I know , Groan! Another of these threads .

Here's what I'd like to see .

Get rid of the back door - straight knockout . Run it from July to September (Get club championships up and running in May/June to finish in September) or run it June to August with club championships run either side of this window . Leave league more or less as it is but get rid of the finals format .

Split the provinces up into 4 of 8 teams . Counties would rotate provinces , so if you play outside your province this year you go back into your home province next year .
The other stipulation would be , if you win your province this year you MUST play in a different province next year . Would ensure the cups go to different counties each year and would rejuvenate the provincial system . Would also ensure that no county could be accused of always getting an "easy run" to the semi finals .

Hardtimes (Cavan) - Posts: 1056 - 16/01/2015 13:41:22    1683854

Nice idea, but it will never work. Dublin would never play in connaught, nor munster let alone ulster. Likewise, try to get an ulster team or a munster team to play in each others respective provinces. Too big a distance and attendances would drop. I think that there is a lot of sense in the idea of a 32 county draw, scrapping the provincial competition or running it as a separate one as a curtain raiser to a knock out championship.

I dont think this is likely to happen either, the GAA are very slow to change something that is likely to affect the number of games played in a seaoson and hence attendances and gates.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 16/01/2015 14:41:29    1683876

The Champions League style format is the best idea I have seen

ziggy320001 (Meath) - Posts: 2432 - 16/01/2015 15:13:31    1683894

ziggy320001

The Champions League style format is the best idea I have seen

I nearly agree with you ziggy, I think the World Cup format (3 group games instead of 6) is more practical and would result in far less meaningless games, also I think that either the CL or WC formats are the only credible alternatives to the current format.

Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 16/01/2015 15:18:41    1683898

Problem with a Champions League format is too many counties will have nothing to play for and this combined with greater travel distances would mean you would have a lot of games with low attendances . More games would mean more fixtures congestion and would kill the club scene .
Donegalman , you say the idea would not work due to greater travel distances but then you advocate an open 32 county draw which would mean even greater travel distances for all? (or maybe I picked you up wrong) . With the above idea only a few counties would have to travel far for first round games and then , for next year , they'd be back in their own province . Would give more counties a more realistic chance for meaningful silverware as well . Teams would go hell for leather in the championship .
Regarding teams not wanting to travel - I'm not so sure . I'm sure there are some Dublin fans around would relish a first round match against Kerry in Killarney and a chance at a Munster title . Or Tyrone in Omagh for that matter .

Hardtimes (Cavan) - Posts: 1056 - 16/01/2015 16:11:58    1683917

Ok hardtimes, I seem to have contradicted myself there a bit. I dont know if a 32 county draw would capture the imagination either if there would be travel and the inevitable meaningless fixture at the last day between 2 teams with nothing to play for. If it were straight knock out, in a neutral venue for rounds 1 and 2 it could work. It would mean that the GAA would lose on the back door games, which have gated them an enormous amount of revenue over the years.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 16/01/2015 16:50:18    1683927

Would be straight knockout all the way Donegalman as Championship should be . There would be less games alright but if you listen to the suits they will tell you they don't make money on a lot of the back door games anyway ! Less games would free up more time for our amateur sports people as well or maybe all this player welfare talk is just that , talk . Less games would increase attendances at the games as well as there is no second chance and you might not see your team again . Would be easier on peoples pockets as well if there are less games overall and they would be more willing to go out and see what games are on . Less games and a more symmetric provincial system would mean proper games scheduling where you could have designated weekends for inter county only . Club players would then have a better idea of when their league and championship games were on and God forbid , could actually plan for their summer holidays in January/February .
Teams would have more chance of silverware as well . More counties would see themselves in contention for provincial honours and as for the race for Sam , I think the number of teams with a realistic chance of winning Sam would increase from the current big 3/4 . You could have possibly 6/7 teams capable of winning Sam if the draw was favourable and some of the big guns got knocked out by each other early on .

Hardtimes (Cavan) - Posts: 1056 - 16/01/2015 17:48:28    1683943

Hardtimes

Would be straight knockout all the way Donegalman as Championship should be .

I don't think that's a very fair system to be honest Hardtimes, most inter county players are hugely committed these days and put in enormous efforts especially considering they're amateurs and I think facing the prospect of having your summer ended after only 1 game is pretty demoralizing. The world cup format would ensure 3 games for every team and attendances shouldn't suffer because most of those games would be crucial, with the odd final day exception.

Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 16/01/2015 18:13:02    1683950

Not being flippant Htaem but my answer to that is don't get knocked out . Players still play with their clubs and would have plenty of football for the summer . There are plenty of good teams get knocked out early anyway as it is with our lob sided system . And plenty of very good dedicated players get knocked out early by being from a weaker county . There's no perfect system but Championship should be Championship .

