So Seamus Moynihan says that pay-for-play would be unsustainable and would destroy the club game.

Paul Galvin comes out and says Amateurism is unsustainable because the players aren't seeing fiscal benefits of the Sky deal and similar commercialsm.

What's it to be?

Money will kill this whole thing. Kill it dead.

Gavvygavgav (Dublin) - Posts: 382 - 13/11/2014 12:59:58    1671958

I'm not against professionalism in the Gaa at all but I haven't seen any concrete figures yet to suggest that a fair full time professional model in the Gaa at inter county level is even remotely possible. Unless of course RTE, Sky Sports and the multiple sponsors are willing fork out tens of millions per year to sustain it.

Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 13/11/2014 13:52:32    1671978

There are only a few counties in Ireland that could support professionalism. Without massive growth abroad it will never happen.

JP91 (Armagh) - Posts: 316 - 13/11/2014 14:16:12    1671986

I said it was going to happen when sky got involved.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 13/11/2014 14:18:36    1671987

I am 100% supportive of Gaa players being paid.Have been for a long time.How and how much is open to debate.

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 13/11/2014 14:30:32    1671994

KingdomBoy1

I said it was going to happen when sky got involved.

What do you think will happen though, will every county player will become a full time pro? semi professionalism? semi professionalism but only for a select few counties?

Like which of those did/are you predicting to happen?

Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 13/11/2014 14:48:23    1671999

wont happen anytime soon
if it was going to happen it would have been a decade ago
when their was a boom in this country
and croke park was being filled 6 or 7 times a year
now the country is severly struggling economicaly
and apart from the hoo la baloo of sky sports introduction
their numbers were hugely below tv3 and they actually paid the same amount to get the matches
plus it would take an unseen amount to pay 32 counties with the panel of players and staff they have

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 13/11/2014 14:49:29    1672001

In order to sustain professionalism, A county team would need 10,000 attendance every 2 weeks for a minimum of 10-15 home games a season. For the likes of Leitrim, Sligo, Longford, Westmeath and Carlow,Fermanagh and a few others, this simply ain't going to happen. Aiden O Shea stated last year that some counties would have to merge. I don't think you could have more than 16 teams in hurling and 8 in football playing pro or semi pro, and that would be if it works. It could mean a pro league with certain counties and an amatuer with certain counties, similar to NZ rugby with their NPC (14 Pro teams) and the Heartland Championship (12 Amatuer teams). It would also require an AFL style competition with 20 - 25 home and away rounds as well as 4-5 weeks of finals. It would mean that players would play little if at all with their clubs if playing pro or semi pro.

Would Sligo and Leitrim work as a merger. Especially if they were based in Sligo and never played in Leitrim. This would have to be handled carefully. This has been the case with welsh rugby clubs, and e.g the Cardiff blues are supposed to take in their former rival clubs such as brigend and pontypryidd. Cardiff Blues did not change their name, play only in Cardiff, and the two other clubs could not care about them and will not support them.

I can't see it working. GAA fans are conditioned to follow their team for 2-5 big games per year and to ignore all others. It would take a culture change that could not possibly change overnight. I have to agree with Seamus Moynihan in this case.

galwaydublin (Galway) - Posts: 226 - 13/11/2014 15:15:32    1672011

Its unrealistic at the moment, its easy for Galvin to come out and say it without mentioned what the financial implications are and where the money will come from.

I'm sure it will happen eventually if our games become more popular around the world and this leads to increased TV revenue.

As a poster above mentioned what about if 16 counties became professional with 2 counties getting relegated and promoted every year.
Financially how much would this cost? 25 players awarded 12 month contracts at 40,000 euro's a year. That's a million a county and 16 million overall. it will only lead to greed though, better players looking for more money, players moving counties looking for money etc

TheWestIsAwake (UK) - Posts: 529 - 13/11/2014 15:46:14    1672030

TheWestIsAwake

Its unrealistic at the moment, its easy for Galvin to come out and say it without mentioned what the financial implications are and where the money will come from.

Ye I agree, Galvin just basically said that professionalism will happen without presenting any sort of figures to back up his point of view, again I wouldn't be against professionalism but I think there isn't nearly enough money at present to sustain a fair, fully professional Gaa.

I don't like the idea of say 16 counties becoming professional because you'd have a very unfair Gaa then plus good players from weaker counties would want out asap so they could make a living playing Gaa.

Certainly in football every team would have to go semi pro at least to ensure talented players from weaker counties wouldn't move on, maybe even ban transfers, as for Hurling, well all Liam McCarthey cup teams would have to pro and many of the Christy Ring cup teams would need to be semi pro aswell. My point being that you'd need well above and beyond €16m per year to sustain fair professionalism, could be as high as €50m+.......which ain't gonna happen!

