In the wake of what was a turgid, yet oddly fascinating, All-Ireland football final, the voice of Joe Brolly was once again the one that shouted loudest. Apparently, this is a system that is going to be aped up and down the country (I do not disagree with this), and apparently this is going to be the future for Gaelic Football. Some feel the game is ruined. I'm willing to contest this second point.

Firstly, yes, I think many, many clubs and counties around the country will indeed ape this system. Brolly was correct to say that many of these teams will look at that system and say 'we can do this'. But can they really?

In the aftermath of Tyrone and Armagh's success, many counties did indeed try to play negative football, based on stopping the opposition. For the vast, vast majority (basically, everybody bar Tyrone and Armagh) it ended up the same way as it ever did. Without success, and without credibility. What many of these teams, and many analysts, failed to mention was that Tyrone and Armagh were able to couple this incredibly disciplined defending with superb attacking play. There seemed to be such an agenda out there to strip these teams of any credit that nobody seemed willing to point this out. In 2003, Tyrone were lambasted for playing some putrid football, and to be honest, a lot of it was justified. It was not justified in 2005 and 2008, where they played a brand of total football, with staunch resistance married with irresistable counter-attack.

Donegal were rightly decried for their awful style of football in 2011, but in 2012 they were actually quite fantastic. Their semi-final with Cork was acclaimed, and rightly so. They crushed Cork with a mixture of zombee like defending, and ruthless counter-attack. Again, many teams missed the point. Cavan and Fermanagh played out a particularly awful Ulster Championship lacking any kind of invention the following year. Defensive play was being aped, but attacking play was not.

This year, we were treated to three glorious All-Ireland semi-finals. Donegal and Kerry were virtually different teams in these matches to what they were weeks later. Donegal destroyed Dublin with play harking back to their 2012 semi-final. They left Dublin humiliated with their familiar combination play. But for the final, they seemed to push attack to one side. Probably on the presumption that Kerry could just be stifled, as they have been for years. But Eamonn Fitzmaurice has now made Kerry arguably the best team in the country at negative football. It's a discipline that the Kingdom have now mastered, in a complete role reversal.

Donegal sat back and sat back. But the mistakes were not forthcoming from the Kingdom. It was Donegal who cracked first. Now, 4 points down, they had to try something different. They reeled off three consecutive points with relative ease. Donegal have underestimated themselves in terms of their attack, and I think everybody else has too. The lesson from this game may come from these few minutes, as opposed to what preceded it.

If they had stuck with their semi-final game, I believe they would have won. Ironically, the system, once branded unbeatable, was what destroyed them. In 2011, When Kerry passed the ball back and over along their half back line, Dublin took them on, and won a game that they shouldn't. On Sunday, Kerry could afford to do that, because Donegal stook too rigidly to their defensive plan. They did not push up. They should have.

Teams looking at this final need to think outside the box. Was this final the example of how it should be done? Or an example of what shouldn't be done. Are there more positive lessons to be learned from the semi-finals than the final? Perhaps...

Treaty_Exile (Limerick) - Posts: 386 - 25/09/2014 11:47:53    1656849

Most teams in my opinion are better off to playing a more attacking style.I can understand teams who are massive underdogs going defensively but teams playing against teams of their own level should be going out to out to attack first and foremost.

Any form of overly defensive strategy relies on the opposition making mistakes as you are inviting them to attack you. Donegal were brilliant against Dublin but in fairness Dublin let them off the hook, they missed 2 good goal chances in the first half and kicked some very poor wides in the second half which ordinarily they would have scored.

Playing positively is the way to go as it puts control of the game in your own hands but playing attacking football doesn't mean a team should forget how to defend properly.

Did Brolly suggest anything to cure the game of overly defensive styles that he sees all counties implementing?

uibhfhaili1986 (Offaly) - Posts: 1296 - 25/09/2014 13:18:30    1656899

I always said that most of the criticism Armagh, Tyrone and Donegal got was more to do with geography than actual style of play. There was some real bitter, begrudging stuff that came their way, mostly it has to be said from outside Ulster and from Kerry in particular. It always smacked of sour grapes and a rabid antipathy to SAM going North. Kerry fully deserved their victory on Sunday but this nonsense that they always win dancing pirouettes and ghosting skillfully around the opposition while playing harps is a complete insult. Kerry can mix it with anyone and are as cynical and streetwise as any of the top Ulster sides over the past decade. I am not condemning them for it, because you have to able to change strategy, just don't treat us all like fools by pretending that Kerry and Dublin don't engage in the dark arts when they have to.

Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9701 - 25/09/2014 14:18:13    1656923

good post treaty both objective and informative

fabio8 (USA) - Posts: 2182 - 25/09/2014 15:27:11    1656947

Ulsterman
County: Antrim
Posts: 7039

1656923
I always said that most of the criticism Armagh, Tyrone and Donegal got was more to do with geography than actual style of play. There was some real bitter, begrudging stuff that came their way, mostly it has to be said from outside Ulster and from Kerry in particular. It always smacked of sour grapes and a rabid antipathy to SAM going North. Kerry fully deserved their victory on Sunday but this nonsense that they always win dancing pirouettes and ghosting skillfully around the opposition while playing harps is a complete insult. Kerry can mix it with anyone and are as cynical and streetwise as any of the top Ulster sides over the past decade. I am not condemning them for it, because you have to able to change strategy, just don't treat us all like fools by pretending that Kerry and Dublin don't engage in the dark arts when they have to.

As you can probably gather from my OP, I don't necessarily disagree with you. But I think you've missed the point.

Firstly, anyone and everyone is criticising the style of play that was on show last Sunday. VERY few people are pretending that Kerry played good football, and those who are still in dreamland should be ignored because they're obviously wrong.

The point that I'm trying to make is that the gameplan that Donegal went with was the wrong one. They ignored, or at least partly neglected, one of their main weapons: their counter-attacking. That's what unscrewed the Dubs. On the evidence of what we saw in the later stages of the match, where they scored with relative ease, it would have beaten Kerry too. Even if Kerry had played with an emphasis on attack, and they certainly can, I'm of the opinion that Donegal would have won, based on what I saw late on. We also saw a major flaw in the Donegal system as Kerry tried to run down the clock.

The likelihood is that the way Kerry and Donegal played last Sunday will be looked at by the majority as the way to go. The better managers, who think outside the box and don't feel constrained by the main thought of that time, will look to the semi-finals, where Donegal and Kerry both produced their best performances, and they will see that Donegal's system was actually what destroyed them in the final, and that it could have been won by not neglecting the counter-attack.

Treaty_Exile (Limerick) - Posts: 386 - 25/09/2014 16:30:21    1656967

well donegal werent able to succesfully counteract due to being flat for some reason plus also kerry had large amounts of players back at all times which was able to stifle their running game

fabio8 (USA) - Posts: 2182 - 25/09/2014 16:46:08    1656972

The way the game is played now by certain counties will continue to grow, simply because NO RULES are bring broken. Primary job for all defenders is to stop the opposing forwards from scoring. There is no rule stating that all tackles have to be one on one, or that forwards cannot come back to defend. In Championship football the object is WINNING, not playing pretty football. Unfortunately these templates for success are proving fruitful, and in future will be adapted by more and more teams.

martinprince (Tyrone) - Posts: 187 - 25/09/2014 17:01:25    1656984

Treaty I would suggest the problem for Donegal was that for their counter-attacking system to work there is one fundamental requirement which is the opposition must attack in numbers. 2014 Dublin did but 2011 Dublin and Sundays Kerry didnt. When this happens there is stalemate and the team with the better footballers generally wins.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 25/09/2014 17:06:14    1656986

Excellent post Treaty with lots of food for thought.

Winning football takes priority over entertaining football most of the time.

Only Dublin ticked both boxes consistently over the past few seasons.

They'll do so again I think come next year and football will be"saved" despite Joe Brolly's predictions.

Just an opinion

RoyalBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 198 - 25/09/2014 17:12:11    1656989

at end of day you will still win nothing if you dont have top forwards to do the scoring or in donegals case multiple players capable of running through teams and scoring as well as decent inside forwards when their on form..mcfadden in 2012 as good as anybody

fabio8 (USA) - Posts: 2182 - 25/09/2014 17:13:22    1656990

Better defenses should only improve attacks. The standard of attacking football is often very poor and reliant on a piece of magic from someone to produce the goods. No matter how good the defense is, if you provide good forwards making clever runs with accurate passes and then have men running off the shoulder then you will do damage. The standard of early ball in on Sunday was poor (Donegal are lacking playmakers and that has been exposed by teams playing defensively and stopping runners having success against us)

The better the defenses, the better the attacks will have to be to beat them.

benjyyy (Donegal) - Posts: 1422 - 25/09/2014 17:45:42    1657000

Ulsterman change the bloody record bud! The fact a lot of people criticised yhe ulster teams you mentioned had nothing got to do with geographical location its was the style of football they were playing! NEGATIVE FOOTBALL! The fact that they were ulster teams is just coincidental! Big chip on your shoulder as always! Sure haven't a lot of people on hs criticised kerry for their negativity last Sunday ' people only react to what they see geography doesn't come into it!