Hardtimes (Cavan) - Posts: 1056 - 16/01/2015 18:36:06    1683954

I'd also go for champions league style format , just think the more games a so called weaker team gets against the stronger teams the better.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 16/01/2015 20:05:22    1683968

All Ireland SFC Format 16/01/2015 13:41:22 Hardtimes
I know , Groan! Another of these threads. Here's what I'd like to see.
Get rid of the back door - straight knockout. Run it from July to September (Get club championships up and running in May/June to finish in September) or run it June to August with club championships run either side of this window. Leave league more or less as it is but get rid of the finals format.
Split the provinces up into 4 of 8 teams. Counties would rotate provinces, so if you play outside your province this year you go back into your home province next year.
The other stipulation would be, if you win your province this year you MUST play in a different province next year. Would ensure the cups go to different counties each year and would rejuvenate the provincial system. Would also ensure that no county could be accused of always getting an "easy run" to the semi finals.Have to say I disagree with all that. Counties need more games than having straight knock out. The fans want more games and don't want straight knock out and GAA needs more games for finance etc and by lowering the number of games reduces the profile of the GAA in times of increased competition from other sports. Counties rotating province isn't a runner as there is no history etc and you lose out on winning your own province.
16/01/2015 16:11:58 Hardtimes
Regarding teams not wanting to travel - I'm not so sure . I'm sure there are some Dublin fans around would relish a first round match against Kerry in Killarney and a chance at a Munster title. Or Tyrone in Omagh for that matter. Why would Dublin players/fans want to win a Munster title?
16/01/2015 16:50:18 Donegalman
Ok hardtimes, I seem to have contradicted myself there a bit. I dont know if a 32 county draw would capture the imagination either if there would be travel and the inevitable meaningless fixture at the last day between 2 teams with nothing to play for. If it were straight knock out, in a neutral venue for rounds 1 and 2 it could work. It would mean that the GAA would lose on the back door games, which have gated them an enormous amount of revenue over the years. Why the obsession with a few potential meaningless games? Heineken Cup/Champions Cup in rugby has a group stage, teams play 6 games each side home and away and while there is a few meaningless games in final rounds most games are not. Why not try something like that?

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 16/01/2015 20:14:58    1683973

16/01/2015 17:48:28 Hardtimes
Would be straight knockout all the way Donegalman as Championship should be. There would be less games alright but if you listen to the suits they will tell you they don't make money on a lot of the back door games anyway! Less games would free up more time for our amateur sports people as well or maybe all this player welfare talk is just that, talk. Less games would increase attendances at the games as well as there is no second chance and you might not see your team again. Would be easier on peoples pockets as well if there are less games overall and they would be more willing to go out and see what games are on. Less games and a more symmetric provincial system would mean proper games scheduling where you could have designated weekends for inter county only. Club players would then have a better idea of when their league and championship games were on and God forbid, could actually plan for their summer holidays in January/February.
Teams would have more chance of silverware as well. More counties would see themselves in contention for provincial honours and as for the race for Sam, I think the number of teams with a realistic chance of winning Sam would increase from the current big 3/4. You could have possibly 6/7 teams capable of winning Sam if the draw was favourable and some of the big guns got knocked out by each other early on. The championship shouldn't have to be straight knockout. No reason why it should have to be.
Over training is a bigger issue than over playing of games. Will having less games really change that?
16/01/2015 18:36:06 Hardtimes
Not being flippant Htaem but my answer to that is don't get knocked out. Players still play with their clubs and would have plenty of football for the summer. There are plenty of good teams get knocked out early anyway as it is with our lob sided system. And plenty of very good dedicated players get knocked out early by being from a weaker county. There's no perfect system but Championship should be Championship.They are getting knocked out though and the huge hours the players put in is primarily at inter county level. The system is lob sided but your proposal while evens things out one way it doesn't make things better. You say "Championahip should be Championship" but what does that mean?

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 16/01/2015 20:16:40    1683975

The club scene and welfare of the club player must be addressed , this is the real barbarian banging at the gate , and a more congested inter county schedule with even more games is not the answer . We're going to lose players !
I always cringe when I hear the term Champions League as well implying that's it's some sort of superior league . It means nothing , the Champions League itself is not even a Champions League - it's just a league and they let anyone in ! 70% of the games are crap if you actually watch . We shouldn't be seduced by jazzed up terms . Call it what you want , you can call it the Super Duper Masters of the Universe Series of Gaelic Football , but in essence what you want to do is change the Championship into another League , an even less meaningful league where there is only one piece of silverware , where half the teams are on a hiding to nothing , and a more convoluted fixtures list where club players will be pushed down the priority list even further . No thanks !