Htaem (Meath) - Posts: 8657 - 13/11/2014 16:19:37    1672042

Look at rugby in Ireland and you will see straight away any talk of full time professionalism is a complete non-runner in Ireland.

Rugby can only barely support 4 teams in Ireland, and that's with a huge chunk of the wage bills of the Irish teams being paid for by the European competitions and the international competitions, which are reliant on French and English television rights (a joint market of 100+ million plus)

That's before you go near the clusterfeck of other issues professionalism would open up like employment law, pensions, damage to the club game,increased ticket prices. Basically full-time professionalism would be a nuclear bomb to the heart of the GAA.

besidetheditch (Dublin) - Posts: 81 - 13/11/2014 16:22:17    1672046

This is why i feel some counties will amalgamate in future.To even up every players chances of winning,and also to make paying players more realistic.Less teams,less cost.Laugh at this idea now lads and lassies,but remember he who laughs last,laughs loudest.

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 13/11/2014 16:24:34    1672048

Professionalism will not work. Full stop.
Jesus you'd think in this country by this stage we'd be more wary about throwing good money after bad. I'm not saying county players don't deserve to be financially rewarded somehow, but the idea of an entirely professional league type system is so far fanciful we may as well be talking about playing matches on the moon.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9136 - 13/11/2014 16:33:00    1672051

galwaydublin

what gives you the idea that you could have 16 teams in hurling and 8 in football
surely it would be the other way around
as theres not even 16 teams in hurling in the liam mccarthy as we speak

hill16no1man (Dublin) - Posts: 12665 - 13/11/2014 17:13:00    1672073

It maybe fanciful to you lockjaw,but to others such as myself,it is not so fanciful at all.

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 13/11/2014 17:16:44    1672074

I'm all for pay for play. But I can't see it happening anytime soon , not cause of ideology or ethos. Its just the money ain'tthere to ssustain 32 counties. Even at semi pro level. We all know most managers are paid in a nodge nodge wink wink type of way for a long time

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 13/11/2014 17:32:33    1672078

Professional Football

Super 12 professional Teams (Centrally contracted, U21's played as current intercounty and 26 player panels picked from counties below)
2 Connaught, 3 Munster, 3 Ulster, 4 Leinster
1. Mayo/Sligo/Leitrim
2. Galway/Roscommon
3. Kerry
4.(Cork/Waterford),
5.(Tipp/Clare/Limerick),
6.(Donegal/Derry/Antrim),
7.(Tyrone/Fermanagh/Cavan),
8.(Monaghan/Armagh/Down)
9.(Louth/Meath/Longford/Westmeath),
10. Dublin
11. (Wexford/Carlow, Wicklow, Killkenny, Offaly)
12. (Laois/Kildare)

Matches played in Croke Park, Pairc Ui Chaoimh, Casement and New stadium in Galway. Each team has plays 22 matches in season = 253 + 5 play off games = 259 matches @ 10,000 average crowd per match = 2.59m paying customers x €10 entry fee = €26 m
TV rights = €15m + sponshorship/media fees (all players centrally contracted) = €25m
Total Income €50m

Total Player Wages €25m + €15m on running teams = total of €40m

Leaves €10m for ground maintenance and youth development.

Let the sky deal do its magic in the UK, add two teams from the UK and you have a viable product.

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1109 - 13/11/2014 18:27:16    1672095

tirawleybaron, while I'm very much in favour of regional teams you're failing to take demographics into account - yes, Kerry have wonderfull tradition and that ensures a level of competitiveness but when you look at the demographics we're talking about a county that's the same size as Mayo or Donegal. There has to be a better way. Simply glueing counties together may not work.

As for professionalism - it just cheapens the game. I used to be a very passionate Liverpool FC supporter but I can no longer stomach the Sky game or the muppets that support their 'superstars' with hard-earned money. Loyalty to the club or your roots means nothing anymore. These men are mercenaries. Who do you support? Man U or Liverpool? What's your favourite cola? Pepsi or Coke? Do you really want to see your local team turned into a brand because that's the reality we're looking at?

HighKing81 (Meath) - Posts: 129 - 13/11/2014 19:21:27    1672109

tirawleybaron, Just a few quick observations. This "viable product" as you call it will be the death knell of our games. If you take the GAA out of its roots then the clubs will be destroyed. It's not as if we don't have club V county issues as it is. What about the rest of the counties? Do they just comprise the remains of the GAA while this new franchise/ super pro sets up its game. You can forget about amalgamations for a start. That will never happen.This in my view would be the GAA's version of the road to perdition.

lilywhite1 (Kildare) - Posts: 2990 - 13/11/2014 19:27:57    1672110

Tiwraleybaron,you are on the right path i believe.

cuederocket (Dublin) - Posts: 5084 - 13/11/2014 19:54:48    1672117