DUBJOHN (Dublin) - Posts: 932 - 25/09/2014 18:31:52    1657017

DUBJOHN

Maybe you should take your own advice and change the record. It is you who describe it as NEGATIVE. In my view 'negative' would be a team going out trying NOT to win - that is not the case.

In 2003 Tyrone were quite defensive in the semi final and final being on the verge of their 1st ever Al-Ireland its more than understandable. But in all the other games that year they were blowing teams away and had by far the highest scoring average in the country. 0-17 against Derry, 1-17 against Antrim, 1-17 against Down and then 0-23 in the replay. Then 1-21 against Fermanagh in the 1/4 final. How on earth can that be described as defensive?!

benjyyy (Donegal) - Posts: 1422 - 25/09/2014 18:43:50    1657024

Great post Treaty and you raise some interesting points. I think the game is going to evolve at a more rapid pace in the future. It is no longer any good going out with the same game plan that you used in previous matches. If these young coaches like Fitzmaurice and McGuinness get a look at your system/style of play, then they will devise a way to beat it. The thing about the blanket defence is that it takes a lot of courage for a manager to implement it and a lot of effort from the players to stick with it.

JimTheLegend (Donegal) - Posts: 247 - 25/09/2014 19:36:28    1657045

Donegal sat back and sat back. But the mistakes were not forthcoming from the Kingdom. It was Donegal who cracked first. Now, 4 points down, they had to try something different. They reeled off three consecutive points with relative ease. Donegal have underestimated themselves in terms of their attack, and I think everybody else has too. The lesson from this game may come from these few minutes, as opposed to what preceded it.

Agree with this point. People will argue that there are better footballers all over the place but if I had Paddy McBrearty, Michael Murphy and Colm McFadden available to me, I would be confident that no matter what another team did to me, these lads would get me through.

bennybunny (Cork) - Posts: 3917 - 25/09/2014 19:37:46    1657046

Good post and fairly put across too.

I think that there will be more of the same next year, with the difference being a change in styles on particular days to outwit certain oppositions.

I think that we really need to look at being more assertive and ambitious getting the ball forward. The counter attack against kerry was labored. We will have to learn from this and do something about it.

Dublin on the other hand will tighten up at the back.

Kerry will have their best men back so it will be very interesting indeed to see what they get going

Mayo god only knows.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3830 - 25/09/2014 19:53:16    1657050

Armagh and Tyrone are coming from the North.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7838 - 25/09/2014 20:04:05    1657053

That's why I asked the question last night do Donegal always have to be so defensive when you have forwards like that? I think besides playing Dublin and Mayo, Donegal could go man to man with any other team and win, like playing Kerry suited Kerry more to go defensive than Donegal cause IMO Donegal have the better players. I accept Donegal's blanket defence has got them all there success but do they have to do it every game?

clondalkindub (Dublin) - Posts: 9926 - 25/09/2014 20:12:40    1657059

Donegal pride of all
We in Donegal have been kicked about the place by unemployment, fading industry, social problems, poverty and growing social problems. But there is a greatness that has never gone away. And there is a further greatness being thrust into our hands, provided we emulate the remarkable teams celebrated on our front page.
The Minor and Senior games did not go to script. In the final match I would argue the better team didn't win as there wasen't a better team. BOTH were off form. But this is it-for whatever reason Donegal were off their their very fine form. We lost the match.
It won't harm the county in any way. We've matured along the journey, and every single player and team member did their county proud. They are fine men. Jim McGuinness isin't God, just an amazing man and person. JIM, of all people knows the real world and what real tragedy means.
""But it is still" Donegal pride of all"" in 1992 we were shocked to be in Croke park at all In 2012 we kind of scampered into the park Sunday we went in the front door as a strong , Mature County. We'll be back""

Exactly.
We'll be back.

First post since I came back to London and saw the above in a local community paper in Donegal.

But to Kerry people :::::: CONGRATULATIONS. It's all about winning and that's what ye done. To Kingdom boy Legendzxix and the Hermit hope yous enjoyed it all
Roll on the Ulster championship.

SamOnErrigal (Donegal) - Posts: 1427 - 25/09/2014 21:15:01    1657075

I know people will say otherwise but I think the system used by McGuinness allowed him to hide a number of mediocre footballers. Look at the manner in which Geaney was destroying McGrath on Sunday - the effort at defending for the first goal was abysmal. Similar problems were exposed in Ulster where Donegal were giving up goal chances against limited attacks. In my opinion that is why they could not push up on Kerry Sunday even when losing by 3 with only minutes to go. It works for them most days because they are very strong in the middle of the field with a couple of excellent forwards.

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2630 - 25/09/2014 21:24:44    1657078