport, which means that most managers will adopt the approach that most easily makes them competitive, meaning that it is up to the administrators to make changes that will encourage attacking play and punish defensive play.

The thing about the 'blanket' approach is that while it undoubtedly makes teams competitive, it doesn't automatically signal success.
Over the last 4 years during which the blanket has come to the fore only 1 of the 8 national trophies available has gone to an out and out blanket team. Even last years semi which is held up as the proof that the blanket will overcome all doesn't really ring true, Dublin scored 17 times that day, they were beaten, and deservedly so, before anyone accuses me of sour grapes, by a team with an excellent strategy for attacking Dublin and opening up our defence.
I do agree that currently negative play frequently goes unpunished, but the rules that exist should be sufficient to deal with this if they are applied properly, instead of trying to add another layer of rules to further confuse matters.

AHP (Dublin) - Posts: 323 - 13/03/2015 16:59:13    1702378

Despair you may, but there isn't a county side in Ireland who regularly score points from outside the 45, and I can't imagine that many club sides could pull off that feat regularly either.

Well therein maybe lies the problem - its like anything, if you practice at it you get good at it. I played midfield most of my playing career and I can honestly say that the majority of my points came from the 45 or beyond. How did I get good at it - by spending any free time I had grabbing one of the brothers, heading up to the pitch and hitting ball after ball and not allowing myself to step inside the 45. Nowadays it seems that nobody is prepared to either put in the effort on their own or haven't the confidence and you see teams trying to walk the ball in to the net. To say that teams aren't capable do it is folly.

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 4058 - 13/03/2015 17:45:56    1702383