Hardtimes (Cavan) - Posts: 1056 - 16/01/2015 20:26:22    1683981

Ormondbannerman , GAA is not professional rugby . It's an amateur sport with a club scene . Players don't belong solely to a county , they have clubs as well . You cannot compare the two , doesn't work like that . The club scene has to be looked after as well , this is the life blood of the sport ? You speak like the club scene doesn't exist .
Championship is Championship , straight knockout competition . You get one chance and if you lose you're out . Not a unique concept , other sports have them .
If you want more high profile inter county games and more exposure then I don't know how that works but can't work under the inter county amateur flag . If there is a genuine market for this then the GAA would have to look at a smaller number of pro/semi pro teams not county affiliated but I don't think it would be sustainable .

Hardtimes (Cavan) - Posts: 1056 - 16/01/2015 20:50:52    1683984

ormondbannerman
County: Clare
Posts: 9080

Why would Dublin players/fans want to win a Munster title?

Why would Galway hurlers/fans want to beat Kilkenny for a Leinster title ?

Hardtimes (Cavan) - Posts: 1056 - 16/01/2015 20:55:32    1683986

Reading this and other threads on the topic the only thing that is clear is that there's no consensous on what everyone is trying to achieve. Untill its clear where we want to go we'l never get there.

lillyboy (Kildare) - Posts: 429 - 17/01/2015 16:07:31    1684064

Ormond is totally correct about what he said earlier. The GAA needs counties to be playing more games, not less. Straight knockout is a no go. End of story.
How can you expect to build up a support base within a county when most of them will only play one game a year?
If I had my way counties would be out week after week for about 5 months during the Summer, playing league and championship. thats about 20 games a year. better for players and supporters, and promotion. Its a no brainer.

joncarter (Galway) - Posts: 2692 - 17/01/2015 16:16:47    1684069

Hardtimes, what has amateurism got to do with it? GAA players would easily be able to fit more games into their schedule. It would simply involve managers scaling back on the amount of training sessions. Players would love that Id say.
Ill say it again. Game after game after game during the summer ( April til the end of August). The rest of the year for club action.

joncarter (Galway) - Posts: 2692 - 17/01/2015 16:26:19    1684072

16/01/2015 20:26:22 Hardtimes
The club scene and welfare of the club player must be addressed, this is the real barbarian banging at the gate, and a more congested inter county schedule with even more games is not the answer. We're going to lose players!
I always cringe when I hear the term Champions League as well implying that's it's some sort of superior league. It means nothing, the Champions League itself is not even a Champions League - it's just a league and they let anyone in! 70% of the games are crap if you actually watch. We shouldn't be seduced by jazzed up terms. Call it what you want, you can call it the Super Duper Masters of the Universe Series of Gaelic Football, but in essence what you want to do is change the Championship into another League, an even less meaningful league where there is only one piece of silverware, where half the teams are on a hiding to nothing , and a more convoluted fixtures list where club players will be pushed down the priority list even further. No thanks! The club scene and player welfare does need to be addressed. The term champions league is used as its just simply a format that should be looked at. Teams all start on equal basis. Get same amount of games and have same number of games if they want to win
Too many counties with the way the season is structured use the league to build for the championship so giving more games In the main competition which receives the most attention is needed

ormondbannerman (Clare) - Posts: 13473 - 17/01/2015 16:57:42    1684077

The FRC 4x8 proposal would make if fair, in that all 32 retains two chances, once the symmetry is established. To achieve thix of course, 4 teams will get a 3rd chance overall, but I think this is ok - two chances for all should be granted once the structure is balanced. Howver, instead of 4 counties getting the 2nd of 3 chances in another provinces, why npt do it via the 1sr rd Qualifiers ? Why not have 16 losers from prov sfs and Qual rd 1 entering Qual rd 2 ? Have 4 prov losing finalists join the 16 Qual winners from rds 1 or 2 in a 20-team rd 3, and have the 4 prov champs playoff - 2losers to rd 4 and only the 2 unbeaten prov champs getting "front door" access to the AI QFs. 6 winners from rd 4 complete the AI QF field.
This keeps prov championships, their lopsided nature is ciunter-balanced via wide access to rd 3, and more inter-prov pairings are possible between the stronger teams. Finally, to ensure all teams play a minimu 3 matches, make one SF in Muns and one in Conn a 'two legged' affair between teams of similar quality (to keep the wnd match interesting, no hammering in the 1st leg).
Finally, have pairings in Qual rd 1 intra-prov; rds 2 & 4 are seeded; with an 'FA Cup' style open draw in rds 3 and AI QFs.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2580 - 17/01/2015 19:12:46    1684106